|
Post by Penguins23® on Jan 26, 2016 9:45:50 GMT -4
There's no denying Shannon had a good year of getting free agents with Klima x2 and Kosack but the trades leave a lot to be desired. The bulk of his hockey experience is in university hockey where there are no trades so he doesn't have a lot of experience. Add in the fact that the Wildcats try to maintain a perfect image for recruiting purposes and it leads to them selling low on guys like Crossman.
Karabacek deal was great.
I can't explain or defend the Bouchard deal though. Right up there with the Danault trade for worst trade in franchise history. That one didn't cost Flynn his GM job per se though.
I think he's a good hockey mind to have with the team, I don't want him to be fired. I just wish someone other than Irving would look over his trades before he pulls the trigger.
|
|
Eagle
Draft Pick
Posts: 42
|
Post by Eagle on Jan 26, 2016 10:35:50 GMT -4
This is deeper than Shannon making bad trades, players have been asking out ... something is brewing in the locker room and it needs to be addressed.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 26, 2016 10:47:08 GMT -4
This is deeper than Shannon making bad trades, players have been asking out ... something is brewing in the locker room and it needs to be addressed. One theme I have heard from some around the team for a few years is players are promised certain things to report then things change once they arrive. I think this is an issue in bringing in more US players...some of the ones that came were not given what they were promised. This is not something new though...
|
|
|
Post by Penguins23® on Jan 26, 2016 11:16:30 GMT -4
This is deeper than Shannon making bad trades, players have been asking out ... something is brewing in the locker room and it needs to be addressed. One theme I have heard from some around the team for a few years is players are promised certain things to report then things change once they arrive. I think this is an issue in bringing in more US players...some of the ones that came were not given what they were promised. This is not something new though... I don't doubt that, especially for the kids that are trying to protect their NCAA eligibility so they need to be promised things before the team can even see them in an exhibition game.
|
|
|
Post by jimmy on Jan 26, 2016 11:35:10 GMT -4
This is deeper than Shannon making bad trades, players have been asking out ... something is brewing in the locker room and it needs to be addressed. One theme I have heard from some around the team for a few years is players are promised certain things to report then things change once they arrive. I think this is an issue in bringing in more US players...some of the ones that came were not given what they were promised. This is not something new though... I don't think that is a Wildcat problem per se ... NCAA teams face that issue, as do any other major junior teams that heavily recruit players (as opposed to just drafting guys willing to show up with no promises) ... Any time you are trying to recruit players, certain promises will be made - some, such as scholarships, no trade clauses, are binding, while others, such as ice time, are more insinuated ... Ultimately, if the player lives up to his promise, you have no issues ... But if the player doesn't pan out, eventually the ice time is going to go to someone more deserving. Doesn't mean that player and his family won't feel they got a raw deal, regret their decision to sign, etc ... Other than trying to avoid making promises about roles and ice time as much as possible, not sure that it can be avoided.
|
|
|
Post by SteveUL on Jan 26, 2016 11:54:44 GMT -4
I was positive enough to say that if they added the right pieces they could compete with anybody...instead they threw away a bunch of assets to make the team not much better than it was 6 weeks ago. They could have probably added a better goalie just by getting a Jr.A free agent. Donaghey is the only clear upgrade from what they had before. He's a lot better than Malatesta or Klebanskyj in the top 4. I am OK with adding Karabacek considering the price ... he came pretty cheap ... is clearly more of an impact than Glassl, and if nothing else gives us depth ... I can live with the additions of Richard and Pickard - minor moves to add depth. The Bouchard deal is looking like the disaster most of us predicted it would be ... I would say overall Shannon has done a decent job as GM, but you have to wonder, if we go down in flames and poor goaltending is the main culprit, will the Bouchard move cost him his job? He traded two 2nd rounders for a guy who has not been able to establish himself as our #1 guy - and not because the #2 has been playing well ... brutal ... If you are trying to build a contending team ... goaltending is the most important position. OK goaltending doesn't win ... it has to be solid ... but a team loaded at forward and on defense can hide "OK" goaltending. We don't have "OK" goaltending right now ... BMD was OK for awhile but has regressed but he is rookie and our 3rd option of the season. We aren't loaded on forward and defense ... strong offensively but we win games 6-4 against non-contenders ... not 6-2. So IMO if you are going to spend assets to contend then you better first have solid goaltending. Shannon dropped the ball and wasted assets by having a poor eye for talent. That to me is grounds for firing. I would have preffered that we not spend assets to get better ... I would have rather we stood pat and made moves for the future only. Moves for Bouchard and Karabacek and Richard are not for the future ... Pickard was but he won't be a key player at anytime in the future. Shannon has had his victories in FA additions ... but failures in trades and major failures in holding onto draft picks ... gave away another 1st this year and we have nothing to show for it.
|
|
|
Post by SteveUL on Jan 26, 2016 11:56:14 GMT -4
No ... we said you were always negative ... you only comment when you have something negative to say and never comment when there are positives. If we beat a team 7-1, and the lone goal against was a bad one, you'd comment on that only and how it was ultimately Shannon's fault ... and then mention we should have grabbed that Russian goaltender 6 yrs ago. That is still the truth ... you only bring negative discussion ... never positive. Right now there isn't much positive to discuss so you can fill your boots ... you'll blend in. I was positive enough to say that if they added the right pieces they could compete with anybody...instead they threw away a bunch of assets to make the team not much better than it was 6 weeks ago. They could have probably added a better goalie just by getting a Jr.A free agent. Donaghey is the only clear upgrade from what they had before. He's a lot better than Malatesta or Klebanskyj in the top 4. Any half decent team can compete with anybody "if they add the right pieces" ... that isn't a positive statement ... just a generalizing fact. If you want to keep score going forward we can do that ... but you won't have fun trying to pretend to be positive.
|
|
jazz
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 371
|
Post by jazz on Jan 26, 2016 12:07:48 GMT -4
In fairness, if we compare our results against the Titan, the Islanders or Cape Breton, Shannon and company have done a great job. We don't have all the information on the prices that were being asked for other players and I'm not sure that Shannon and team wanted to go for it this year. I heard that was Irving's decision. Hard to pin that all on Shannon.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 26, 2016 12:18:05 GMT -4
I am OK with adding Karabacek considering the price ... he came pretty cheap ... is clearly more of an impact than Glassl, and if nothing else gives us depth ... I can live with the additions of Richard and Pickard - minor moves to add depth. The Bouchard deal is looking like the disaster most of us predicted it would be ... I would say overall Shannon has done a decent job as GM, but you have to wonder, if we go down in flames and poor goaltending is the main culprit, will the Bouchard move cost him his job? He traded two 2nd rounders for a guy who has not been able to establish himself as our #1 guy - and not because the #2 has been playing well ... brutal ... If you are trying to build a contending team ... goaltending is the most important position. OK goaltending doesn't win ... it has to be solid ... but a team loaded at forward and on defense can hide "OK" goaltending. We don't have "OK" goaltending right now ... BMD was OK for awhile but has regressed but he is rookie and our 3rd option of the season. We aren't loaded on forward and defense ... strong offensively but we win games 6-4 against non-contenders ... not 6-2. So IMO if you are going to spend assets to contend then you better first have solid goaltending. Shannon dropped the ball and wasted assets by having a poor eye for talent. That to me is grounds for firing. I would have preffered that we not spend assets to get better ... I would have rather we stood pat and made moves for the future only. Moves for Bouchard and Karabacek and Richard are not for the future ... Pickard was but he won't be a key player at anytime in the future. Shannon has had his victories in FA additions ... but failures in trades and major failures in holding onto draft picks ... gave away another 1st this year and we have nothing to show for it. I agree with a lot of what you're saying. The main thing for me is, before you make any other deals, you make sure you find an above average Q goalie. If you can't get that, the rest is moot point. You can say that Billia or Montembault were expensive, but we ended up paying the equivalent of a 1st two 2nds, two 3rds(Crossman and O'Leary) and a 4th. Would all that not get you one of those goalies? It's easy to say "a good goalie would have cost too much" but when you look at what was paid without adding a top goalie...it wouldn't...
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 26, 2016 12:21:43 GMT -4
In fairness, if we compare our results against the Titan, the Islanders or Cape Breton, Shannon and company have done a great job. We don't have all the information on the prices that were being asked for other players and I'm not sure that Shannon and team wanted to go for it this year. I heard that was Irving's decision. Hard to pin that all on Shannon. Bathurst is built to be strong the next 2 years. A lot of their best players are 16-17-18(Kuznetsov Brisebois Pickard Morand etc). Charlottetown was too far down to buy big, so they only made minor additions, they still likely have most of their core back next year. Cape Breton made big additions up front, they are not strong enough on D or in nets to go all the way, in that sense they are on par with the WC. SJ is also a younger team, they are climbing and might catch the Cats with their games in hand. With Garland in likely his last yaer, this should be the "all in" year for the Cats.
|
|
|
Post by Arnold Slick on Jan 26, 2016 12:24:15 GMT -4
I was a bit surprised that Hodge called out the fact that they probably would have been better off sticking with Mann-Dixon and Dupre. Good for him because he's certainly correct.
Shannon has failed big time when it comes to goaltending during his tenure. Never found a competent back-up for Dubeau and now this season has been a complete mess. Prime assets wasted on below average goaltenders. If anyone in the organization really thought Bouchard was going to be the answer that just shows how completely out to lunch they are. Any joe blow could have watched a few Baie-Comeau highlight packages and realized he was not going to be an answer to anything.
It would be nice to keep around Shannon for free agents, but his trading and asset management has been well below par. This year could be the final straw.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 26, 2016 12:27:45 GMT -4
I was positive enough to say that if they added the right pieces they could compete with anybody...instead they threw away a bunch of assets to make the team not much better than it was 6 weeks ago. They could have probably added a better goalie just by getting a Jr.A free agent. Donaghey is the only clear upgrade from what they had before. He's a lot better than Malatesta or Klebanskyj in the top 4. Any half decent team can compete with anybody "if they add the right pieces" ... that isn't a positive statement ... just a generalizing fact. If you want to keep score going forward we can do that ... but you won't have fun trying to pretend to be positive. Regardless of what you seem to think, I call a spade a spade. If you want to win titles in this league, you HAVE to build through the draft. I have been harping on this for the last 5 years and you paint it as negative, just stating the facts. Euros, free agents and trades are a nice addition to any roster, but the "meat and potatoes" has to be strong drafting, and that includes 1st and 2nd round picks. In the 25-30 years I have followed the Q from close or afar, I don't recall anybody ever winning a Q title without having a bunch of early picks on the roster that they drafted and developed.
|
|
|
Post by Arnold Slick on Jan 26, 2016 12:27:56 GMT -4
This is deeper than Shannon making bad trades, players have been asking out ... something is brewing in the locker room and it needs to be addressed. Team loses a few games and here come the "players want out" post. There definitely were some players who wanted out and they were accommodated.
|
|
|
Post by Arnold Slick on Jan 26, 2016 12:37:55 GMT -4
If you are trying to build a contending team ... goaltending is the most important position. OK goaltending doesn't win ... it has to be solid ... but a team loaded at forward and on defense can hide "OK" goaltending. We don't have "OK" goaltending right now ... BMD was OK for awhile but has regressed but he is rookie and our 3rd option of the season. We aren't loaded on forward and defense ... strong offensively but we win games 6-4 against non-contenders ... not 6-2. So IMO if you are going to spend assets to contend then you better first have solid goaltending. Shannon dropped the ball and wasted assets by having a poor eye for talent. That to me is grounds for firing. I would have preffered that we not spend assets to get better ... I would have rather we stood pat and made moves for the future only. Moves for Bouchard and Karabacek and Richard are not for the future ... Pickard was but he won't be a key player at anytime in the future. Shannon has had his victories in FA additions ... but failures in trades and major failures in holding onto draft picks ... gave away another 1st this year and we have nothing to show for it. I agree with a lot of what you're saying. The main thing for me is, before you make any other deals, you make sure you find an above average Q goalie. If you can't get that, the rest is moot point. You can say that Billia or Montembault were expensive, but we ended up paying the equivalent of a 1st two 2nds, two 3rds(Crossman and O'Leary) and a 4th. Would all that not get you one of those goalies? It's easy to say "a good goalie would have cost too much" but when you look at what was paid without adding a top goalie...it wouldn't... From what I heard the price for Montembeault was astronomical and probably the big reason why he didn't end up being moved up. It's not a price I would have paid, but like you said if you're going to give up all those assets and NOT improve the biggest weakness then they might as well have just paid for a top goalie. This team looks a heck of a lot different with a top notch goaltender in the mix. The defensive play has been abysmal at times, but having such poor goaltending has an effect on the rest of the guys out there. You start playing afraid to make a mistake because you know any error will likely end up in the back of the net.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 26, 2016 12:51:18 GMT -4
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. The main thing for me is, before you make any other deals, you make sure you find an above average Q goalie. If you can't get that, the rest is moot point. You can say that Billia or Montembault were expensive, but we ended up paying the equivalent of a 1st two 2nds, two 3rds(Crossman and O'Leary) and a 4th. Would all that not get you one of those goalies? It's easy to say "a good goalie would have cost too much" but when you look at what was paid without adding a top goalie...it wouldn't... From what I heard the price for Montembeault was astronomical and probably the big reason why he didn't end up being moved up. It's not a price I would have paid, but like you said if you're going to give up all those assets and NOT improve the biggest weakness then they might as well have just paid for a top goalie. This team looks a heck of a lot different with a top notch goaltender in the mix. The defensive play has been abysmal at times, but having such poor goaltending has an effect on the rest of the guys out there. You start playing afraid to make a mistake because you know any error will likely end up in the back of the net. I think if you put an offer on the table with a 1st plus a 2nd and 3rd for Montembault a few days before the deadline, it gets the deal done. BBA have no reason to hold on to him. their team sucks and he will likely be playing pro next year. Billia is a bit different, but you can afford to pay more and maybe flip him somewhere(PEI?) in June and get back a 1st rounder(or about that) as he isn't drafted and will likely be back. Ideally in nets, you try and draft one in the top 2 rounds every 2 years so you're not constantly chasing for one by trade. It's a lot easier to fill depth scoring or depth on defense than it is to trade for a top goalie.
|
|