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Post by DropThePuck on Nov 14, 2014 14:52:20 GMT -4
The problem with that is that you deplete an already weak cupboard(top 2 d-men and top 6 forwards non Euro or 20) won't come cheap. Those two big pieces alone will cost the 3-4 best assets available...2015 1st, 2016 1st, Leger plus probably Sweeney at the draft. It still leaves you with a team that could lose in round 1 or round 2 and give you another 3-4 year rebuild. Yup ... you've been saying that for 5 years ... but here we are again looking at contending. Shit can happen in the playoffs ... but you can't step back because you are afraid to fail. That is a pessimistic attitude that will get you an annual mid-pack ranking ... an attitude that you seem to love to go through life with. I don't think this team is anywhere as good as our championship teams of the past ... but neither is anybody else in the Q right now ... not a big year for the Q. The top teams are all beatable ... right now. And let me get this straight ... to avoid another 3 or 4 year rebuild ... you want us to step back and sell ... making this current rebuild a 3 or 4 year process. Is that what you are suggesting ... avoid a 3-4 year rebuild by rebuilding for 3-4 years. Very well said! Couldn't agree more....
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Post by lirette on Nov 14, 2014 15:09:38 GMT -4
Give these guys a better collective team system and make the players more accountable for their effort and you have a different team. I'm not saying they should be scared of making mistakes, or shouldn't be creative, but right now, the balance has tipped on the other side and there are way too many individual efforts. And the forwards are often out of position when they don't have the puck. I agree defensively they have been a mess for sure but you don't think Rumbles holding the players accountable? He's benched nearly every top player on this team,including garland who was bench 9 games ago and has been on a tear since. Something that's been a nice change since the Flynn days when the Saulniers would do their disappearing act but still be on the ice 25 minutes a game.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 14, 2014 16:42:26 GMT -4
The problem with that is that you deplete an already weak cupboard(top 2 d-men and top 6 forwards non Euro or 20) won't come cheap. Those two big pieces alone will cost the 3-4 best assets available...2015 1st, 2016 1st, Leger plus probably Sweeney at the draft. It still leaves you with a team that could lose in round 1 or round 2 and give you another 3-4 year rebuild. You have to consider how this team uses its picks (dont need high picks for Americans) and even teams that sell take 3-4 years to rebuild. ...and since they started going crazy on US players their drafting has been worse, not better. She was a bust and most others have not lived up to the hype. You can include Askew in that in that he cost 2 draft picks and they called him "like having a 1st round pick" this year.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 14, 2014 16:51:46 GMT -4
The problem with that is that you deplete an already weak cupboard(top 2 d-men and top 6 forwards non Euro or 20) won't come cheap. Those two big pieces alone will cost the 3-4 best assets available...2015 1st, 2016 1st, Leger plus probably Sweeney at the draft. It still leaves you with a team that could lose in round 1 or round 2 and give you another 3-4 year rebuild. Yup ... you've been saying that for 5 years ... but here we are again looking at contending. Shit can happen in the playoffs ... but you can't step back because you are afraid to fail. That is a pessimistic attitude that will get you an annual mid-pack ranking ... an attitude that you seem to love to go through life with. I don't think this team is anywhere as good as our championship teams of the past ... but neither is anybody else in the Q right now ... not a big year for the Q. The top teams are all beatable ... right now. And let me get this straight ... to avoid another 3 or 4 year rebuild ... you want us to step back and sell ... making this current rebuild a 3 or 4 year process. Is that what you are suggesting ... avoid a 3-4 year rebuild by rebuilding for 3-4 years. Go look at the situation 2 years ago and I see a pretty clear parallel with this year's team. It's not about being pessimistic, it's about living in the real world. Beating up on Bathurst Halifax and young teams like Charlotteown and CB is one thing, but competing with teams like Quebec(once they get Duclair and make a few moves) Sherbrooke BBA and Gatineau. I think Rimouski is going to be a powerhouse, they are already 15-6-2 minus some big pieces in a tough division. Add in guys like Morin and Gauthier who have both missed 80% of games so far this year...plus Joly and Dunn are just starting to play up to par. They already have 2 powerful lines and a strong top 4 on D before any deals are made. Gatineau just filled a huge hole by adding Whitney. The cupboards here are already pretty bare, why trade away what's left based on a "hope" that everything falls in place(see 2013 playoffs).
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 14, 2014 16:56:36 GMT -4
Give these guys a better collective team system and make the players more accountable for their effort and you have a different team. I'm not saying they should be scared of making mistakes, or shouldn't be creative, but right now, the balance has tipped on the other side and there are way too many individual efforts. And the forwards are often out of position when they don't have the puck. I don't think the system is the problem, you don't have a very good group on defense and a lot of the forwards are 1 way players, no system will fix that, especially against top teams.
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 14, 2014 17:06:24 GMT -4
Yup ... you've been saying that for 5 years ... but here we are again looking at contending. Shit can happen in the playoffs ... but you can't step back because you are afraid to fail. That is a pessimistic attitude that will get you an annual mid-pack ranking ... an attitude that you seem to love to go through life with. I don't think this team is anywhere as good as our championship teams of the past ... but neither is anybody else in the Q right now ... not a big year for the Q. The top teams are all beatable ... right now. And let me get this straight ... to avoid another 3 or 4 year rebuild ... you want us to step back and sell ... making this current rebuild a 3 or 4 year process. Is that what you are suggesting ... avoid a 3-4 year rebuild by rebuilding for 3-4 years. Go look at the situation 2 years ago and I see a pretty clear parallel with this year's team. It's not about being pessimistic, it's about living in the real world. Beating up on Bathurst Halifax and young teams like Charlotteown and CB is one thing, but competing with teams like Quebec(once they get Duclair and make a few moves) Sherbrooke BBA and Gatineau. I think Rimouski is going to be a powerhouse, they are already 15-6-2 minus some big pieces in a tough division. Add in guys like Morin and Gauthier who have both missed 80% of games so far this year...plus Joly and Dunn are just starting to play up to par. They already have 2 powerful lines and a strong top 4 on D before any deals are made. Gatineau just filled a huge hole by adding Whitney. The cupboards here are already pretty bare, why trade away what's left based on a "hope" that everything falls in place(see 2013 playoffs). But to do what you want to do is that same 3-4 year rebuild that you said you didn't want. You make no sense.
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Post by mooseinfo on Nov 14, 2014 17:26:00 GMT -4
You have to consider how this team uses its picks (dont need high picks for Americans) and even teams that sell take 3-4 years to rebuild. ...and since they started going crazy on US players their drafting has been worse, not better. She was a bust and most others have not lived up to the hype. You can include Askew in that in that he cost 2 draft picks and they called him "like having a 1st round pick" this year. Pretty easy blanket statement. How many players from this last draft are playing for the Moose! How many from the draft before are lighting it up with the Moose!!! Like someone said you make no sense.
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Post by forrest on Nov 14, 2014 18:04:35 GMT -4
Give these guys a better collective team system and make the players more accountable for their effort and you have a different team. I'm not saying they should be scared of making mistakes, or shouldn't be creative, but right now, the balance has tipped on the other side and there are way too many individual efforts. And the forwards are often out of position when they don't have the puck. I don't think the system is the problem, you don't have a very good group on defense and a lot of the forwards are 1 way players, no system will fix that, especially against top teams. The defense is always going to look bad when trying to get the puck out when the forwards don't move around to create open lanes. That is when they throw it out of the zone against the glass and give the puck away, or try a high risk individual play that often leads to a turnover. The forwards are often not moving enough to make the first pass an option for the D. That IMO comes from the system. The defense is always going to look bad when trying to get back the puck in their zone when forwards are allowed to take extra long shifts and not backcheck as fast as they can. We still see certain forwards doing that. That is a team concept and players should be held accountable to those values. The defense is also going to look bad offensively when the team is disorganized in the offensive zone or everytime they jump in the offense and have none of the forwards cover their position. Those who think Flynn was lucky to always have solid defensemen should maybe consider he was part responsible for developing them and giving them a team system where they could succeed. Also, Moncton is terrible defensively this year, yet they didn't keep Mark Simpson around... A guy with size who was good defensively with an offensive upside. Very questionable decision if you ask me. Personally, I think the product on the ice is entertaining and is fun to watch. I feel like I'm getting my money's worth. But I don't think this team is going to get anywhere near a championship with the decisions they make and the style they play.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 14, 2014 18:27:39 GMT -4
Go look at the situation 2 years ago and I see a pretty clear parallel with this year's team. It's not about being pessimistic, it's about living in the real world. Beating up on Bathurst Halifax and young teams like Charlotteown and CB is one thing, but competing with teams like Quebec(once they get Duclair and make a few moves) Sherbrooke BBA and Gatineau. I think Rimouski is going to be a powerhouse, they are already 15-6-2 minus some big pieces in a tough division. Add in guys like Morin and Gauthier who have both missed 80% of games so far this year...plus Joly and Dunn are just starting to play up to par. They already have 2 powerful lines and a strong top 4 on D before any deals are made. Gatineau just filled a huge hole by adding Whitney. The cupboards here are already pretty bare, why trade away what's left based on a "hope" that everything falls in place(see 2013 playoffs). But to do what you want to do is that same 3-4 year rebuild that you said you didn't want. You make no sense. I never said I would take 3-4 years to rebuild, but I would move 2-3 big pieces and set the team up for 4-5 years of pretty strong teams.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 14, 2014 18:29:15 GMT -4
...and since they started going crazy on US players their drafting has been worse, not better. She was a bust and most others have not lived up to the hype. You can include Askew in that in that he cost 2 draft picks and they called him "like having a 1st round pick" this year. Pretty easy blanket statement. How many players from this last draft are playing for the Moose! How many from the draft before are lighting it up with the Moose!!! Like someone said you make no sense. If anybody doesn't make sense it's you...I never said anything about halifax or it's picks.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 14, 2014 18:32:39 GMT -4
I don't think the system is the problem, you don't have a very good group on defense and a lot of the forwards are 1 way players, no system will fix that, especially against top teams. The defense is always going to look bad when trying to get the puck out when the forwards don't move around to create open lanes. That is when they throw it out of the zone against the glass and give the puck away, or try a high risk individual play that often leads to a turnover. The forwards are often not moving enough to make the first pass an option for the D. That IMO comes from the system. The defense is always going to look bad when trying to get back the puck in their zone when forwards are allowed to take extra long shifts and not backcheck as fast as they can. We still see certain forwards doing that. That is a team concept and players should be held accountable to those values. The defense is also going to look bad offensively when the team is disorganized in the offensive zone or everytime they jump in the offense and have none of the forwards cover their position. Those who think Flynn was lucky to always have solid defensemen should maybe consider he was part responsible for developing them and giving them a team system where they could succeed. Also, Moncton is terrible defensively this year, yet they didn't keep Mark Simpson around... A guy with size who was good defensively with an offensive upside. Very questionable decision if you ask me. Personally, I think the product on the ice is entertaining and is fun to watch. I feel like I'm getting my money's worth. But I don't think this team is going to get anywhere near a championship with the decisions they make and the style they play. The issues I see with the defense is without the puck, they move the puck well enough. Guys like Malatesta Holwell and tassi can move the puck real well, but none of the 3 should be in your top 4 as a contender. Those 3 are pretty one dimensional, Holwell was ok defensively last year but seems to have regressed or at least not progressed... Guys like Garland and Tkachev are good with the puck on their stick, not so much without it or defensively.
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Post by mooseinfo on Nov 14, 2014 19:43:40 GMT -4
Pretty easy blanket statement. How many players from this last draft are playing for the Moose! How many from the draft before are lighting it up with the Moose!!! Like someone said you make no sense. If anybody doesn't make sense it's you...I never said anything about halifax or it's picks. You are picking the last 2 yrs on Moncton(crazy on Americans, compare what most players do their first 2 yrs. Not much.
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 14, 2014 22:09:03 GMT -4
But to do what you want to do is that same 3-4 year rebuild that you said you didn't want. You make no sense. I never said I would take 3-4 years to rebuild, but I would move 2-3 big pieces and set the team up for 4-5 years of pretty strong teams. If you back off this year then you are into year 3 since our last attempt. I'm not sure why you don't see that. You clearly said you want to avoid 3 and 4 year rebuilds ... but backing off this year does exactly that.
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Post by emerz on Nov 14, 2014 22:22:00 GMT -4
If Tkachev/Barbashev are in sync, the Wildcats I think could easily win the league.
I think they just need some help on the back end and maybe some depth forwards, shouldn't be terribly expensive imo.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 14, 2014 23:02:12 GMT -4
I never said I would take 3-4 years to rebuild, but I would move 2-3 big pieces and set the team up for 4-5 years of pretty strong teams. If you back off this year then you are into year 3 since our last attempt. I'm not sure why you don't see that. You clearly said you want to avoid 3 and 4 year rebuilds ... but backing off this year does exactly that. The issue is that they never did a proper rebuild after the 2010 championship. They did it half assed and didn't have a true contender in 2013. Did you enjoy the 2013 attempt?
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