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Post by Jack Bauer on May 7, 2019 8:46:38 GMT -4
And on top of it all the toxic culture is now all over the womens side of the sport with the laughable entitlement of "we deserve to be paid more" despite all signs saying nobody really gives a shit about the womens game and it can't stand on its own revenue wise and has zero signs of ever doing so. Must say I'm a little shocked at this take from you. Especially since this had.. like... not much to do with the conversation at all. The womans game isn't profitable for many reasons, but a lot of those issues are fixable with time, and it's an area the game can grow and become more profitable. The push to expand the Woman's game isn't by any means altruistic. Sportsnet has been pushing this and there's no way the execs behind these decisions have anything other than the bottom line in mind. If the girls don't get paid, that means they need other jobs, which means they can't dedicate as much time into the sport as men do, which leads to the quality of the product being worse, which leads to less demand, which leads to the girls not getting paid, which leads to them needing other jobs... you get the idea. Break the cycle, give them a decent TV slot, and maybe it can become a profitable model. Obviously experts think this is the case, or else they wouldn't be dedicating time to trying to build a successful womans league. Myself, I personally would like to see a female pro league because I just think that would be pretty neat, but if you're going to go at it from a "rah rah capatalism grr" standpoint, like I said, it would be naive to believe that the push for the growth of womans hockey isn't driven by dollars. So I don't think that holds up either. The NHL game took a good 30-40 years before players earned what they considered livable wages so it's not easy and it's also far from guaranteed. I view this as if the local NBL of Canada players went on strike. They're also "professional". But at the end of the day it's also a form of entertainment that needs to stand on its own. My issue with the stance from the women is they have almost nothing to back up their claim that they should make more. The womens game is very limited to 4 or 5 major countries competition wise and even that's a stretch. It's a mediocre spectator sport both overall numbers and financially outside of the absolute pinnacle of the World Championships and Olympics. This isn't about "girls getting paid" necessarily. It's about athletes and entertainers getting what they deserve based on the attention and revenue they attract. CFL players need others jobs...I don't support them walking out either. And their league has been "saved" by TSN making it a huge property. But they still can't all survive off the CFL salary. And there's really no less demand because of it because there's an appetite for pro football in Canada. Where is the appetite for pro womens hockey in the world? Can we start say 8 teams and make it financially viable even with say a weekend afternoon or early evening weekly TV slot leading into the HNIC broadcast? I'd love to think yes...but is it realistic? The Toronto team in the CWHL averaged 358 fans. Montreal led the way with 1567. We can't run CHL teams off those budgets. I suppose this all falls under your "capitalism grr" point but there is nobody responsible for sinking tens of millions into something that even may not see a return for decades. So you need to examine the state of the game and the facts and figures behind existing leagues to try and make a case for the womens game being viable in any way. If the 200 or so speaking out now lead to drastic change and massive investment and a good salary...i'll be first in line to congratulate them. As a sports fan though my history of organized athletes is that they absolutely always cave and end up losing things vs gaining. In this case losing what they have could actually be worse then the alternative out there that nothing drastically changes for them. I could care less about any league surviving because it's male or female. I want to see something succeed that people support and enjoy watching which becomes profitable for all involved. But nobody is entitled to that because the opposite sex is so successful at it. And you can't just demand a hand out without some proof of growth that is hard to see based on the existing setup of the womens pro game.
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 7, 2019 8:51:02 GMT -4
I fully support the women for their stance on this and I think it makes perfect sense for the NHL to jump in getting one north american pro league for women up and running..... if people decide the game is not entertaining enough or not worth their money then so be it... it will die or someone will once again recreate the niche market league they already had and life goes on as for Holland..... i actually think it's a pretty good hire here..... time will tell what he is able to achieve but on the surface it at least isn't another rehash of the old boys club in Edmonton again.... obviously this is a very important hire because if things don't improve greatly in the next 2 years max... mcDavid will be wanting out and that would be disastrous toxic fanbases are everywhere..... maybe we have worse ones for hockey but American fanbases are just as bad for other sports.... i think they probably are pretty bad for hockey too we just don't necessarily see them here as we get fed our own teams drivel instead.... and the reality is you have major sports networks dedicated to competing with one another so they hire every figurehead who has any connection to the sport to disect every rumour and create rumours of their own to fill time on the networks The NHL is the only group who can put forth an honest effort and already has the people in place to push it and grow it. And to me the absolute only way the womens game works is with huge marketing and games placed as a lead in for HNIC on weekends, especially now with a national Sunday night broadcast opening up 2 late afternoon spots that otherwise are usually pretty dead in the TV world.
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Post by SteveUL on May 7, 2019 9:37:09 GMT -4
I fully support the women for their stance on this and I think it makes perfect sense for the NHL to jump in getting one north american pro league for women up and running..... if people decide the game is not entertaining enough or not worth their money then so be it... it will die or someone will once again recreate the niche market league they already had and life goes on Didn't they already have a league that folded due to financial issues ? That seems to be the answer to me. Somebody else compared this to the WNBA. For me as a non-basketball fan, I see very little difference between men's and women's basketball. Sure the men are significantly bigger and stronger and can jump higher, but the women are very talented as well and it is the same game. But comparing men's and women's hockey is day and night. The rules aren't even the same ... one of the great draws of hockey is the physical style they play ... absent in the women's game. Watching ladies hockey at the club level is no better than watching boys Bantam AA. Ladies hockey is enjoyable when it is the best in Canada vs the best in the US or Finland, but at the club level the talent pool gets very watered down. There are several levels of men's hockey under the NHL (CHL, CIS, ECHL, AHL, Major Midget, Highschool, etc.) that are significantly more entertaining than ladies professional hockey would be.
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Post by bois on May 7, 2019 10:33:51 GMT -4
I fully support the women for their stance on this and I think it makes perfect sense for the NHL to jump in getting one north american pro league for women up and running..... if people decide the game is not entertaining enough or not worth their money then so be it... it will die or someone will once again recreate the niche market league they already had and life goes on Didn't they already have a league that folded due to financial issues ? That seems to be the answer to me. Somebody else compared this to the WNBA. For me as a non-basketball fan, I see very little difference between men's and women's basketball. Sure the men are significantly bigger and stronger and can jump higher, but the women are very talented as well and it is the same game. But comparing men's and women's hockey is day and night. The rules aren't even the same ... one of the great draws of hockey is the physical style they play ... absent in the women's game. Watching ladies hockey at the club level is no better than watching boys Bantam AA. Ladies hockey is enjoyable when it is the best in Canada vs the best in the US or Finland, but at the club level the talent pool gets very watered down. There are several levels of men's hockey under the NHL (CHL, CIS, ECHL, AHL, Major Midget, Highschool, etc.) that are significantly more entertaining than ladies professional hockey would be. i don't consider it as a sport for me per se.... but for young women.... gives them a reason to seriously pursue their hockey dreams and a league that they can follow as closely as i followed the NHL growing up
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 7, 2019 11:09:52 GMT -4
Didn't they already have a league that folded due to financial issues ? That seems to be the answer to me. Somebody else compared this to the WNBA. For me as a non-basketball fan, I see very little difference between men's and women's basketball. Sure the men are significantly bigger and stronger and can jump higher, but the women are very talented as well and it is the same game. But comparing men's and women's hockey is day and night. The rules aren't even the same ... one of the great draws of hockey is the physical style they play ... absent in the women's game. Watching ladies hockey at the club level is no better than watching boys Bantam AA. Ladies hockey is enjoyable when it is the best in Canada vs the best in the US or Finland, but at the club level the talent pool gets very watered down. There are several levels of men's hockey under the NHL (CHL, CIS, ECHL, AHL, Major Midget, Highschool, etc.) that are significantly more entertaining than ladies professional hockey would be. i don't consider it as a sport for me per se.... but for young women.... gives them a reason to seriously pursue their hockey dreams and a league that they can follow as closely as i followed the NHL growing up And that's great to give people more outlets and dreams to follow but is the womens game even marketed to women? It never feels that way to me when watching a womens worlds or olympics. It always feel like it's marketed to everyone yet I feel there should be a huge emphasis to get women watching that I'm not seeing reflected in the marketing efforts. The exception being the Olympics where more non-sports fans seem to have an interest in every sport being played. Tennis fans I know seem to like men and women on par. UFC introduced women and thanks to 1 fighter it really took off but is now crashing back down to earth. The co-ed sports that are out there and successful like Tennis and Golf to a bit of a lesser degree actually have a lot of the same complaints as womens hockey yet they survive even though the men are bigger, faster, and more powerful and the women are more graceful and technical in how they approach the sport. WNBA is the best comparison for this but they also have a giant feeder system in place for decades now which is a huge advantage. And with that feeder system comes a built in fan base. The best womens player from a top NCAA school has way more attention and hype then a top womens hockey player I feel like. Some grass roots effort to start to flip that script is what is needed. More of a feeder system would be a huge start as I think that's the WNBA's biggest advantage that isn't talked about much and I don't think NCAA womens hockey has quite the same following or ability to reach people.
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Post by hal on May 15, 2019 23:36:55 GMT -4
Former Edmonton Oilers Head Coach Ralph Kreuger gets the Buffalo Gig .......interesting note , I thought he was still Coaching in Switzerland .....his current job is Chairman of Southampton FC of the English Premier League .......from the Soccer Pitch to an NHL Arena ....Original if nothing else .
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Post by bois on May 16, 2019 8:30:14 GMT -4
Former Edmonton Oilers Head Coach Ralph Kreuger gets the Buffalo Gig .......interesting note , I thought he was still Coaching in Switzerland .....his current job is Chairman of Southampton FC of the English Premier League .......from the Soccer Pitch to an NHL Arena ....Original if nothing else . He's got the endorsement of Eichel.... seems to be the guy running the show in Buffalo anyway my mike commodore hot take.... Buffalo never makes a serious playoff run with Jack Eichel as their go to guy
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