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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 14, 2014 23:05:19 GMT -4
If Tkachev/Barbashev are in sync, the Wildcats I think could easily win the league. I think they just need some help on the back end and maybe some depth forwards, shouldn't be terribly expensive imo. Getting 2 top 4 d-men would be terribly expensive. Plus they would need a #2 center, if barbashev was to miss any length of time they'd be crippled. A 1 line team will light up weak teams but against a powerhouse team, they'll shut taht line down and force others to beat them...Rimouski for example with Morin and Gauthier.
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Dugger
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 442
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Post by Dugger on Nov 14, 2014 23:41:27 GMT -4
Take a realistic look at the team, defensively they are a mess, it’s a crap shoot for the forwards to stay healthy at their size, Tkachev looks disinterested most nights (incredible talent) but he isn’t going to buy into anyone’s system if it doesn’t involve him doing his own thing. Dubeau has yet to find his stride this year, maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t but your hedging your bets with a goalie that has s**t the bed 2 out of 3 seasons he’s played when it counts. Now add to all this an incredible anaemic cupboard of assets from which to draw upon to get the players needed to plug holes to make this team a true contender and you have the recipe for disaster as happened two years ago that will have an even greater negative affect on the team as they go forward after this year.
I’m not saying this team sucks, all I’m saying is the team does not have the framework from which to build a solid contender with, the fact that the league is weaker (lack of a true powerhouse) than in past years shouldn’t be an incentive to “go” for it.
They cannot and should not sell the farm to bolster a mid-pack team.
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Post by Arnold Slick on Nov 14, 2014 23:56:41 GMT -4
The team is about as fun as we've seen in years and Garland is on one of the most impressive tears I can remember in a very long time. Yet I come on here and it's a whole lot of negativity. To each their own, but I choose to enjoy this because it's a heck of a lot of fun to watch.
I would agree that I don't see them winning a championship with the defensive play and Dubeau reverting back to his 2012/13 form, but a dark horse team that's fun to watch is exactly what I expected all along. Try and enjoy the ride!
For the record I don't see the Cats doing much of anything at the trade period. They've stated numerous times the goal is to have a competitive every year so I can't see them selling the farm. Nor do I see them selling off any significant assets. Maybe a tweak here and there, but probably nothing major. That said I wouldn't be shocked if I'm completely wrong either. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'm certainly not going to whine and cry about the trade period before it even happens though...
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Dugger
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 442
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Post by Dugger on Nov 15, 2014 0:50:20 GMT -4
The team is about as fun as we've seen in years and Garland is on one of the most impressive tears I can remember in a very long time. Yet I come on here and it's a whole lot of negativity. To each their own, but I choose to enjoy this because it's a heck of a lot of fun to watch. I would agree that I don't see them winning a championship with the defensive play and Dubeau reverting back to his 2012/13 form, but a dark horse team that's fun to watch is exactly what I expected all along. Try and enjoy the ride! For the record I don't see the Cats doing much of anything at the trade period. They've stated numerous times the goal is to have a competitive every year so I can't see them selling the farm. Nor do I see them selling off any significant assets. Maybe a tweak here and there, but probably nothing major. That said I wouldn't be shocked if I'm completely wrong either. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'm certainly not going to whine and cry about the trade period before it even happens though... No one is saying they aren't entertaining but there is no way they can be big time buyers because they lack the resources to do it properly, they only thing they would do is damage the team long term for fool hardy attempt at a run this year. The miscues at building a championship team over the past few years has been quite evident and that is what is driving some of the concerns this year as we approach the trade deadline, their track record over the past few years when it comes to decision making does not install confidence, I have a lot of unused playoff tickets that say I can whine and cry.
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Post by catnut on Nov 15, 2014 1:07:05 GMT -4
Take a realistic look at the team, defensively they are a mess, it’s a crap shoot for the forwards to stay healthy at their size, Tkachev looks disinterested most nights (incredible talent) but he isn’t going to buy into anyone’s system if it doesn’t involve him doing his own thing. Dubeau has yet to find his stride this year, maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t but your hedging your bets with a goalie that has s**t the bed 2 out of 3 seasons he’s played when it counts. Now add to all this an incredible anaemic cupboard of assets from which to draw upon to get the players needed to plug holes to make this team a true contender and you have the recipe for disaster as happened two years ago that will have an even greater negative affect on the team as they go forward after this year. I’m not saying this team sucks, all I’m saying is the team does not have the framework from which to build a solid contender with, the fact that the league is weaker (lack of a true powerhouse) than in past years shouldn’t be an incentive to “go” for it. They cannot and should not sell the farm to bolster a mid-pack team. That post sounded familiar... Here's one from around the same time in 2009 And they won that year without the only bright spot at forward in your opinion (KK) And here's one from 2012... almost predictable. There was probably a few posts like that in the fall of 2005 too. What would it take for you to consider them contenders? Would they need to be 20 or 30 points ahead? Have you ever felt the Cats could win a championship? Anyway, I'm just having a little fun with the quote function. I'm not saying they will or are positioned to do it, but they have the players to make noise, how much noise... time will tell. It will be up to management to decide what's on the table. I'm enjoying the ride from afar. They are fun to watch even if it's just on the net. Hopefully I'Ll catch a few games when I come down at Christmas.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 15, 2014 10:06:35 GMT -4
I agree that the team is exciting to watch, no doubt about that...but if I'm a fan I want a shot at a championship without having a team that sucks for 3 years after.
Right now is a tough spot, if you buy, then you deplete what is left of a cupboard that's not very well stocked. You have a couple 1st rounders that you can move and 2-3 good young players that have trade value and no No Trade Clause. If you go all out, you might suck for 4-5 years before contending(see Baie Comeau 6-7 years ago)
If you stand pat, you will be lucky to get to round 2 given the issues on defense and one way forwards, then after the season 4-5 of your best players are gone so next year will be a "down" year.
Selling will be hard because the owner hates it and the GM wants to compete every year, but by moving 2-3 big pieces you can re-stock the cupboards while adding to next year's team with a couple of 19 or 20 year olds as futures. Then in 1-2 years when you "go for it" you have enough assets that you're not leaving bare cupboards...
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Post by mooseinfo on Nov 15, 2014 10:48:06 GMT -4
I agree that the team is exciting to watch, no doubt about that...but if I'm a fan I want a shot at a championship without having a team that sucks for 3 years after. Right now is a tough spot, if you buy, then you deplete what is left of a cupboard that's not very well stocked. You have a couple 1st rounders that you can move and 2-3 good young players that have trade value and no No Trade Clause. If you go all out, you might suck for 4-5 years before contending(see Baie Comeau 6-7 years ago) If you stand pat, you will be lucky to get to round 2 given the issues on defense and one way forwards, then after the season 4-5 of your best players are gone so next year will be a "down" year. Selling will be hard because the owner hates it and the GM wants to compete every year, but by moving 2-3 big pieces you can re-stock the cupboards while adding to next year's team with a couple of 19 or 20 year olds as futures. Then in 1-2 years when you "go for it" you have enough assets that you're not leaving bare cupboards... By that logic they will never go for it. 1 to 2 yrs you likely wont be any better off, trading 2 to 3 big parts and not sucking will make it hard to get imports ready for that year. The 19 and 20s in return are likely gone and drafted players with picks wont be in prime. Yes you could trade them but to add to what. Most teams ready in 1 to 2 years have high end talent coming up in that time and bottom out to get the high picks. See BC last 3 years, sucking bad pays off treading water wont pay off short term.
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Post by ldub23 on Nov 15, 2014 12:17:29 GMT -4
I don't understand all of the negativity. Yes, your imports and 20 year-olds will leave after this season but those 5 are among the best in the league now.
Jeez, the Cats are 1 point behind the surprising Sea Dogs for first in the Maritimes division and some of the fans still see the sky as falling.
Danny Flynn may be gone but Roger Shannon is not a dope. I think Shannon will just tinker a bit during the Christmas trading period and see how far Barbashev, Tkachev, Dubeau, Lalonde and Talbot-Tassi can take this team in the playoffs.
Looking forward to next season, Connor Garland will be back to lead the offense. Stephen Johnson and Jacob Sweeney will likely be 2 of the 20 year-olds. Add a solid 1st round pick, a pair of high-end imports and a free agent goalie ... the Wildcats have a good track record of spending Mr. Irving's money well on Euros and goalies ... and Moncton still has a very good team.
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 15, 2014 12:19:40 GMT -4
I agree that the team is exciting to watch, no doubt about that...but if I'm a fan I want a shot at a championship without having a team that sucks for 3 years after. Right now is a tough spot, if you buy, then you deplete what is left of a cupboard that's not very well stocked. You have a couple 1st rounders that you can move and 2-3 good young players that have trade value and no No Trade Clause. If you go all out, you might suck for 4-5 years before contending(see Baie Comeau 6-7 years ago) If you stand pat, you will be lucky to get to round 2 given the issues on defense and one way forwards, then after the season 4-5 of your best players are gone so next year will be a "down" year. Selling will be hard because the owner hates it and the GM wants to compete every year, but by moving 2-3 big pieces you can re-stock the cupboards while adding to next year's team with a couple of 19 or 20 year olds as futures. Then in 1-2 years when you "go for it" you have enough assets that you're not leaving bare cupboards... We went all in 2 years ago (2012-2013) and failed. You told us it would be 4 or 5 years before we could be competitive again because the cupboards were bare and we were building a team with 3rd rd picks and worse. But here we are again just two seasons later ... and following a down season from an entertaining team ... we are the top offensive team in the Q (how did that happen with bare cupboards) ... we need to improve defensively ... and we are on a tear right now while missing twò 100 pt (potential) players. You are a fear monger and a pessimist. You are also a coward when it comes to running a hockey team ... and pretty archaic in your thinking when it comes to building a team. Our Wildcat hockey staff has put this team back together with just one down season (that was very entertaining). This league is weak this year ... and that is why we are a top team. But so what ... we have as good a chance as any team right now ... so we might as well strike while conditions are right Keep blathering on about the way to build a team ... your chicken shit approach isn't the only way. This team is actually heavy on good young players that will be back next year. We will lose some stars ... some great players in the history of this team ... all the more reason to strike now. But next year we will still be a good team ... with additions from off-season acquistions ... and all will be well ... not the doomsday prophecy you continually spout. If they do decide to go for it ... I hope you choose to boycott the rest of the season in protest of the mismanagement. Please please boycott this team and any discussion of them. Why are you so full of hate ? I know you say you "call a spade a spade" ... but you love to wallow in the negative ... rarely discussing the positive. You have no interest talking about Garland's tear ... you'd rather talk about his poor play away from the puck ... but you also won't admit that he has improved there also. This team is exciting to watch ... with two 100 pt guys out of the lineup. They can beat any team in the league any night ... and in a best of 7 ... but they can also have some stinker periods and stinker games. That is something they can work on going forward. Nobody said they'd be perfect. The only reason I think this team should go for it is because the rest of the Q is no better. If there was a dominant team this year then i'd be less inclined to want to roll the dice. Ok ... lets here you spout more negative drivel ... coward.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Nov 15, 2014 13:15:54 GMT -4
I agree that the team is exciting to watch, no doubt about that...but if I'm a fan I want a shot at a championship without having a team that sucks for 3 years after. Right now is a tough spot, if you buy, then you deplete what is left of a cupboard that's not very well stocked. You have a couple 1st rounders that you can move and 2-3 good young players that have trade value and no No Trade Clause. If you go all out, you might suck for 4-5 years before contending(see Baie Comeau 6-7 years ago) If you stand pat, you will be lucky to get to round 2 given the issues on defense and one way forwards, then after the season 4-5 of your best players are gone so next year will be a "down" year. Selling will be hard because the owner hates it and the GM wants to compete every year, but by moving 2-3 big pieces you can re-stock the cupboards while adding to next year's team with a couple of 19 or 20 year olds as futures. Then in 1-2 years when you "go for it" you have enough assets that you're not leaving bare cupboards... We went all in 2 years ago (2012-2013) and failed. You told us it would be 4 or 5 years before we could be competitive again because the cupboards were bare and we were building a team with 3rd rd picks and worse. But here we are again just two seasons later ... and following a down season from an entertaining team ... we are the top offensive team in the Q (how did that happen with bare cupboards) ... we need to improve defensively ... and we are on a tear right now while missing twò 100 pt (potential) players. You are a fear monger and a pessimist. You are also a coward when it comes to running a hockey team ... and pretty archaic in your thinking when it comes to building a team. Our Wildcat hockey staff has put this team back together with just one down season (that was very entertaining). This league is weak this year ... and that is why we are a top team. But so what ... we have as good a chance as any team right now ... so we might as well strike while conditions are right Keep blathering on about the way to build a team ... your chicken shit approach isn't the only way. This team is actually heavy on good young players that will be back next year. We will lose some stars ... some great players in the history of this team ... all the more reason to strike now. But next year we will still be a good team ... with additions from off-season acquistions ... and all will be well ... not the doomsday prophecy you continually spout. If they do decide to go for it ... I hope you choose to boycott the rest of the season in protest of the mismanagement. Please please boycott this team and any discussion of them. Why are you so full of hate ? I know you say you "call a spade a spade" ... but you love to wallow in the negative ... rarely discussing the positive. You have no interest talking about Garland's tear ... you'd rather talk about his poor play away from the puck ... but you also won't admit that he has improved there also. This team is exciting to watch ... with two 100 pt guys out of the lineup. They can beat any team in the league any night ... and in a best of 7 ... but they can also have some stinker periods and stinker games. That is something they can work on going forward. Nobody said they'd be perfect. The only reason I think this team should go for it is because the rest of the Q is no better. If there was a dominant team this year then i'd be less inclined to want to roll the dice. Ok ... lets here you spout more negative drivel ... coward. I will play devils advocate here (as in, side with Billy lol). I am not saying you shouldn't go for it as the league really lacks a clear favourite and has an extra spot in the Memorial Cup available. Moncton are in that conversation of teams that with a couple strong moves could actually put themselves in the finals. I think where he is coming from is, he wants to focus on building a team (like SJ, like HFX) that grows into 2-3 strong, contending seasons without a long rebuild period to get back on top again. A team that can afford to add a star player or two without destroying all rebuilding assets. I think he (rightfully) was concerned with the decision to go for it a couple years ago when they could have sold instead of bought and maybe be legit favourites right now. This team of yours now is exciting and in contender talk, but an attempt at a title is still a big gamble and sets you back again. I think the concern here is that like in 2012, the Moncton strategy has been like the dog in "Up" that gets quickly distracted by "SQUIRREL!" You set out to build the team back out, but suddenly you find yourself in a situation that is appealing, so you sort of abandon what everyone wanted a year ago for short term excitement. You scream at Billy for projecting fear etc, but isn't it EXACTLY what happened in 2012? Too many holes, not enough assets to trade to fill them, and a terrible playoff failure and back to a rebuild (although luckily it has worked out somewhat with the league this year). I am not taking sides either way - I get the sensible reason to make a run this year given the guys on the roster and who will likely be gone next year - but I don't know if aiming to get a spot in the finals and perhaps an embarrassing Memorial Cup appearance if you aren't that good should be the main goal of the organization. I think Billy just doesn't want to see another 2012 type season happen - which if I remember correctly, he was one of the few actually concerned with the make-up of the team that year. I am sure he is just seeing a strong possibility for the same result because of the needs and the lack of assets to fill them to make a serious run at a league title.
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Post by WildcatMapleLeafs on Nov 15, 2014 13:25:05 GMT -4
Why not let the team play and re-evaluate come Christmas time.
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Post by catnut on Nov 15, 2014 13:42:50 GMT -4
We went all in 2 years ago (2012-2013) and failed. You told us it would be 4 or 5 years before we could be competitive again because the cupboards were bare and we were building a team with 3rd rd picks and worse. But here we are again just two seasons later ... and following a down season from an entertaining team ... we are the top offensive team in the Q (how did that happen with bare cupboards) ... we need to improve defensively ... and we are on a tear right now while missing twò 100 pt (potential) players. You are a fear monger and a pessimist. You are also a coward when it comes to running a hockey team ... and pretty archaic in your thinking when it comes to building a team. Our Wildcat hockey staff has put this team back together with just one down season (that was very entertaining). This league is weak this year ... and that is why we are a top team. But so what ... we have as good a chance as any team right now ... so we might as well strike while conditions are right Keep blathering on about the way to build a team ... your chicken shit approach isn't the only way. This team is actually heavy on good young players that will be back next year. We will lose some stars ... some great players in the history of this team ... all the more reason to strike now. But next year we will still be a good team ... with additions from off-season acquistions ... and all will be well ... not the doomsday prophecy you continually spout. If they do decide to go for it ... I hope you choose to boycott the rest of the season in protest of the mismanagement. Please please boycott this team and any discussion of them. Why are you so full of hate ? I know you say you "call a spade a spade" ... but you love to wallow in the negative ... rarely discussing the positive. You have no interest talking about Garland's tear ... you'd rather talk about his poor play away from the puck ... but you also won't admit that he has improved there also. This team is exciting to watch ... with two 100 pt guys out of the lineup. They can beat any team in the league any night ... and in a best of 7 ... but they can also have some stinker periods and stinker games. That is something they can work on going forward. Nobody said they'd be perfect. The only reason I think this team should go for it is because the rest of the Q is no better. If there was a dominant team this year then i'd be less inclined to want to roll the dice. Ok ... lets here you spout more negative drivel ... coward. I will play devils advocate here (as in, side with Billy lol). I am not saying you shouldn't go for it as the league really lacks a clear favourite and has an extra spot in the Memorial Cup available. Moncton are in that conversation of teams that with a couple strong moves could actually put themselves in the finals. I think where he is coming from is, he wants to focus on building a team (like SJ, like HFX) that grows into 2-3 strong, contending seasons without a long rebuild period to get back on top again. A team that can afford to add a star player or two without destroying all rebuilding assets. I think he (rightfully) was concerned with the decision to go for it a couple years ago when they could have sold instead of bought and maybe be legit favourites right now. This team of yours now is exciting and in contender talk, but an attempt at a title is still a big gamble and sets you back again. I think the concern here is that like in 2012, the Moncton strategy has been like the dog in "Up" that gets quickly distracted by "SQUIRREL!" You set out to build the team back out, but suddenly you find yourself in a situation that is appealing, so you sort of abandon what everyone wanted a year ago for short term excitement. You scream at Billy for projecting fear etc, but isn't it EXACTLY what happened in 2012? Too many holes, not enough assets to trade to fill them, and a terrible playoff failure and back to a rebuild (although luckily it has worked out somewhat with the league this year). I am not taking sides either way - I get the sensible reason to make a run this year given the guys on the roster and who will likely be gone next year - but I don't know if aiming to get a spot in the finals and perhaps an embarrassing Memorial Cup appearance if you aren't that good should be the main goal of the organization. I think Billy just doesn't want to see another 2012 type season happen - which if I remember correctly, he was one of the few actually concerned with the make-up of the team that year. I am sure he is just seeing a strong possibility for the same result because of the needs and the lack of assets to fill them to make a serious run at a league title. Here's the difference I see this year. In the fall of 2012, it was obvious that the Moose were in a class of their own at that time. Everybody knew that buying would have to be excessive just to get to the level of the Moose. That is not counting what the Moose could do at Christmas. This year's Cats are on par with the other leaders of the league. Whoever makes the purchase that pays off the most will get the nod.
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Post by Arnold Slick on Nov 15, 2014 13:56:20 GMT -4
I'll just say that I don't think you can compare 2012 to this season at all. Like catnut just said there was a team in Halifax that clearly no one was going to beat. The Cats had a team with very little chemistry and they only showed up for about half the games. This year's team has issues as well, but if we've learned anything lately it's that this squad never quits. The 2012 version folded like a cheap tent as soon as Victoriaville employed an effective strategy to beat them.
Also if I recall correctly the majority of the board thought it was a bad decision to buy in 2012. Aside from a few posters drinking the Irving kool-aid, I don't remember much celebrating when the Danault trade happened.
I certainly agree it would be nice to have a run like SJ or Halifax, but it's also not that likely to happen. SJ accomplished it by selling in 08/09 when they saw they clearly weren't good enough. Unfortunately the Cats didn't do likewise in 2012. To me, that was the chance to have a 2-3 year run, but that's done with now.
As for how Halifax got there...I don't think anyone wants to be awful for three seasons and then hope that star players who don't want to play elsewhere start falling on our lap. Not to take anything away from Halifax, but quite frankly there was a LOT of good fortune involved.
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Post by npsh on Nov 15, 2014 15:14:47 GMT -4
Can anybody really understand the RKI mindset? He wants/pushes for top results - it's the Irving way. I do not have in-depth knowledge of the overall weakness in the league as others on this board have as I don't analyze that much. It is interesting though as the Cats are winning to date(with so called assets out of the lineup) and others have indeed stepped up. That has to be a winning combination which in turn just may get the CAT management Hard Drives spinning to look at what is possible if the wins continue to be on the positive side. Some tweaking/moves/acquisitions/ just may place our CATS in the “pole” position in this so described weak league. Windows of opportunity do not shine that often, if it’s there go for it I say. Above all, it won't be boring
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 15, 2014 15:48:47 GMT -4
I will play devils advocate here (as in, side with Billy lol). I am not saying you shouldn't go for it as the league really lacks a clear favourite and has an extra spot in the Memorial Cup available. Moncton are in that conversation of teams that with a couple strong moves could actually put themselves in the finals. I think where he is coming from is, he wants to focus on building a team (like SJ, like HFX) that grows into 2-3 strong, contending seasons without a long rebuild period to get back on top again. A team that can afford to add a star player or two without destroying all rebuilding assets. I think he (rightfully) was concerned with the decision to go for it a couple years ago when they could have sold instead of bought and maybe be legit favourites right now. This team of yours now is exciting and in contender talk, but an attempt at a title is still a big gamble and sets you back again. I think the concern here is that like in 2012, the Moncton strategy has been like the dog in "Up" that gets quickly distracted by "SQUIRREL!" You set out to build the team back out, but suddenly you find yourself in a situation that is appealing, so you sort of abandon what everyone wanted a year ago for short term excitement. You scream at Billy for projecting fear etc, but isn't it EXACTLY what happened in 2012? Too many holes, not enough assets to trade to fill them, and a terrible playoff failure and back to a rebuild (although luckily it has worked out somewhat with the league this year). I am not taking sides either way - I get the sensible reason to make a run this year given the guys on the roster and who will likely be gone next year - but I don't know if aiming to get a spot in the finals and perhaps an embarrassing Memorial Cup appearance if you aren't that good should be the main goal of the organization. I think Billy just doesn't want to see another 2012 type season happen - which if I remember correctly, he was one of the few actually concerned with the make-up of the team that year. I am sure he is just seeing a strong possibility for the same result because of the needs and the lack of assets to fill them to make a serious run at a league title. Here's the difference I see this year. In the fall of 2012, it was obvious that the Moose were in a class of their own at that time. Everybody knew that buying would have to be excessive just to get to the level of the Moose. That is not counting what the Moose could do at Christmas. This year's Cats are on par with the other leaders of the league. Whoever makes the purchase that pays off the most will get the nod. Pretty safe to say Rimouski is a powerhouse, they have gone 16-6-1 without 2 of their top players for almost all of that(they have each played 5-7 games) PLUS they don't have any major weaknesses.
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