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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 10:10:19 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 12, 2014 10:10:19 GMT -4
It's the logic of the deal that really bothers me. And by logic I mean there's none at all. You weaken yourself for this season by trading your best defenceman. A season in which you're currently sitting 5th overall and within striking distance of the division lead. Does this deal really strengthen the team THAT much for next season when the division is stronger? Maybe a bit, but for me not enough to make a huge difference. If you're going to sell at least do it right and get fair value for your best defenceman and probably one of the top defenceman available during the trade period. Should at least be able to get a 1st round pick and a good young player. It really makes very little sense and I have no idea what they're trying to accomplish with this deal aside from further angering the fans. Plus if they back out of the big trade now they get hosed for Tkachev...Burke and 2 late picks is terrible return, especially when you can get a player like Burke for a 4th rounder, maybe a 3rd.
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 10:11:13 GMT -4
Post by catnut on Dec 12, 2014 10:11:13 GMT -4
It's the logic of the deal that really bothers me. And by logic I mean there's none at all. You weaken yourself for this season by trading your best defenceman. A season in which you're currently sitting 5th overall and within striking distance of the division lead. Does this deal really strengthen the team THAT much for next season when the division is stronger? Maybe a bit, but for me not enough to make a huge difference. If you're going to sell at least do it right and get fair value for your best defenceman and probably one of the top defenceman available during the trade period. Should at least be able to get a 1st round pick and a good young player. It really makes very little sense and I have no idea what they're trying to accomplish with this deal aside from further angering the fans. Totally agree. That's why I said earlier that I don't see a David Savard coming our way. If we could see a future top line F/top pair D or #1 goalie coming, I could get behind these deals. But they're selling their top players on a team that's at the top, weakening the present without improving the future enough to my liking. I hope Christmas comes at Christmas or in June.
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 10:45:48 GMT -4
Post by Arnold Slick on Dec 12, 2014 10:45:48 GMT -4
It's the logic of the deal that really bothers me. And by logic I mean there's none at all. You weaken yourself for this season by trading your best defenceman. A season in which you're currently sitting 5th overall and within striking distance of the division lead. Does this deal really strengthen the team THAT much for next season when the division is stronger? Maybe a bit, but for me not enough to make a huge difference. If you're going to sell at least do it right and get fair value for your best defenceman and probably one of the top defenceman available during the trade period. Should at least be able to get a 1st round pick and a good young player. It really makes very little sense and I have no idea what they're trying to accomplish with this deal aside from further angering the fans. Plus if they back out of the big trade now they get hosed for Tkachev...Burke and 2 late picks is terrible return, especially when you can get a player like Burke for a 4th rounder, maybe a 3rd. Yeah especially when you could have just gotten Cameron Darcy for that price
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 12:00:29 GMT -4
Post by SteveUL on Dec 12, 2014 12:00:29 GMT -4
It's the logic of the deal that really bothers me. And by logic I mean there's none at all. You weaken yourself for this season by trading your best defenceman. A season in which you're currently sitting 5th overall and within striking distance of the division lead. Does this deal really strengthen the team THAT much for next season when the division is stronger? Maybe a bit, but for me not enough to make a huge difference. If you're going to sell at least do it right and get fair value for your best defenceman and probably one of the top defenceman available during the trade period. Should at least be able to get a 1st round pick and a good young player. It really makes very little sense and I have no idea what they're trying to accomplish with this deal aside from further angering the fans. Plus if they back out of the big trade now they get hosed for Tkachev...Burke and 2 late picks is terrible return, especially when you can get a player like Burke for a 4th rounder, maybe a 3rd. Quebec actually only gave up the 2 late picks ... Burke was not on their roster and not part of their plans. From their viewpoint, the paid a 7th and 8th for Tkachev, which they'll get back for Brassard at the draft. Which really becomes nothing to them.
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 12:24:18 GMT -4
Post by mooseinfo on Dec 12, 2014 12:24:18 GMT -4
Seems like Tkachev situation got Moncton into the market when it was soft. Then got sucked into expanding the deal with spare parts Quebec wanted to cast off anyway. Had to make room for Burke so Lalonde dealt. Seems more like favors than a trade deal.
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 12:26:14 GMT -4
Post by joehockey on Dec 12, 2014 12:26:14 GMT -4
I just don't understand the Moody addition. He's nothing more than a marginal Q player and will be taking ice time from younger players who have higher upside. Makes zero sense to me. This feels like Shannon is doing nothing more than making a deal for the stake of making a deal (the Sweeney trade). perhaps there are other players being moved out during the trade period and Moody is a filler much like what we did last year with some of our deals... you still need some players to ice a lineup after all Yeah, I guess we'll find out if there are other moves, I just would hate for him to bump Leger down, or make two of the younger guys a scratch every game.
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 12:36:14 GMT -4
Post by SteveUL on Dec 12, 2014 12:36:14 GMT -4
Seems like Tkachev situation got Moncton into the market when it was soft. Then got sucked into expanding the deal with spare parts Quebec wanted to cast off anyway. Had to make room for Burke so Lalonde dealt. Seems more like favors than a trade deal. Sure ... nothing wrong with banking goodwill. But if that GM is gone when you come to cash in on that goodwill then the new guy probably isn't going to be so generous. That isn't a smart approach IMO ... and neither is this deal. Donaghey is the centerpiece in this deal ... but right now he isn't as good as Sweeney ... but has at least one more year in the Q. Sweeney may not have another year and perhaps Shannon has some inside info that Sweeney will get signed if he passes through the draft ... and if drafted he'll get signed anyway. If that is the case then you are trading 0.5 yrs of Sweeney for 1.5 years of Donaghey. At 19, Donaghey is likely as good as Sweeney ... but probably gone at 20. So you are extending the value of Sweeney by only one year. I'd rather take a 1st and a prospect ... extend the value of Sweeney by something in the area of 8 man-years. I'd rather scuttle everything ... walk away from the whole thing and cut our losses on Tkachev.
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 12:42:32 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 12, 2014 12:42:32 GMT -4
Seems like Tkachev situation got Moncton into the market when it was soft. Then got sucked into expanding the deal with spare parts Quebec wanted to cast off anyway. Had to make room for Burke so Lalonde dealt. Seems more like favors than a trade deal. Sure ... nothing wrong with banking goodwill. But if that GM is gone when you come to cash in on that goodwill then the new guy probably isn't going to be so generous. That isn't a smart approach IMO ... and neither is this deal. Donaghey is the centerpiece in this deal ... but right now he isn't as good as Sweeney ... but has at least one more year in the Q. Sweeney may not have another year and perhaps Shannon has some inside info that Sweeney will get signed if he passes through the draft ... and if drafted he'll get signed anyway. If that is the case then you are trading 0.5 yrs of Sweeney for 1.5 years of Donaghey. At 19, Donaghey is likely as good as Sweeney ... but probably gone at 20. So you are extending the value of Sweeney by only one year. I'd rather take a 1st and a prospect ... extend the value of Sweeney by something in the area of 8 man-years. I'd rather scuttle everything ... walk away from the whole thing and cut our losses on Tkachev. If the deal falls apart and part of Tkachev's value was coming in the rest of the deal, I'm sure they can still get Brassard in June, maybe send back the picks for Sutton or another of Quebec's young guys. Quebec won't want to piss off other GM's but the Cats may still not get full value, just better than what they are getting now.
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 15:17:05 GMT -4
Post by sc74 on Dec 12, 2014 15:17:05 GMT -4
If Moncton is actually selling, which is still a surprise for me, I don't understand why the deal would fall apart. I understand adding to the deal because of the injury but cancel a whole deal because of that?
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 15:56:49 GMT -4
Post by SteveUL on Dec 12, 2014 15:56:49 GMT -4
If Moncton is actually selling, which is still a surprise for me, I don't understand why the deal would fall apart. I understand adding to the deal because of the injury but cancel a whole deal because of that? Still ... if we lose half a season of Donaghey ... plus potentially reduced capabilities due to the injury ... it isn't the same deal agreed to before Wednesday night. But also ... keep in mind that us talking on here is not Shannon talking. Shannon may be fine with it all. If he is fine with this deal the way it is reported ... he can be fine with a broken NFLD boy as part of the deal.
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 20:25:38 GMT -4
Post by jonjon on Dec 12, 2014 20:25:38 GMT -4
I'm not convinced it's Sweeney. When you break it down as Johnston, the trade makes a lot more sense.
Tkachev Johnston
for
Burke Donaghey Moody Brassard (at draft) 7th 8th
People will say, "why would Quebec trade Donaghey"? Well, to get Tkachev. I think a lot of us are undervaluing Tkachev on here. If it's Sweeney, it's a clear advantage for Quebec, where as if it's Johnston, you're looking at fair value for both sides.
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 20:35:59 GMT -4
Post by WildcatMapleLeafs on Dec 12, 2014 20:35:59 GMT -4
I'm not convinced it's Sweeney. When you break it down as Johnston, the trade makes a lot more sense. Tkachev Johnston for Burke Donaghey Moody Brassard (at draft) 7th 8th People will say, "why would Quebec trade Donaghey"? Well, to get Tkachev. I think a lot of us are undervaluing Tkachev on here. If it's Sweeney, it's a clear advantage for Quebec, where as if it's Johnston, you're looking at fair value for both sides. I've been trying to convince myself this is the case but I really think it's Sweeney.
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 21:28:30 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 12, 2014 21:28:30 GMT -4
I'm not convinced it's Sweeney. When you break it down as Johnston, the trade makes a lot more sense. Tkachev Johnston for Burke Donaghey Moody Brassard (at draft) 7th 8th People will say, "why would Quebec trade Donaghey"? Well, to get Tkachev. I think a lot of us are undervaluing Tkachev on here. If it's Sweeney, it's a clear advantage for Quebec, where as if it's Johnston, you're looking at fair value for both sides. If it was Johnston, Donaghey would only come at the draft not on the 19th.
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Xmas
Dec 12, 2014 21:31:30 GMT -4
Post by WildcatMapleLeafs on Dec 12, 2014 21:31:30 GMT -4
I'm not convinced it's Sweeney. When you break it down as Johnston, the trade makes a lot more sense. Tkachev Johnston for Burke Donaghey Moody Brassard (at draft) 7th 8th People will say, "why would Quebec trade Donaghey"? Well, to get Tkachev. I think a lot of us are undervaluing Tkachev on here. If it's Sweeney, it's a clear advantage for Quebec, where as if it's Johnston, you're looking at fair value for both sides. You could even add in the rumoured 2nd rounder that we got in the Lalonde deal.
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Xmas
Dec 13, 2014 1:29:34 GMT -4
Post by npsh on Dec 13, 2014 1:29:34 GMT -4
It will be interesting to see what the Cats will do after Christmas - shore up some loose areas or unload assets for a rebuild. Comments!! Well.... seems like I did get plenty of comments(and good ones from many who know more than I do) and this trade raised a few eyebrows. It suggests to me there is more backroom maneuvering combined with some palace intrigue. I suppose one could say – stay tuned as Cats have been playing some very good hockey as of late. Cheers
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