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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 11:06:05 GMT -4
If Bobby doesn't have the balls to move Ehlers Mooseheads fans might as well add at least a year or two to the process for actually being serious contenders for a Q title. I hope Bobby realizes this fact. Easy for us to say that when it's not our team/investment lol. I get what you're saying and agree, but it's not always a cut and dry decision. Yeah I know its not my investment per se but as a fan and when I look at MY investment as far as $$ goes and time I see the possibility of a slow rebuilding process in the future. We've gone though it before and it ended rather sweet but there was some luck involved. The lottery draw between BC and RN- RN was much less likely to trade Mackinnon away than BC was... or at least said that. Luckily BC won the draw and then RN realized Drouin wasnt reporting so the Moose moved up to pick him and still had enough to trade for Nathan a month later. Lewiston folding- the Mooseheads gained the most of any Q team from that team's demise. Critchlow would have been their captain but he came to us and was a great leader to the core of players who won it all a year later. We got Fournier a year later for peanuts and he was amazing for us. But the big fish we got from Lewiston was/is Fucale with their 1st rounder that was available. Cam did the rebuild right with what was lacking from not being able to sell in 2009 and accumulated/hoarded picks but we did too well in 2010-2011 and were lucky with how things worked out to trade up to get Drouin, still have enough to get Nate from BC and get the goalie we needed with Fucale. Building another championship team will no doubt have some luck involved but if you stack the odds in your favor with great asset management, in this case trading away marketable assets in a noncontending year and rebuilding even though the fairweather fans wont understand it and will stay away, you bring in good luck or at least can withstand some blunders like a Ciampini in 2010.
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Post by bois on Nov 6, 2014 11:17:42 GMT -4
Another small thing to consider here is we can be looking at a top 20 euro pick this year. which is a great pick to have now that you can't trade the picks anymore. It might be better to trade him and use that pick. Ehlers being a first rounder goes on a special list anyways doesn't he?
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Post by bois on Nov 6, 2014 11:18:16 GMT -4
I cant believe nobody has mentioned this yet, but a few weeks back when we were down in Cape Breton playing their side of the home/home, Pat McNeil had an interview with John Moore during one of the intermissions and John mentioned something about Ehlers maybe having a no movement clause. Did anyone else hear anything about that. Everyone is talking about selling assets, when one of our biggest may not be able to even be moved. It has been said but all cam has to do is ask him if he alright with it. I even threw out a scenario which I will do again. Say Quebec calls makes an offer Cam would likely call the Jets say Quebec is looking to acquirer Elhers. They offered us a good deal but he has a NTC. Then the Jets say we want him to go to Quebec and play for a championship, we will take care of the NTC. They talk to Nik and tell him we think it's best for you development to go there and well Bobs your Uncle! That's the long way mind you. Cam could just go right to him say look Quebec has asked about you what do think? He say yes then it becomes way easier. Oh and another thing John Moore isn't the best sores. He's usually the last one to know anything. i'm sure some dude on a messageboard is a muych better sores lol
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Nov 6, 2014 11:20:37 GMT -4
Easy for us to say that when it's not our team/investment lol. I get what you're saying and agree, but it's not always a cut and dry decision. Yeah I know its not my investment per se but as a fan and when I look at MY investment as far as $$ goes and time I see the possibility of a slow rebuilding process in the future. We've gone though it before and it ended rather sweet but there was some luck involved. The lottery draw between BC and RN- RN was much less likely to trade Mackinnon away than BC was... or at least said that. Luckily BC won the draw and then RN realized Drouin wasnt reporting so the Moose moved up to pick him and still had enough to trade for Nathan a month later. Lewiston folding- the Mooseheads gained the most of any Q team from that team's demise. Critchlow would have been their captain but he came to us and was a great leader to the core of players who won it all a year later. We got Fournier a year later for peanuts and he was amazing for us. But the big fish we got from Lewiston was/is Fucale with their 1st rounder that was available. Cam did the rebuild right with what was lacking from not being able to sell in 2009 and accumulated/hoarded picks but we did too well in 2010-2011 and were lucky with how things worked out to trade up to get Drouin, still have enough to get Nate from BC and get the goalie we needed with Fucale. Building another championship team will no doubt have some luck involved but if you stack the odds in your favor with great asset management, in this case trading away marketable assets in a noncontending year and rebuilding even though the fairweather fans wont understand it and will stay away, you bring in good luck or at least can withstand some blunders like a Ciampini in 2010. We certainly fell into luck with Lewiston's folding. It worked out basically perfect for our rebuild schedule. All teams benefited in some way of course, but adding our star 4 year goalie for free and a captain who really changed the mentality of this team at the right time, was huge. Bottom line this year is that right now we are headed towards a much worse year next year than this year if we stand pat. I would hope management would realize this and make the obvious trades. With Ehlers - you can move him this year to add to the stockpile of picks/players in the trade period, or hold him for some goals/fans and hope to trade him next year instead. You then run he risk of him making Winnipeg though. With a potential early euro pick (and order of draft in favour of the Q), and the Q hosting the Memorial Cup with nobody really looking like a runaway favourite at this point - I think we should go all in with trades this year, including Ehlers. It would be bold, but it would make the most sense. Bobby Smith saw the benefits of building a strong team for 3 years that the city are proud of ($$$), and most fans are still happy from the past few years that a trade-off/bottom-out rebuild for 1/2 a season should be accepted now more than ever.
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Post by Gman on Nov 6, 2014 11:24:28 GMT -4
Pascal Leclaire was traded during the Christmas trade period to Montreal, and he was a marquee player at the time. Logan MacMillan was traded to Rimouski for a huge group of picks during the Christmas trade period. Knotek was probably the only player of value Cam could have traded and didn't, but he was pretty much our offense, so maybe not a good idea to trade him away. Small correction...Leclaire was traded at the draft. Macmillan is probably the closest thing to a big sell off we did. That was of course the year after the debacle in 07-08....we were in a worse situation than an expansion team at that time. Macmillan was our only marketable asset and he was sold for I think 4 picks. I think the reason people are uneasy is that we have never really "sold" at Christmas time. The season that stands out was the year we had Carnegie/Brine. But other than that, at least in recent history, our teams were so bad in down years we really had nothing to sell. This year is the test for Russell for sure. No chance this team is competing for a championship, and we have several marketable assets. Will b interesting to see what he does. I do worry the market for Fucale might not be as big as we think. Obviously some would be interested, but if there are only a couple of teams bidding, his return might not be what we are thinking we could get for a stud. Yes you're right- my memory was a bit foggy, but now I remember wondering who would get his development money when he was drafted to the NHL. And what team would he be announced from (think they announced both Montreal and Halifax but I could be wrong)
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Post by statsman18 on Nov 6, 2014 12:10:20 GMT -4
Another small thing to consider here is we can be looking at a top 20 euro pick this year. which is a great pick to have now that you can't trade the picks anymore. It might be better to trade him and use that pick. Ehlers being a first rounder goes on a special list anyways doesn't he? Actually I think your right. I totally forgot about that. So we can keep him and still have a good pick to use. Or we can trade him and probably get an even better pick.
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Post by mooseinfo on Nov 6, 2014 12:21:16 GMT -4
Easy for us to say that when it's not our team/investment lol. I get what you're saying and agree, but it's not always a cut and dry decision. Yeah I know its not my investment per se but as a fan and when I look at MY investment as far as $$ goes and time I see the possibility of a slow rebuilding process in the future. We've gone though it before and it ended rather sweet but there was some luck involved. The lottery draw between BC and RN- RN was much less likely to trade Mackinnon away than BC was... or at least said that. Luckily BC won the draw and then RN realized Drouin wasnt reporting so the Moose moved up to pick him and still had enough to trade for Nathan a month later. Lewiston folding- the Mooseheads gained the most of any Q team from that team's demise. Critchlow would have been their captain but he came to us and was a great leader to the core of players who won it all a year later. We got Fournier a year later for peanuts and he was amazing for us. But the big fish we got from Lewiston was/is Fucale with their 1st rounder that was available. Cam did the rebuild right with what was lacking from not being able to sell in 2009 and accumulated/hoarded picks but we did too well in 2010-2011 and were lucky with how things worked out to trade up to get Drouin, still have enough to get Nate from BC and get the goalie we needed with Fucale. Building another championship team will no doubt have some luck involved but if you stack the odds in your favor with great asset management, in this case trading away marketable assets in a noncontending year and rebuilding even though the fairweather fans wont understand it and will stay away, you bring in good luck or at least can withstand some blunders like a Ciampini in 2010. Not sure on your dispersal draft having Halifax as gained most and Critchlow was not direct. Fournier was part of it too but what many of those players brought in trade helped lots of teams. Dispersal Draft Results: Round 1: 1. Rouyn-Noranda: Dillon Fournier. 2. Baie-Comeau: Samuel Carrier. 3. Shawinigan: Michael Chaput. 4. Halifax: 1st round pick - 11th overall. 5. Val d'Or: Samuel Henley. 6. Chicoutimi: Etienne Brodeur. 7. Rimouski: Francis Beauvillier. 8. Victoriaville: Samuel Finn. 9. Victoriaville: Stefan Fournier. 10. Moncton: Chris Lalonde. 11. Shawinigan: Pierre-Olivier Morin. 12. Acadie-Bathurst: Matthew Bissonette. 13. Gatineau: Antoine Bibeau. 14. Drummondville: Bryce Milson. 15. Quebec: 3rd round pick - 53rd overall. 16. Montréal: Kirill Kabanov. 17. Saint John: Ian Saad. Round 2: 18. Saint John: 4th round pick - 68th overall. 19. Montreal: Jess Tanguay. 20. Quebec: 5th round pick - 78th overall. 21. Drummondville: Brayden Wood. 22. Gatineau: Zach Evans-Renaud. 23. Acadie-Bathurst: 6th round pick - 101st overall. 24. Shawinigan: Cole Hawes. 25. Moncton: Alex Safaris. 26. P.E.I.: (pass) 27. Victoriaville: Cameron Critchlow. 28. Rimouski: 8th round pick - 137th overall. 29. Chicoutimi: (pass) 30. Val d'Or: 9th round pick - 154th overall. 31. Halifax: Jonathan Parisien. 32. Cape Breton: 9th round pick - 155th overall. 33. Baie-Comeau: (pass) 34. Rouyn-Noranda: (pass)
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Post by statsman18 on Nov 6, 2014 12:28:00 GMT -4
It has been said but all cam has to do is ask him if he alright with it. I even threw out a scenario which I will do again. Say Quebec calls makes an offer Cam would likely call the Jets say Quebec is looking to acquirer Elhers. They offered us a good deal but he has a NTC. Then the Jets say we want him to go to Quebec and play for a championship, we will take care of the NTC. They talk to Nik and tell him we think it's best for you development to go there and well Bobs your Uncle! That's the long way mind you. Cam could just go right to him say look Quebec has asked about you what do think? He say yes then it becomes way easier. Oh and another thing John Moore isn't the best sores. He's usually the last one to know anything. i'm sure some dude on a messageboard is a muych better sores lol I never said that now did. Been following this team from day one. Which unless you live in Halifax means You have only been around since PEI got a team I'm willing to bet. Mr Moore has been around the team that whole time. He in that time has always been the last to report anything team related, and he's always a mile off on any rumours. Being here in Halifax to we get to hear him local on radio talking about the team too. He is more of a fan and seems to try and be one of the boys then a reporter. Willy Palov is one of the better ones that is English to follow in the league for that kind of stuff. Also now the Moose have a Media guy who is way better with the info on players then John is. His name is Scott MacIntosh. He is not going to give any Rumours being hired from the team and all but he seems to be the teams way of pushing Moore out a little more. Where it use to be Moore talking on the local stations about games, away teams, and promotions it's now Scotty.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 12:34:04 GMT -4
Yeah I know its not my investment per se but as a fan and when I look at MY investment as far as $$ goes and time I see the possibility of a slow rebuilding process in the future. We've gone though it before and it ended rather sweet but there was some luck involved. The lottery draw between BC and RN- RN was much less likely to trade Mackinnon away than BC was... or at least said that. Luckily BC won the draw and then RN realized Drouin wasnt reporting so the Moose moved up to pick him and still had enough to trade for Nathan a month later. Lewiston folding- the Mooseheads gained the most of any Q team from that team's demise. Critchlow would have been their captain but he came to us and was a great leader to the core of players who won it all a year later. We got Fournier a year later for peanuts and he was amazing for us. But the big fish we got from Lewiston was/is Fucale with their 1st rounder that was available. Cam did the rebuild right with what was lacking from not being able to sell in 2009 and accumulated/hoarded picks but we did too well in 2010-2011 and were lucky with how things worked out to trade up to get Drouin, still have enough to get Nate from BC and get the goalie we needed with Fucale. Building another championship team will no doubt have some luck involved but if you stack the odds in your favor with great asset management, in this case trading away marketable assets in a noncontending year and rebuilding even though the fairweather fans wont understand it and will stay away, you bring in good luck or at least can withstand some blunders like a Ciampini in 2010. Not sure on your dispersal draft having Halifax as gained most and Critchlow was not direct. Fournier was part of it too but what many of those players brought in trade helped lots of teams. Dispersal Draft Results: Round 1: 1. Rouyn-Noranda: Dillon Fournier. 2. Baie-Comeau: Samuel Carrier. 3. Shawinigan: Michael Chaput. 4. Halifax: 1st round pick - 11th overall. 5. Val d'Or: Samuel Henley. 6. Chicoutimi: Etienne Brodeur. 7. Rimouski: Francis Beauvillier. 8. Victoriaville: Samuel Finn. 9. Victoriaville: Stefan Fournier. 10. Moncton: Chris Lalonde. 11. Shawinigan: Pierre-Olivier Morin. 12. Acadie-Bathurst: Matthew Bissonette. 13. Gatineau: Antoine Bibeau. 14. Drummondville: Bryce Milson. 15. Quebec: 3rd round pick - 53rd overall. 16. Montréal: Kirill Kabanov. 17. Saint John: Ian Saad. Round 2: 18. Saint John: 4th round pick - 68th overall. 19. Montreal: Jess Tanguay. 20. Quebec: 5th round pick - 78th overall. 21. Drummondville: Brayden Wood. 22. Gatineau: Zach Evans-Renaud. 23. Acadie-Bathurst: 6th round pick - 101st overall. 24. Shawinigan: Cole Hawes. 25. Moncton: Alex Safaris. 26. P.E.I.: (pass) 27. Victoriaville: Cameron Critchlow. 28. Rimouski: 8th round pick - 137th overall. 29. Chicoutimi: (pass) 30. Val d'Or: 9th round pick - 154th overall. 31. Halifax: Jonathan Parisien. 32. Cape Breton: 9th round pick - 155th overall. 33. Baie-Comeau: (pass) 34. Rouyn-Noranda: (pass) 1 year of Critchlow. 1 year of Fournier and 4 years of Fucale with the Lewiston pick. Think about it. EDIT- if Lewiston hadn't folded Critchlow would have been a 20 on their 2011-2012 team and Fournier a 20 on their 2012-2013 team and we don't get the opportunity to get the pick that allows us to draft Fucale.
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Post by mooseinfo on Nov 6, 2014 12:35:59 GMT -4
i'm sure some dude on a messageboard is a muych better sores lol I never said that now did. Been following this team from day one. Which unless you live in Halifax means You have only been around since PEI got a team I'm willing to bet. Mr Moore has been around the team that whole time. He in that time has always been the last to report anything team related, and he's always a mile off on any rumours. Being here in Halifax to we get to hear him local on radio talking about the team too. He is more of a fan and seems to try and be one of the boys then a reporter. Willy Palov is one of the better ones that is English to follow in the league for that kind of stuff. Also now the Moose have a Media guy who is way better with the info on players then John is. His name is Scott MacIntosh. He is not going to give any Rumours being hired from the team and all but he seems to be the teams way of pushing Moore out a little more. Where it use to be Moore talking on the local stations about games, away teams, and promotions it's now Scotty. If you listen to Moore's radio show you get more info than all those people you mentioned combined especially on the road. His guests are often the ones who break the news in Quebec and its often the trading partner of the Moose who leak it first.
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Post by catnut on Nov 6, 2014 12:41:17 GMT -4
i'm sure some dude on a messageboard is a muych better sores lol I never said that now did. Been following this team from day one. Which unless you live in Halifax means You have only been around since PEI got a team I'm willing to bet. Mr Moore has been around the team that whole time. He in that time has always been the last to report anything team related, and he's always a mile off on any rumours. Being here in Halifax to we get to hear him local on radio talking about the team too. He is more of a fan and seems to try and be one of the boys then a reporter. Willy Palov is one of the better ones that is English to follow in the league for that kind of stuff. Also now the Moose have a Media guy who is way better with the info on players then John is. His name is Scott MacIntosh. He is not going to give any Rumours being hired from the team and all but he seems to be the teams way of pushing Moore out a little more. Where it use to be Moore talking on the local stations about games, away teams, and promotions it's now Scotty. Still, good sores are worse than no sores at all.
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Post by statsman18 on Nov 6, 2014 12:43:03 GMT -4
Yeah I know its not my investment per se but as a fan and when I look at MY investment as far as $$ goes and time I see the possibility of a slow rebuilding process in the future. We've gone though it before and it ended rather sweet but there was some luck involved. The lottery draw between BC and RN- RN was much less likely to trade Mackinnon away than BC was... or at least said that. Luckily BC won the draw and then RN realized Drouin wasnt reporting so the Moose moved up to pick him and still had enough to trade for Nathan a month later. Lewiston folding- the Mooseheads gained the most of any Q team from that team's demise. Critchlow would have been their captain but he came to us and was a great leader to the core of players who won it all a year later. We got Fournier a year later for peanuts and he was amazing for us. But the big fish we got from Lewiston was/is Fucale with their 1st rounder that was available. Cam did the rebuild right with what was lacking from not being able to sell in 2009 and accumulated/hoarded picks but we did too well in 2010-2011 and were lucky with how things worked out to trade up to get Drouin, still have enough to get Nate from BC and get the goalie we needed with Fucale. Building another championship team will no doubt have some luck involved but if you stack the odds in your favor with great asset management, in this case trading away marketable assets in a noncontending year and rebuilding even though the fairweather fans wont understand it and will stay away, you bring in good luck or at least can withstand some blunders like a Ciampini in 2010. We certainly fell into luck with Lewiston's folding. It worked out basically perfect for our rebuild schedule. All teams benefited in some way of course, but adding our star 4 year goalie for free and a captain who really changed the mentality of this team at the right time, was huge. Bottom line this year is that right now we are headed towards a much worse year next year than this year if we stand pat. I would hope management would realize this and make the obvious trades. With Ehlers - you can move him this year to add to the stockpile of picks/players in the trade period, or hold him for some goals/fans and hope to trade him next year instead. You then run he risk of him making Winnipeg though. With a potential early euro pick (and order of draft in favour of the Q), and the Q hosting the Memorial Cup with nobody really looking like a runaway favourite at this point - I think we should go all in with trades this year, including Ehlers. It would be bold, but it would make the most sense. Bobby Smith saw the benefits of building a strong team for 3 years that the city are proud of ($$$), and most fans are still happy from the past few years that a trade-off/bottom-out rebuild for 1/2 a season should be accepted now more than ever. Here's the question that I would like answered. What does this draft class look like? Is it deep like 2011 and 13 or is it a dud year like 2010 and 12 were?
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Post by mooseinfo on Nov 6, 2014 12:45:07 GMT -4
Not sure on your dispersal draft having Halifax as gained most and Critchlow was not direct. Fournier was part of it too but what many of those players brought in trade helped lots of teams. Dispersal Draft Results: Round 1: 1. Rouyn-Noranda: Dillon Fournier. 2. Baie-Comeau: Samuel Carrier. 3. Shawinigan: Michael Chaput. 4. Halifax: 1st round pick - 11th overall. 5. Val d'Or: Samuel Henley. 6. Chicoutimi: Etienne Brodeur. 7. Rimouski: Francis Beauvillier. 8. Victoriaville: Samuel Finn. 9. Victoriaville: Stefan Fournier. 10. Moncton: Chris Lalonde. 11. Shawinigan: Pierre-Olivier Morin. 12. Acadie-Bathurst: Matthew Bissonette. 13. Gatineau: Antoine Bibeau. 14. Drummondville: Bryce Milson. 15. Quebec: 3rd round pick - 53rd overall. 16. Montréal: Kirill Kabanov. 17. Saint John: Ian Saad. Round 2: 18. Saint John: 4th round pick - 68th overall. 19. Montreal: Jess Tanguay. 20. Quebec: 5th round pick - 78th overall. 21. Drummondville: Brayden Wood. 22. Gatineau: Zach Evans-Renaud. 23. Acadie-Bathurst: 6th round pick - 101st overall. 24. Shawinigan: Cole Hawes. 25. Moncton: Alex Safaris. 26. P.E.I.: (pass) 27. Victoriaville: Cameron Critchlow. 28. Rimouski: 8th round pick - 137th overall. 29. Chicoutimi: (pass) 30. Val d'Or: 9th round pick - 154th overall. 31. Halifax: Jonathan Parisien. 32. Cape Breton: 9th round pick - 155th overall. 33. Baie-Comeau: (pass) 34. Rouyn-Noranda: (pass) 1 year of Critchlow. 1 year of Fournier and 4 years of Fucale with the Lewiston pick. Think about it. You are thinking too much about it lol. There are players that brought titles on there own Antoine Bibeau indirectly and others that could this year. Players that brought picks that could bring championships in 2017 lol......Russell had to trade for those players. They did NOT come from Lewiston. People make history not the other way around.
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Post by Gman on Nov 6, 2014 12:47:44 GMT -4
I never said that now did. Been following this team from day one. Which unless you live in Halifax means You have only been around since PEI got a team I'm willing to bet. Mr Moore has been around the team that whole time. He in that time has always been the last to report anything team related, and he's always a mile off on any rumours. Being here in Halifax to we get to hear him local on radio talking about the team too. He is more of a fan and seems to try and be one of the boys then a reporter. Willy Palov is one of the better ones that is English to follow in the league for that kind of stuff. Also now the Moose have a Media guy who is way better with the info on players then John is. His name is Scott MacIntosh. He is not going to give any Rumours being hired from the team and all but he seems to be the teams way of pushing Moore out a little more. Where it use to be Moore talking on the local stations about games, away teams, and promotions it's now Scotty. Still, good sores are worse than no sores at all. What kind of sores do you have that it's good? Any time I get sores I get worried.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 13:16:05 GMT -4
1 year of Critchlow. 1 year of Fournier and 4 years of Fucale with the Lewiston pick. Think about it. You are thinking too much about it lol. There are players that brought titles on there own Antoine Bibeau indirectly and others that could this year. Players that brought picks that could bring championships in 2017 lol......Russell had to trade for those players. They did NOT come from Lewiston. People make history not the other way around. We got Critchlow and Fournier, players which probably wouldn't have been available and certainly not at the prices Cam paid and we got an extra 1st round pick and got Zach and none of the other G from his draft class were at his level as 17 year old goaltenders- Belanger, Desrosiers and certainly not Cadorette.
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