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Post by jamesnorris on Jun 10, 2015 13:53:24 GMT -4
That's a fair way of looking at it, but I still wouldn't make a pick. As a team looking to contend I would think any Euro we'd be after would be 18/19 and play a top 6 F/top 4 D role, otherwise we just roll the dice in a years time when we have lots of openings. Not being able to trade the new Euro is what drives my decision. I have to bring him over, let him go for nothing, and potentially have him bite me in the ass. If Svechnikov makes the NHL having the ability to go out and get the best Euro on the trade market is more appealing to me as a contender as well. Well the price you would pay for the best Euro on the trade market would probably be similar to the price you would pay for the best North American on the trade market. So it comes down to, would you rather an average Euro & trade for one of the best North Americans available or not take a Euro and trade for the best Euro available. I prefer the first option as you would have way more available trade partners & you would also have an extra body on the roster.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 10, 2015 14:03:20 GMT -4
That's a fair way of looking at it, but I still wouldn't make a pick. As a team looking to contend I would think any Euro we'd be after would be 18/19 and play a top 6 F/top 4 D role, otherwise we just roll the dice in a years time when we have lots of openings. Not being able to trade the new Euro is what drives my decision. I have to bring him over, let him go for nothing, and potentially have him bite me in the ass. If Svechnikov makes the NHL having the ability to go out and get the best Euro on the trade market is more appealing to me as a contender as well. Well the price you would pay for the best Euro on the trade market would probably be similar to the price you would pay for the best North American on the trade market. So it comes down to, would you rather an average Euro & trade for one of the best North Americans available or not take a Euro and trade for the best Euro available. I prefer the first option as you would have way more available trade partners & you would also have an extra body on the roster. Without looking, usually Euro's come at a slightly lower cost. There are exceptions for sure though. If we had an average Euro, we'd be looking to upgrade the same way as if we had no Euro. No different then if we had an average 20 vs no 20. Would suck to being over a top 6 winger, and Moncton or Saint John's star Euro pick fall through, and they get our guy on the cheap to ride shotgun with a player like Garland all season.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 10, 2015 14:06:40 GMT -4
I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure if you make the pick and Svechnikov goes in the NHL 1st round that player goes on a special list and can just be on a protective list. You can leave him over in Euro and not bring him over then next year you can bring him over. But if 3 are here at the same time yes you have to trade or release one. Like I said not 100% on that but that's how I understood it to work. Nope. Once Svechnikov is sent back we would have 3 and have to trade or release 1. Exception would be if the kid was drafted a year ago and didnt play all season, like Svechnikov. We technically, for example, could have selected a Euro last year and rolled the dice with 3 of them coming to camp and have to move 1 of Lazarev or Svechnikov for a return or the other new guy on waivers for nothing. What really scews us is the inability to either A) Trade our pick or B) Trade the player we draft with that pick. If we use the pick and keep the player we have to lose one of the other 2 once both are back in the Q or lose the player we brought over for nothing since we can't trade him.
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Post by jamesnorris on Jun 10, 2015 14:35:53 GMT -4
I see the logic but don't agree with it.
If you pass on the import pick and Svechnikov is in the NHL, you're in a much deeper hole than if you draft a guy & have to release him. Any team picking up an import off waivers at the start of the season isn't likely to be much of a contender anyway.
You're not getting any return either way from the pick so why not cover your ass?
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JPLAB
Draft Pick
Posts: 90
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Post by JPLAB on Jun 10, 2015 14:38:40 GMT -4
I for one am very happy with the Euros we have .
Sent from my SM-G386W using proboards
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 10, 2015 14:45:51 GMT -4
I see the logic but don't agree with it. If you pass on the import pick and Svechnikov is in the NHL, you're in a much deeper hole than if you draft a guy & have to release him. Any team picking up an import off waivers at the start of the season isn't likely to be much of a contender anyway. You're not getting any return either way from the pick so why not cover your ass? At the end of it, the decision is really dependent on what you put the chances of Svechnikov staying in the NHL. I put it at less then 1%. Probably a higher chance of Ranger getting an invite and playing pro hockey. Will be an interesting situation to follow.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 10, 2015 14:46:12 GMT -4
I for one am very happy with the Euros we have . Sent from my SM-G386W using proboards Well I would hope so, it's among the best duo's we've ever had.
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Euro draft
Jun 10, 2015 15:03:32 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by statsman18 on Jun 10, 2015 15:03:32 GMT -4
I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure if you make the pick and Svechnikov goes in the NHL 1st round that player goes on a special list and can just be on a protective list. You can leave him over in Euro and not bring him over then next year you can bring him over. But if 3 are here at the same time yes you have to trade or release one. Like I said not 100% on that but that's how I understood it to work. Nope. Once Svechnikov is sent back we would have 3 and have to trade or release 1. Exception would be if the kid was drafted a year ago and didnt play all season, like Svechnikov. We technically, for example, could have selected a Euro last year and rolled the dice with 3 of them coming to camp and have to move 1 of Lazarev or Svechnikov for a return or the other new guy on waivers for nothing. What really scews us is the inability to either A) Trade our pick or B) Trade the player we draft with that pick. If we use the pick and keep the player we have to lose one of the other 2 once both are back in the Q or lose the player we brought over for nothing since we can't trade him. Are you sure about that? If he isn't here and doesn't come here at all doesn't he go on a different list? And when Svechnikov comes back he just stays on that list? For example did Quebec drop there 1st pick from last year? I don't know that why I ask. If they did then yes that is they way it is.
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Post by catnut on Jun 10, 2015 15:12:26 GMT -4
Nope. Once Svechnikov is sent back we would have 3 and have to trade or release 1. Exception would be if the kid was drafted a year ago and didnt play all season, like Svechnikov. We technically, for example, could have selected a Euro last year and rolled the dice with 3 of them coming to camp and have to move 1 of Lazarev or Svechnikov for a return or the other new guy on waivers for nothing. What really scews us is the inability to either A) Trade our pick or B) Trade the player we draft with that pick. If we use the pick and keep the player we have to lose one of the other 2 once both are back in the Q or lose the player we brought over for nothing since we can't trade him. Are you sure about that? If he isn't here and doesn't come here at all doesn't he go on a different list? And when Svechnikov comes back he just stays on that list? For example did Quebec drop there 1st pick from last year? I don't know that why I ask. If they did then yes that is they way it is. Yes, Québec had to drop Kamenev to bring in Tkachev.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 10, 2015 15:14:19 GMT -4
Nope. Once Svechnikov is sent back we would have 3 and have to trade or release 1. Exception would be if the kid was drafted a year ago and didnt play all season, like Svechnikov. We technically, for example, could have selected a Euro last year and rolled the dice with 3 of them coming to camp and have to move 1 of Lazarev or Svechnikov for a return or the other new guy on waivers for nothing. What really scews us is the inability to either A) Trade our pick or B) Trade the player we draft with that pick. If we use the pick and keep the player we have to lose one of the other 2 once both are back in the Q or lose the player we brought over for nothing since we can't trade him. Are you sure about that? If he isn't here and doesn't come here at all doesn't he go on a different list? And when Svechnikov comes back he just stays on that list? For example did Quebec drop there 1st pick from last year? I don't know that why I ask. If they did then yes that is they way it is. If a Euro does not report he only goes on a 'special list' in a year , or for the next Euro draft.. The idea is you can only have 2 but the special lists give exceptions for a 3rd to be held in terms of rights but otherwise you can't hold 3 long term. Right now Svechnikov going in round 1 only would put him on a special list. The player we pick is then technically our Euro along with Lazarev. Once Svechnikov is re-assigned we have 3 and must get down to 2. If Svechnikov didn't report for 14-15 and we drafted a Euro in 2014 who didn't report, then we would currently have Lazarev, Svechnikov on a special list for not reporting for 2 years. the 2014 Euro on a list for not reporting for 1 year, and could draft another Euro this year. If we ended up with all 4 on the roster in the Fall then we would have to get down to 2 and only the most recently drafted player could not be traded.
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Euro draft
Jun 10, 2015 15:14:45 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by statsman18 on Jun 10, 2015 15:14:45 GMT -4
Are you sure about that? If he isn't here and doesn't come here at all doesn't he go on a different list? And when Svechnikov comes back he just stays on that list? For example did Quebec drop there 1st pick from last year? I don't know that why I ask. If they did then yes that is they way it is. Yes, Québec had to drop Kamenev to bring in Tkachev. That's answers that then.
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Post by jamesnorris on Jun 10, 2015 17:45:50 GMT -4
At the end of it, the decision is really dependent on what you put the chances of Svechnikov staying in the NHL. I put it at less then 1%. Probably a higher chance of Ranger getting an invite and playing pro hockey. Will be an interesting situation to follow. All depends on who drafts him I guess. Like if it's Detroit, no worries, he's coming back. If it's Minnesota, I cringe and think about James Sheppard lol It definitely makes the NHL draft that much more interesting.
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Post by Judas In My Mind on Jun 10, 2015 19:11:10 GMT -4
At the end of it, the decision is really dependent on what you put the chances of Svechnikov staying in the NHL. I put it at less then 1%. Probably a higher chance of Ranger getting an invite and playing pro hockey. Will be an interesting situation to follow. All depends on who drafts him I guess. Like if it's Detroit, no worries, he's coming back. If it's Minnesota, I cringe and think about James Sheppard lol It definitely makes the NHL draft that much more interesting. David Perron is the scary example I always think of. Sheppard at least was a #1 pick in the QMJHL draft, and went 9th overall in the NHL draft. Perron wasn't even picked his first time through the Q draft. Then he went in the 6th round his 2nd time through. The Blues select him like 26th overall in the NHL draft....and he sticks. Ouch.
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Post by jamesnorris on Jun 10, 2015 20:14:34 GMT -4
David Perron is the scary example I always think of. Sheppard at least was a #1 pick in the QMJHL draft, and went 9th overall in the NHL draft. Perron wasn't even picked his first time through the Q draft. Then he went in the 6th round his 2nd time through. The Blues select him like 26th overall in the NHL draft....and he sticks. Ouch. I just wanted to keep it Cape Breton lol Patrice Bergeron was a similar story to Perron. He was the final 15 year old picked in 2001 (5th round), ripped midget apart as a 16 year old, big season with Acadie-Bathurst, 2nd round 45th overall pick to Boston in 2003, and immediately made the team. Moral of these stories, anything can happen. Hell, Svechnikov might get dropped to the 2nd round because of the 'Russian Factor' even though he's seemed like a top 20 player for a while now.
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Post by WildcatMapleLeafs on Jun 14, 2015 19:43:21 GMT -4
David Perron is the scary example I always think of. Sheppard at least was a #1 pick in the QMJHL draft, and went 9th overall in the NHL draft. Perron wasn't even picked his first time through the Q draft. Then he went in the 6th round his 2nd time through. The Blues select him like 26th overall in the NHL draft....and he sticks. Ouch. I just wanted to keep it Cape Breton lol Patrice Bergeron was a similar story to Perron. He was the final 15 year old picked in 2001 (5th round), ripped midget apart as a 16 year old, big season with Acadie-Bathurst, 2nd round 45th overall pick to Boston in 2003, and immediately made the team. Moral of these stories, anything can happen. Hell, Svechnikov might get dropped to the 2nd round because of the 'Russian Factor' even though he's seemed like a top 20 player for a while now. Yeah, look at Barbashev last season, most had him pegged in the 10-15 range and he slipped into the second.
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