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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Apr 20, 2015 12:24:26 GMT -4
That was a pathetic effort by the Cats, the refs have not been great, no doubt but going down 6-0 to an inferior team is inexcusable... "Inferior team"? I assume the only reason you are calling Mooseheads inferior is based solely on 2 vs 12 right? I think its more to do with the 25 point difference in the standings and the fact the moose have 6 rookies on defense and barely a 2nd line.
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Post by Gman on Apr 20, 2015 12:51:47 GMT -4
The Reffing is just very one sided ... we get called for just about everything we do ... Halifax gets called for every 6th infraction. Trying to play through the garbage inhibits your ability to play the game to your ability ... especially when the other team doesn't have to play through it. The powerplay opportunities were 4-4. Halifax happened to score on 3 of theirs. Not the ref's fault your PK units didn't step up. I don't think you realize just how biased you are with comments like the one I quoted.
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Post by SteveUL on Apr 20, 2015 13:13:15 GMT -4
The Reffing is just very one sided ... we get called for just about everything we do ... Halifax gets called for every 6th infraction. Trying to play through the garbage inhibits your ability to play the game to your ability ... especially when the other team doesn't have to play through it. The powerplay opportunities were 4-4. Halifax happened to score on 3 of theirs. Not the ref's fault your PK units didn't step up. I don't think you realize just how biased you are with comments like the one I quoted. Well if the PP opportunities were 12-6 in favour of Moncton ... like they should be ... if you call the game consistently for both sides ... then perhaps we get that 6 and 7th goal and the momentum shifts at a much different time in the game. I know my team played poorly ... I'm not defending them for that. But this entire series the Refs are applying a different standard to Moncton than they are to Halifax. Both teams are doing the same things but only one team is getting called for it. Did Garland slash Hardie ... maybe ... but then he gets taken to the ice without his helmet on (how did his helmet come off) but there is no call that way. Was the slash before or after that ? Did you see the slash on Ehlers ? How many times have you seen that one handed slash in a typical game ... and how many times have you seen it called ? How many times did your team do that in the game yesterday.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Apr 20, 2015 13:22:44 GMT -4
The powerplay opportunities were 4-4. Halifax happened to score on 3 of theirs. Not the ref's fault your PK units didn't step up. I don't think you realize just how biased you are with comments like the one I quoted. Well if the PP opportunities were 12-6 in favour of Moncton ... like they should be ... if you call the game consistently for both sides ... then perhaps we get that 6 and 7th goal and the momentum shifts at a much different time in the game. I know my team played poorly ... I'm not defending them for that. But this entire series the Refs are applying a different standard to Moncton than they are to Halifax. Both teams are doing the same things but only one team is getting called for it. Did Garland slash Hardie ... maybe ... but then he gets taken to the ice without his helmet on (how did his helmet come off) but there is no call that way. Was the slash before or after that ? Did you see the slash on Ehlers ? How many times have you seen that one handed slash in a typical game ... and how many times have you seen it called ? How many times did your team do that in the game yesterday. The problem here is that this is what you feel...while others feel the reffing has been virtually a non issue in this series, or that Moncton get away with their share too. The interference you guys run is an art form at times, and its rarely called for example. And again, complaining about officiating at least has SOME weight when you find yourself killing penalties all the time and lopsided in PP opportunities - which in Moncton's case, has actually BENEFITED them. It is a weak argument.
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Post by Gman on Apr 20, 2015 13:33:35 GMT -4
The powerplay opportunities were 4-4. Halifax happened to score on 3 of theirs. Not the ref's fault your PK units didn't step up. I don't think you realize just how biased you are with comments like the one I quoted. Well if the PP opportunities were 12-6 in favour of Moncton ... like they should be ... if you call the game consistently for both sides ... then perhaps we get that 6 and 7th goal and the momentum shifts at a much different time in the game. I know my team played poorly ... I'm not defending them for that. But this entire series the Refs are applying a different standard to Moncton than they are to Halifax. Both teams are doing the same things but only one team is getting called for it. Did Garland slash Hardie ... maybe ... but then he gets taken to the ice without his helmet on (how did his helmet come off) but there is no call that way. Was the slash before or after that ? Did you see the slash on Ehlers ? How many times have you seen that one handed slash in a typical game ... and how many times have you seen it called ? How many times did your team do that in the game yesterday. In order for there to be a different standard, the refs would need to be calling Moncton though and they aren't when you look at the big picture. The penalties have been in favor of Moncton by the numbers, and you are looking at it with homer glasses, no differently than Moose fans are. You can't be objective, but that's ok- no one expects you to. It's a heated series.
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Post by SteveUL on Apr 20, 2015 14:21:54 GMT -4
Well if the PP opportunities were 12-6 in favour of Moncton ... like they should be ... if you call the game consistently for both sides ... then perhaps we get that 6 and 7th goal and the momentum shifts at a much different time in the game. I know my team played poorly ... I'm not defending them for that. But this entire series the Refs are applying a different standard to Moncton than they are to Halifax. Both teams are doing the same things but only one team is getting called for it. Did Garland slash Hardie ... maybe ... but then he gets taken to the ice without his helmet on (how did his helmet come off) but there is no call that way. Was the slash before or after that ? Did you see the slash on Ehlers ? How many times have you seen that one handed slash in a typical game ... and how many times have you seen it called ? How many times did your team do that in the game yesterday. The problem here is that this is what you feel...while others feel the reffing has been virtually a non issue in this series, or that Moncton get away with their share too. The interference you guys run is an art form at times, and its rarely called for example. And again, complaining about officiating at least has SOME weight when you find yourself killing penalties all the time and lopsided in PP opportunities - which in Moncton's case, has actually BENEFITED them. It is a weak argument. Ah yes ... this goes back to what I say is what I "feel" ... yet when you say it, it is "fact". I can't help you any more.
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Post by SteveUL on Apr 20, 2015 14:27:00 GMT -4
Well if the PP opportunities were 12-6 in favour of Moncton ... like they should be ... if you call the game consistently for both sides ... then perhaps we get that 6 and 7th goal and the momentum shifts at a much different time in the game. I know my team played poorly ... I'm not defending them for that. But this entire series the Refs are applying a different standard to Moncton than they are to Halifax. Both teams are doing the same things but only one team is getting called for it. Did Garland slash Hardie ... maybe ... but then he gets taken to the ice without his helmet on (how did his helmet come off) but there is no call that way. Was the slash before or after that ? Did you see the slash on Ehlers ? How many times have you seen that one handed slash in a typical game ... and how many times have you seen it called ? How many times did your team do that in the game yesterday. In order for there to be a different standard, the refs would need to be calling Moncton though and they aren't when you look at the big picture. The penalties have been in favor of Moncton by the numbers, and you are looking at it with homer glasses, no differently than Moose fans are. You can't be objective, but that's ok- no one expects you to. It's a heated series. They are calling Moncton ... yet the same thing is not being called against Halifax. Halifax is getting calls against them ... but 50% (an estimate only) is let go against Halifax. I gave you a few examples and you ignored them ... because they don't fit your argument. If Moncton gets called for a pick ... fine ... but call Halifax when they do it also. If Moncton gets called for a one handed slash ... fine ... but call the 40 or 50 on both teams that have occurred up to that point in the game.
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Post by Gman on Apr 20, 2015 15:21:25 GMT -4
In order for there to be a different standard, the refs would need to be calling Moncton though and they aren't when you look at the big picture. The penalties have been in favor of Moncton by the numbers, and you are looking at it with homer glasses, no differently than Moose fans are. You can't be objective, but that's ok- no one expects you to. It's a heated series. They are calling Moncton ... yet the same thing is not being called against Halifax. Halifax is getting calls against them ... but 50% (an estimate only) is let go against Halifax. I gave you a few examples and you ignored them ... because they don't fit your argument. If Moncton gets called for a pick ... fine ... but call Halifax when they do it also. If Moncton gets called for a one handed slash ... fine ... but call the 40 or 50 on both teams that have occurred up to that point in the game. But you are cherrypicking a few examples from 6 games to fit your argument. There have been lots of infractions by Moncton players that have gone uncalled as well, but again, you are looking at it from a biased state of mind. Same as I would from my side. I'm not ignoring your examples- I'm dismissing them because they are irrelevant. In your mind, you think Halifax should have had 12 penalties per game and Moncton 6. If that's how you feel, there's really not much point in debating further because you are wishing for something that will never happen.
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Post by SteveUL on Apr 20, 2015 16:07:33 GMT -4
They are calling Moncton ... yet the same thing is not being called against Halifax. Halifax is getting calls against them ... but 50% (an estimate only) is let go against Halifax. I gave you a few examples and you ignored them ... because they don't fit your argument. If Moncton gets called for a pick ... fine ... but call Halifax when they do it also. If Moncton gets called for a one handed slash ... fine ... but call the 40 or 50 on both teams that have occurred up to that point in the game. But you are cherrypicking a few examples from 6 games to fit your argument. There have been lots of infractions by Moncton players that have gone uncalled as well, but again, you are looking at it from a biased state of mind. Same as I would from my side. I'm not ignoring your examples- I'm dismissing them because they are irrelevant. In your mind, you think Halifax should have had 12 penalties per game and Moncton 6. If that's how you feel, there's really not much point in debating further because you are wishing for something that will never happen. We are talking about Game 6 ... thats why I used it .. why wouldn't I ? If Halifax deserves 12 penalties per game ... yes ... sure. If Moncton deserves 12 then yes ... give them to them. I just want both teams held to the same standard and have both teams penalized for similar infractions. If they are letting a little hooking and holding go ... no problem ... do it for both teams. If they are letting picks go ... no problem ... do it for both teams. If that means that Halifax deserves 8 penalties to Moncton's 4 ... then yes ... that is what it should be. If it is 8 for Moncton vs 2 for Halifax ... by that same standard for each team then yes that is what I want. I rarely argue that a penalty is not deserved. Garland slashed Ehlers on the hand ... no arguing that ... clear as day. McEwan interfered with a Moose Dman ... 100% correct call. Zilbert's highstick was clear as day. Its the stuff that isn't called that I have a problem with. Why shouldn't that happen ? Is there a rule in the game that says that penalties have to be equal ?
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Post by Gman on Apr 20, 2015 17:07:49 GMT -4
But you are cherrypicking a few examples from 6 games to fit your argument. There have been lots of infractions by Moncton players that have gone uncalled as well, but again, you are looking at it from a biased state of mind. Same as I would from my side. I'm not ignoring your examples- I'm dismissing them because they are irrelevant. In your mind, you think Halifax should have had 12 penalties per game and Moncton 6. If that's how you feel, there's really not much point in debating further because you are wishing for something that will never happen. We are talking about Game 6 ... thats why I used it .. why wouldn't I ? If Halifax deserves 12 penalties per game ... yes ... sure. If Moncton deserves 12 then yes ... give them to them. I just want both teams held to the same standard and have both teams penalized for similar infractions. If they are letting a little hooking and holding go ... no problem ... do it for both teams. If they are letting picks go ... no problem ... do it for both teams. If that means that Halifax deserves 8 penalties to Moncton's 4 ... then yes ... that is what it should be. If it is 8 for Moncton vs 2 for Halifax ... by that same standard for each team then yes that is what I want. I rarely argue that a penalty is not deserved. Garland slashed Ehlers on the hand ... no arguing that ... clear as day. McEwan interfered with a Moose Dman ... 100% correct call. Zilbert's highstick was clear as day. Its the stuff that isn't called that I have a problem with. Why shouldn't that happen ? Is there a rule in the game that says that penalties have to be equal ? The content of your posts make it hard to distinguish whether you are talking about one game or the series. In most cases you are generalizing, which makes it seem like a pattern of officiating issues, not just one game. Again, the penalties were tied- it's not like it's a Wildcat parade to the box. Refs do their best to keep the amount of penalties down in the playoffs, which is nothing new and you know as well as I do that they try their best to keep them even- right or wrong. I've been watching this league a hell of a long time, and if there's one thing that's been consistent, it's been inconsistency among officials. That you guys choose now to be vocally pissed off about it is pretty funny. You know what you were getting already- so did Halifax.
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Post by SteveUL on Apr 20, 2015 17:25:36 GMT -4
We are talking about Game 6 ... thats why I used it .. why wouldn't I ? If Halifax deserves 12 penalties per game ... yes ... sure. If Moncton deserves 12 then yes ... give them to them. I just want both teams held to the same standard and have both teams penalized for similar infractions. If they are letting a little hooking and holding go ... no problem ... do it for both teams. If they are letting picks go ... no problem ... do it for both teams. If that means that Halifax deserves 8 penalties to Moncton's 4 ... then yes ... that is what it should be. If it is 8 for Moncton vs 2 for Halifax ... by that same standard for each team then yes that is what I want. I rarely argue that a penalty is not deserved. Garland slashed Ehlers on the hand ... no arguing that ... clear as day. McEwan interfered with a Moose Dman ... 100% correct call. Zilbert's highstick was clear as day. Its the stuff that isn't called that I have a problem with. Why shouldn't that happen ? Is there a rule in the game that says that penalties have to be equal ? The content of your posts make it hard to distinguish whether you are talking about one game or the series. In most cases you are generalizing, which makes it seem like a pattern of officiating issues, not just one game. Again, the penalties were tied- it's not like it's a Wildcat parade to the box. Refs do their best to keep the amount of penalties down in the playoffs, which is nothing new and you know as well as I do that they try their best to keep them even- right or wrong. I've been watching this league a hell of a long time, and if there's one thing that's been consistent, it's been inconsistency among officials. That you guys choose now to be vocally pissed off about it is pretty funny. You know what you were getting already- so did Halifax. You aren't comprehending. I'm not complaining about the calls ... its the noncalls. I have no problem having a few calls missed ... it happens ... and usually it evens out over a run of games. But it isn't evening out ... its every game and Halifax gets away with so much stuff ... stuff that Moncton gets called for. You can't go count up the PPs and say "what are you talking about ... PPs are fairly even". It doesn't show up there ... but you'll bring it up again. The Q doesn't keep track of non-calls.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Apr 20, 2015 17:29:14 GMT -4
We are talking about Game 6 ... thats why I used it .. why wouldn't I ? If Halifax deserves 12 penalties per game ... yes ... sure. If Moncton deserves 12 then yes ... give them to them. I just want both teams held to the same standard and have both teams penalized for similar infractions. If they are letting a little hooking and holding go ... no problem ... do it for both teams. If they are letting picks go ... no problem ... do it for both teams. If that means that Halifax deserves 8 penalties to Moncton's 4 ... then yes ... that is what it should be. If it is 8 for Moncton vs 2 for Halifax ... by that same standard for each team then yes that is what I want. I rarely argue that a penalty is not deserved. Garland slashed Ehlers on the hand ... no arguing that ... clear as day. McEwan interfered with a Moose Dman ... 100% correct call. Zilbert's highstick was clear as day. Its the stuff that isn't called that I have a problem with. Why shouldn't that happen ? Is there a rule in the game that says that penalties have to be equal ? The content of your posts make it hard to distinguish whether you are talking about one game or the series. In most cases you are generalizing, which makes it seem like a pattern of officiating issues, not just one game. Again, the penalties were tied- it's not like it's a Wildcat parade to the box. Refs do their best to keep the amount of penalties down in the playoffs, which is nothing new and you know as well as I do that they try their best to keep them even- right or wrong. I've been watching this league a hell of a long time, and if there's one thing that's been consistent, it's been inconsistency among officials. That you guys choose now to be vocally pissed off about it is pretty funny. You know what you were getting already- so did Halifax. Same as reffing to the scoreboard...at 4 or 5 nothing, there were a couple blatant penalties they let go on moncton...including that hook on c. moynihan that practically pulled him backwards. Shortly after something else was obvious too (brain fart now, cant remember). I said at that time they were reffing to the score. There is no double standard in this series, both teams have been let off the hook at times but most of the stuff that needs to be called has been called imo.
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Post by Gman on Apr 20, 2015 17:32:20 GMT -4
No I get it. I understand what you're saying, but you've changed your argument now. At first it was "refs are one sided- they call Moncton for everything and Halifax for nothing". And I pointed out that was not the case- the penalties have been even.
But to your current argument, you are evaluating through blinders. YOU see all the missed calls on your players, and I see all the missed calls on the Cats. To me, the Moose have been abused and haven't gotten the calls, and you see it the other way. Doesn't mean you are right. It would be interesting to have an impartial person watch the games and give their opinion, because clearly, both of ours will be tainted.
EDIT: the same thing is happening to me in the MTL-OTT series. I'm feeling like (until game 3) Ottawa has practically had penalty immunity. They can do whatever they please without getting called. Then Montreal does one thing, and the player is off to the box. But I'm not the most unbiased person to judge this. Also the fact that Montreal has had PPs in both overtimes is pretty huge, even if the calls were both deserved.
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Post by SteveUL on Apr 20, 2015 18:04:12 GMT -4
No I get it. I understand what you're saying, but you've changed your argument now. At first it was "refs are one sided- they call Moncton for everything and Halifax for nothing". And I pointed out that was not the case- the penalties have been even. But to your current argument, you are evaluating through blinders. YOU see all the missed calls on your players, and I see all the missed calls on the Cats. To me, the Moose have been abused and haven't gotten the calls, and you see it the other way. Doesn't mean you are right. It would be interesting to have an impartial person watch the games and give their opinion, because clearly, both of ours will be tainted. EDIT: the same thing is happening to me in the MTL-OTT series. I'm feeling like (until game 3) Ottawa has practically had penalty immunity. They can do whatever they please without getting called. Then Montreal does one thing, and the player is off to the box. But I'm not the most unbiased person to judge this. Also the fact that Montreal has had PPs in both overtimes is pretty huge, even if the calls were both deserved. Nope ... I have not changed my tune at all ... you just weren't getting it. I could tell by you bringing up the number of PPs that each team had which has nothing to do with it. I'm also a Habs fan but not seeing the same thing. Last year vs the Bruins I did see it that way ... Marchand and Chara could do anything they wanted and get away with it. I see the Mtl/Ott series fairly even ... lots let go ... but fairly equal to both teams so far.
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Apr 20, 2015 18:33:36 GMT -4
No I get it. I understand what you're saying, but you've changed your argument now. At first it was "refs are one sided- they call Moncton for everything and Halifax for nothing". And I pointed out that was not the case- the penalties have been even. But to your current argument, you are evaluating through blinders. YOU see all the missed calls on your players, and I see all the missed calls on the Cats. To me, the Moose have been abused and haven't gotten the calls, and you see it the other way. Doesn't mean you are right. It would be interesting to have an impartial person watch the games and give their opinion, because clearly, both of ours will be tainted. EDIT: the same thing is happening to me in the MTL-OTT series. I'm feeling like (until game 3) Ottawa has practically had penalty immunity. They can do whatever they please without getting called. Then Montreal does one thing, and the player is off to the box. But I'm not the most unbiased person to judge this. Also the fact that Montreal has had PPs in both overtimes is pretty huge, even if the calls were both deserved. Nope ... I have not changed my tune at all ... you just weren't getting it. I could tell by you bringing up the number of PPs that each team had which has nothing to do with it. I'm also a Habs fan but not seeing the same thing. Last year vs the Bruins I did see it that way ... Marchand and Chara could do anything they wanted and get away with it. I see the Mtl/Ott series fairly even ... lots let go ... but fairly equal to both teams so far. I always have a problem with people counting fouls and expecting them to even out.
It is possible for the ref to give you a "break" by not calling everything he sees...yet people still think they are owed a call to go their way.
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