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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 22, 2022 15:18:25 GMT -4
You also forget other factors at play Sly knows the player (Biggar) very well Squires was acquired cheap because he simply is not very good and was dealt closer to home to a team that needed vet dmen more than the Eagles did lol Since we're now buying after making trades that predictably lined up with our cycle....clearly we also still needed a vet. People here are arguing we needed 1 2 months ago yet have no issue with giving away one that we had.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 15:22:34 GMT -4
JEagle is bang on, finding a quality 17/18 is not easy given the cycle of the teams where these prospects currently play. Here is some speculation, make a suggestion on who we should get rather then just critique what is done. I like the Bigger move, if he is hear for 1.5 years he is an upgrade in every way on what Buteau was offering this roster, and the cost was minimal to get it. Sly is stuck still cleaning up the mess left by the previous regime, so working around a core while band-aiding a few deals to find the right fit is about the best he can do. Move a vet forward you say...who and where? Who needs what we have to offer right now for forwards? We have 2 solid trade chips Langlois and Buteau, he did great on Buteau, let's see what happens with Langlois...to be fair to Sly, Buteau and Langlois are the first 2 deals where he has full control..everything else up until now has been reactionary. I say he is 1 for 1...anxious to see what Langlois brings. Here is where we disagree: The cost was not minimal. We traded 2 top 50 picks....from 17th place. Nothing minimal about that. We did get a minimal return for Squires though who would have fit that checkbox of 19yr old vet. Here is where we disagree, the cost was not minimal, but we paid for what we needed most, leadership, accountability, structure and a low maintenance player who can actually help with the development cycle. Time to move away from "guys who can eat up minutes", worst analogy I have ever heard when trying to build a winning team.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 22, 2022 15:22:37 GMT -4
so we move Langlois , do we have to trade again for the second hole or stay with what we have and miss the playoffs which i don't think is a big deal ,play four games against the Remparts .i know sly wants to make the playoffs. At this point making the playoffs is a complete crap shoot. There is no making a move to ensure you're a playoff team when there's so many variables in play. Sounds like just making sure the core of kids we're developing want to be here is step 1 in that. Since when did making the Q playoffs become a goal worth tossing parts of a rebuild away for? This isn't the NHL where only 50% make it and there's way more parity. We're buying for the best shot at being embarrassed. You'd make more sense to me arguing to keep Langlois and go for a better seed and try to win a round. At least that makes some financial sense.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 22, 2022 15:26:58 GMT -4
Here is where we disagree: The cost was not minimal. We traded 2 top 50 picks....from 17th place. Nothing minimal about that. We did get a minimal return for Squires though who would have fit that checkbox of 19yr old vet. Here is where we disagree, the cost was not minimal, but we paid for what we needed most, leadership, accountability, structure and a low maintenance player who can actually help with the development cycle. Time to move away from "guys who can eat up minutes", worst analogy I have ever heard when trying to build a winning team. It doesnt help the development cycle if the asset you're giving up 2 good assets for is too old to peak with your core. A solid 20yr old for a fraction of the cost accomplishes the same things on this team. I'm not talking about eating minutes. I'm willing to let the kids eat some minutes...isn't that a reason for having Thurston? I'm talking about giving away assets for a 19yr old. Leadership and accountability are not things you trade for while in 17th place. They should be things you're developing. You can't develop it if you keep trading everything away and try to find things like leadership elsewhere. If the player was half of what you're saying.....we should be immediately trading him to a contender and getting our assets back that actually line up with the cycle.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 15:28:33 GMT -4
Who in Cape is giving anyone a clean slate to do it properly? Sly was handed a mess, he has been putting band-aids on previous mistakes for 6 months now , while he gets hammered for trying to bring in some leadership while he works to trade our Captain. The reason this team is not in a play-off spot runs far deeper the players Sly brought in to help.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 22, 2022 15:34:04 GMT -4
Who in Cape is giving anyone a clean slate to do it properly? Sly was handed a mess, he has been putting band-aids on previous mistakes for 6 months now , while he gets hammered for trying to bring in some leadership while he works to trade our Captain. The reason this team is not in a play-off spot runs far deeper the players Sly brought in to help. So we're on the same page that we're not doing it properly. I do think Sly was given a clear mandate to be able to do it properly but he only knows 1 way and this is why everyone warned us about him as a GM. He's getting hammered for making a bad decision. He could have easily worked this roster to keep a 19yr old vet he had or position himself to add a cheap overage D to accomplish the leadership aspect you keep saying Biggar brings. A reason this team is so bad is they have a President who keeps overseeing all this and allows it all to happen. If the mandate to do a full rebuild starting with the 3 2022 1sts wasn't clear then we absolutely hired the wrong people. When else is it time to accept that if not when you're gifted a lottery win and have a pile of young kids and picks and little else? We're making it harder then it has to be. Considerably.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 15:41:25 GMT -4
Here is where we disagree, the cost was not minimal, but we paid for what we needed most, leadership, accountability, structure and a low maintenance player who can actually help with the development cycle. Time to move away from "guys who can eat up minutes", worst analogy I have ever heard when trying to build a winning team. It doesnt help the development cycle if the asset you're giving up 2 good assets for is too old to peak with your core. A solid 20yr old for a fraction of the cost accomplishes the same things on this team. I'm not talking about eating minutes. I'm willing to let the kids eat some minutes...isn't that a reason for having Thurston? I'm talking about giving away assets for a 19yr old. Leadership and accountability are not things you trade for while in 17th place. They should be things you're developing. You can't develop it if you keep trading everything away and try to find things like leadership elsewhere.If the player was half of what you're saying.....we should be immediately trading him to a contender and getting our assets back that actually line up with the cycle. Do you honestly believe that?
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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 22, 2022 16:21:00 GMT -4
It doesnt help the development cycle if the asset you're giving up 2 good assets for is too old to peak with your core. A solid 20yr old for a fraction of the cost accomplishes the same things on this team. I'm not talking about eating minutes. I'm willing to let the kids eat some minutes...isn't that a reason for having Thurston? I'm talking about giving away assets for a 19yr old. Leadership and accountability are not things you trade for while in 17th place. They should be things you're developing. You can't develop it if you keep trading everything away and try to find things like leadership elsewhere.If the player was half of what you're saying.....we should be immediately trading him to a contender and getting our assets back that actually line up with the cycle. Do you honestly believe that? Yes. Long term if you're not developing leaders you're just a feeder team for the rest of the league. Needing to acquire leadership...to the point of overpaying for it...is an example of how far we've fallen. If you need to acquire leadership...find it in your overagers or on veterans on waivers or attainable for lesser assets than a 2nd+3rd. Dont overpay for it when the kids you think you can contend with are still 16 and 17 and you're in 17th place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 17:00:57 GMT -4
Maybe leadership is like your analogy with Ivan and Johnson's game, you can just turn it on when you need it, not every young hockey player turns into a good leader. Find it in your overagers...LOL...I have said it all along, finding a good 20 who can help a rebuilding team is not easy, most of these guys have their own agenda...rather them cycle thru them...pay a bit a get it done right.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 23, 2022 10:55:58 GMT -4
Maybe leadership is like your analogy with Ivan and Johnson's game, you can just turn it on when you need it, not every young hockey player turns into a good leader. Find it in your overagers...LOL...I have said it all along, finding a good 20 who can help a rebuilding team is not easy, most of these guys have their own agenda...rather them cycle thru them...pay a bit a get it done right. I'd rather a solid 20yr old leader with less production then a guy doing it all himself that nobody can take anything from. The fact you think someone saying find leadership in your overagers is funny on a junior hockey forum is funny in itself to me. You justify over paying for a 19yr old yet dismiss how an older player who comes at literally a fraction of the cost has their own agenda. Why doesnt Biggar have his own agenda next season? A GM in the league for a decade should have an idea of what available overagers bring decent leadership qualities. This is not a rookie GM with no experience...hold him accountable for having Johnson and Ivan if they bring no leadership. Both of those roles could have been better utilized if the team was that lacking in leadership that with them they still had to overpay for a player who doesnt align at all with their cycle.
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Post by Briwhel on Dec 23, 2022 11:02:31 GMT -4
Maybe leadership is like your analogy with Ivan and Johnson's game, you can just turn it on when you need it, not every young hockey player turns into a good leader. Find it in your overagers...LOL...I have said it all along, finding a good 20 who can help a rebuilding team is not easy, most of these guys have their own agenda...rather them cycle thru them...pay a bit a get it done right. I'd rather a solid 20yr old leader with less production then a guy doing it all himself that nobody can take anything from. The fact you think someone saying find leadership in your overagers is funny on a junior hockey forum is funny in itself to me. You justify over paying for a 19yr old yet dismiss how an older player who comes at literally a fraction of the cost has their own agenda. Why doesnt Biggar have his own agenda next season? A GM in the league for a decade should have an idea of what available overagers bring decent leadership qualities. This is not a rookie GM with no experience...hold him accountable for having Johnson and Ivan if they bring no leadership. Both of those roles could have been better utilized if the team was that lacking in leadership that with them they still had to overpay for a player who doesnt align at all with their cycle. You do realize that this is the same GM who placed no value on leadership in Bathurst? If a guy became one then fine, but if the team had none, they stayed that way.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 23, 2022 11:06:22 GMT -4
I'd rather a solid 20yr old leader with less production then a guy doing it all himself that nobody can take anything from. The fact you think someone saying find leadership in your overagers is funny on a junior hockey forum is funny in itself to me. You justify over paying for a 19yr old yet dismiss how an older player who comes at literally a fraction of the cost has their own agenda. Why doesnt Biggar have his own agenda next season? A GM in the league for a decade should have an idea of what available overagers bring decent leadership qualities. This is not a rookie GM with no experience...hold him accountable for having Johnson and Ivan if they bring no leadership. Both of those roles could have been better utilized if the team was that lacking in leadership that with them they still had to overpay for a player who doesnt align at all with their cycle. You do realize that this is the same GM who placed no value on leadership in Bathurst? If a guy became one then fine, but if the team had none, they stayed that way. You do realize thats part of the reason i'm against him overpaying for his former players when we're told leadership is what they bring. Buying a 19yr old, at that price, for ANY reason makes absolutely no sense to me.
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Post by Briwhel on Dec 23, 2022 11:07:50 GMT -4
You do realize that this is the same GM who placed no value on leadership in Bathurst? If a guy became one then fine, but if the team had none, they stayed that way. You do realize thats part of the reason i'm against him overpaying for his former players when we're told leadership is what they bring. Buying a 19yr old, at that price, for ANY reason makes absolutely no sense to me. Shoot, Charlie Desroches is a better leader and a better D and would have cost less. I'm starting to wonder if the "ownership made me do it" line is complete BS.
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Post by Briwhel on Dec 23, 2022 11:15:25 GMT -4
While the stated goal of making the playoffs is headscratching (for the reasons mentioned), CB was arguably the worst team in the league in the 1st half (keeping in mind that SJ had the hardest schedule in the league for the 1st half and had a full lineup for less than 10 games).
You've added a similar D to the one you lost and would still need to keep above SJ and pass someone else. Also, CB will have a tougher 2nd half schedule.
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galixon
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Post by galixon on Dec 23, 2022 11:19:57 GMT -4
You do realize thats part of the reason i'm against him overpaying for his former players when we're told leadership is what they bring. Buying a 19yr old, at that price, for ANY reason makes absolutely no sense to me. Shoot, Charlie Desroches is a better leader and a better D and would have cost less. I'm starting to wonder if the "ownership made me do it" line is complete BS. That line is complete BS lol. Everyone knows he didn’t leave Bathurst on good terms, and he’s tried to throw rocks at the organization whenever he can since then.
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