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Post by Hfx2012 on Mar 1, 2010 23:14:46 GMT -4
Do you really think they're at the end of the line with Clarke already?? It's well known he's had his troubles this year, but I'd hate like hell for them to give up on him this soon. I suppose, at the end of the day, it depends on his market value. I get the impression that while they're frustrated with him, they're willing to work with him, and Cam and Bobby are looking at the big picture, with what he can bring next year and as a 19yr old, as opposed to just looking at this season, and the negatives that occured. It depends on the market. I dont think Halifax will auction him off to the highest bidder, but id have to think they may look at swapping him for some offensive help. But there has to a fit. I think if Halifax realizes they wont get close to what they feel Clarke is worth they will probably just keep him. Bobby Smith eluded to taking 'the best player available, regardless of position and geography' and that to me pretty much means Halifax isnt going to take Burke. Because there are a couple dmen in Quebec who are better talents than Burke. If Halifax picks 1 of these 2 dmen that creates an even larger log jam on the blueline. Amyot, Abeltshauser, Gillard, Hannay, Bishop, Lewis, 16 yo dman plus Clarke...that makes 8. If it happens, it won't take place until Christmas. They'll wait and see if he gets the on ice discipline right. They're not going to take the chance going into his draft year that all of a sudden he matures and gets the discipline piece behind him. With the exception of the discipline issues, statistically he was one of the best on the blue line for the herd. If he doesn't correct it they can move him at Christmas and still get something for him. And Hannah, Bishop and Lewis are not going to do it for the herd next year if we want to get into the middle of the pack. IMO ;D
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Post by canbeer on Mar 1, 2010 23:15:43 GMT -4
Do you really think they're at the end of the line with Clarke already?? It's well known he's had his troubles this year, but I'd hate like hell for them to give up on him this soon. I suppose, at the end of the day, it depends on his market value. I get the impression that while they're frustrated with him, they're willing to work with him, and Cam and Bobby are looking at the big picture, with what he can bring next year and as a 19yr old, as opposed to just looking at this season, and the negatives that occured. It depends on the market. I dont think Halifax will auction him off to the highest bidder, but id have to think they may look at swapping him for some offensive help. But there has to a fit. I think if Halifax realizes they wont get close to what they feel Clarke is worth they will probably just keep him. Bobby Smith eluded to taking 'the best player available, regardless of position and geography' and that to me pretty much means Halifax isnt going to take Burke. Because there are a couple dmen in Quebec who are better talents than Burke. If Halifax picks 1 of these 2 dmen that creates an even larger log jam on the blueline. Amyot, Abeltshauser, Gillard, Hannay, Bishop, Lewis, 16 yo dman plus Clarke...that makes 8. But at the same time Clarke could be their top scorer on the blueline and offense from the defense could be pretty solid next year. Discipline aside, if they move their future #1-2 Dman in Clarke for a good forward then a year later they'll just be in the market for a top Dman.
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Post by Hfx2012 on Mar 1, 2010 23:27:31 GMT -4
It depends on the market. I dont think Halifax will auction him off to the highest bidder, but id have to think they may look at swapping him for some offensive help. But there has to a fit. I think if Halifax realizes they wont get close to what they feel Clarke is worth they will probably just keep him. Bobby Smith eluded to taking 'the best player available, regardless of position and geography' and that to me pretty much means Halifax isnt going to take Burke. Because there are a couple dmen in Quebec who are better talents than Burke. If Halifax picks 1 of these 2 dmen that creates an even larger log jam on the blueline. Amyot, Abeltshauser, Gillard, Hannay, Bishop, Lewis, 16 yo dman plus Clarke...that makes 8. But at the same time Clarke could be their top scorer on the blueline and offense from the defense could be pretty solid next year. Discipline aside, if they move their future #1-2 Dman in Clarke for a good forward then a year later they'll just be in the market for a top Dman. I agree. Cam is looking at him and saying "if I can get him to play like he did the last home game against Moncton" where he brings the offence, the big hits and still keep things stirred up and stays out of the box with the undisciplined crap, then I have one of the top blue-liners playng for me. I still think he'll wait and see which Clarke shows up for training camp and how he does up to Christmas.
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Post by lalalaprise on Mar 1, 2010 23:58:40 GMT -4
Thats whats frustrating about Clarke...and that's why there will always be teams lining up (so to speak) to acquire him.
Halifax knew what they were getting themselves into it, but the price wasnt high all things considered.
I think the way Halifax will handle the situation is, if a team wants to take Clarke off their hands for a good price they will take it, if not they wont give him away. It will all come down to the price another team is willing to pay.
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Post by Hfx2012 on Mar 2, 2010 1:06:32 GMT -4
Thats whats frustrating about Clarke...and that's why there will always be teams lining up (so to speak) to acquire him. Halifax knew what they were getting themselves into it, but the price wasnt high all things considered. I think the way Halifax will handle the situation is, if a team wants to take Clarke off their hands for a good price they will take it, if not they wont give him away. It will all come down to the price another team is willing to pay. Can't argue your point LaLa. I don't think it'll happen in June though. I think they'll want to play a wait and see. But, one thing is for sure, he made it very clear coming to Hfx, this is the only place he'd come. Let's face it, if he gets traded again, going into his draft year, he'd have to have a hell of a year wherever he goes in order to be drafted. And I can't see him accepting a trade to a Quebec team, unless it was a possible contender, or to a team like PEI or Bathurst with the reputations they have with players. That doesn't leave much for options. And let's face it, if they move him, in the event he has a break-out season, Cam is not going to want to play against him 8 times and listen to the fans, so somewhere in Quebec. Still don't see it.
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Post by SteveUL on Mar 2, 2010 9:33:29 GMT -4
Thats whats frustrating about Clarke...and that's why there will always be teams lining up (so to speak) to acquire him. Halifax knew what they were getting themselves into it, but the price wasnt high all things considered. I think the way Halifax will handle the situation is, if a team wants to take Clarke off their hands for a good price they will take it, if not they wont give him away. It will all come down to the price another team is willing to pay. I think maturity will temper him a little. He'll always play close to the edge ... but he'll learn where the line is that he shouldn't cross. But if he is going to be a top paring Dman for Halifax ... and I do think he has the talent ... then he will have to cut his PIMs in half, as he is no good to them in the box. At 17 he has been handed a lot more responsibility than most 17 YO Dmen get in the Q ... and I think sometimes he bites off a little more than he can chew ... trying to do too much in the role he is in. He is one of those "love to hate him" guys ... but he is solid hockey player when he keeps his head on straight.
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Post by lalalaprise on Mar 2, 2010 10:11:38 GMT -4
Thats whats frustrating about Clarke...and that's why there will always be teams lining up (so to speak) to acquire him. Halifax knew what they were getting themselves into it, but the price wasnt high all things considered. I think the way Halifax will handle the situation is, if a team wants to take Clarke off their hands for a good price they will take it, if not they wont give him away. It will all come down to the price another team is willing to pay. I think maturity will temper him a little. He'll always play close to the edge ... but he'll learn where the line is that he shouldn't cross. But if he is going to be a top paring Dman for Halifax ... and I do think he has the talent ... then he will have to cut his PIMs in half, as he is no good to them in the box. At 17 he has been handed a lot more responsibility than most 17 YO Dmen get in the Q ... and I think sometimes he bites off a little more than he can chew ... trying to do too much in the role he is in. He is one of those "love to hate him" guys ... but he is solid hockey player when he keeps his head on straight. Very true...but Clarke has been living away from home since he was 13 I believe...I dont know the kid personally but when Lewiston drafted him he already had a relationship with Ed Harding and that only lasted a season and Ed knew more than anyone what Clarke was like. Cam made a good deal in getting Clarke for Piette and a 7th, it didnt have much risk but a HUGE reward. The issue is, how long can Halifax wait for him to mature? Kevin Marshall had these same issues when he was 15, he was thought of as a guy who could divide a dressing room, yet he matured quickly at 16. Frederick Cabana was actually though of as a malcontent when he was in Midget and had some character issues, yet the moment he arrived in Halifax he was a heart soul type. I dont think Clarke realizes how good he could be but Im starting to lose hope that he will somehow come to his senses and realize his potential.
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Post by canbeer on Mar 2, 2010 10:16:49 GMT -4
Sooo should we keep the last place team in the League, add a First overall Midget pick, and a 3rd overall Euro who on paper is just a replacement for Knotek. Now I now that the 3rd Overall will probably work out to be a star(but now all he is...a draft hopefull. Like it or not a team can not be built by drafting alone not in 2 years. That is why trades will be made once Management feels the team is 'close' Gelinas, Desjardins, Lemieux, Andrews, Hannay, Gillard, Bishop have all shown improvement since October...if those kids take another step forward (which im guessing most will considering their age) than Halifax should be much improved without really adding anything via trade. You couple that with Amyot's progress over the last 2 months, the 27 minute a night games Abeltshauser has been logging, the 1st/2nd overall Midget pick, the 3rd overall euro pick, the 4 other picks in the top 37, im guessing 1 of those 4 picks steps in and makes an impact right away. If Clarke is traded, expect an offensive player in return. I dont think Halifax will be a top 8 team next year but they should be in the 10-13 range depending on who they get for Clarke (if he is traded), who they add as their euro (17 year old vs a more polished 18/19 year old) and how the 16 and 17 year olds kid progress over summer. Yeah I think 10-13 range sounds about right. They could really progress on the backend and scoring should be by committee. I think two of the biggest reasons Halifax should be better next year is that the young players were well served playing in a tough division this year, learning to work hard and seeing so much of the leagues top teams (4 of the top 8 teams are in the Atlantic division). And two, the Atlantic division next year shouldn't be half as tough as it was this year. Three teams will be taking big steps down, I'm not sure yet that Bat will be much improved and PEI is looking like they could be solid.
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Post by melly on Mar 2, 2010 10:20:19 GMT -4
Geez Louise! Why are we panicking? We`can assume that the development will continue for the likes of Andrews, Gelinas, Lemieux, Desjardins. Randell will contribute, Grant will definitely put up bigger numbers. Boudreau is likely to contribute some. Add a pick or two, and maybe a surprise invite, and I think we will provide more offense. I think the blueline will be decent, and Clarke and Gillard could provide some offense there as well. We might want to bring in 1 offensive forward, hopefully at not too high a price, and that should be it. We the picks and general overall increase in teh development of this team, I say we are in the middle of the pack. Which is right where we should be in preparation for 2011-2012.
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Post by mikeb on Mar 3, 2010 8:27:53 GMT -4
That is why trades will be made once Management feels the team is 'close' Gelinas, Desjardins, Lemieux, Andrews, Hannay, Gillard, Bishop have all shown improvement since October...if those kids take another step forward (which im guessing most will considering their age) than Halifax should be much improved without really adding anything via trade. You couple that with Amyot's progress over the last 2 months, the 27 minute a night games Abeltshauser has been logging, the 1st/2nd overall Midget pick, the 3rd overall euro pick, the 4 other picks in the top 37, im guessing 1 of those 4 picks steps in and makes an impact right away. If Clarke is traded, expect an offensive player in return. I dont think Halifax will be a top 8 team next year but they should be in the 10-13 range depending on who they get for Clarke (if he is traded), who they add as their euro (17 year old vs a more polished 18/19 year old) and how the 16 and 17 year olds kid progress over summer. Yeah I think 10-13 range sounds about right. They could really progress on the backend and scoring should be by committee. I think two of the biggest reasons Halifax should be better next year is that the young players were well served playing in a tough division this year, learning to work hard and seeing so much of the leagues top teams (4 of the top 8 teams are in the Atlantic division). And two, the Atlantic division next year shouldn't be half as tough as it was this year. Three teams will be taking big steps down, I'm not sure yet that Bat will be much improved and PEI is looking like they could be solid. Bathurst won't improve much?? Why would Hfx improve but not Bathurst? Plus Bathurst is getting Levesque (personally I think he will add a "Faille like presence", not superstar presence but one that is pretty good) and at least 2 other players with Q league experience. One player will be 2nd line material and the other a strong 3rd liner. Plus maybe another player. The Titan will have to trade a few players from their current roster to make room for them. Plus they have Steeves coming up in net and Houle from MAAA. Plus they have lots of picks with the possibility of more from trading a few 20YO (nearly all of whom are better than the 20YO Hfx will be trading) and some 19YO. Which 4 forwards will Hfx have with the skills of Lessard, Lambke, Levesque and Gilbert? The defense will not be great but it is experienced (obviously some more so than others). Between Lacerte, Nadeau and Steeves, they should have a decent enough back end. Not great but will get the job done on most nights. And the Titan will be drafting 2 Euros...... okay I'll leave that out. Bathurst will develop just like Hfx will and it will be getting futures back from Drum. and RN which Hfx won't. I see no reason why Bathurst won't still be better than Hfx, all things considered.
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Post by SteveUL on Mar 3, 2010 10:14:26 GMT -4
And the Titan will be drafting 2 Euros...... okay I'll leave that out. Bathurst will develop just like Hfx will and it will be getting futures back from Drum. and RN which Hfx won't. I see no reason why Bathurst won't still be better than Hfx, all things considered. I'll bet they waste another year on Pulis ... and they'll probably trade their higher Euro pick for a 20 YO Euro. You see no reason ? What about Couturier trading away half the guys that you listed ? What about the Coach that the majority of your fans want fired ? What about the next batch of players that will ask to be traded ? Your own words suggest you lack on D and it looks like you are sporting 3 backup goaltenders ... and one of them may step up to get the job done ... but lacking on D and in goal is not a good recipe to improve on the year. Did you really mention Lambke as a key returning player ? I think you might see a pretty big jump from Halifax ... the work ethic is superior to the Titan ... and if the young talent catches up I wouldn't be surprised to see them at mid-pack or slightly better. IMO Halifax is a better team now than Bathurst is ... Bathurst has more offensive skill ... but the Moose have improved greatly over the year and are much better than the team they started the year with .. while the Titan have stepped back a bit due to trades for the future. If the Moose and Titan played a 7 game series now ... I'd bet on the Moose in 7 games.
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Post by sharrow on Mar 3, 2010 10:14:40 GMT -4
I would think that Bathurst should be better than Halifax given that their rebuilding was a year ahead of us and in reality given our non year of nothing (08/09) you actually had a 2 year advantage over our rebuilding program. I would look for Bathurst to be in the upper class of the Division while the Moose hopefully would be mid class for the reasons stated.
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Post by canbeer on Mar 3, 2010 13:25:23 GMT -4
Yeah I think 10-13 range sounds about right. They could really progress on the backend and scoring should be by committee. I think two of the biggest reasons Halifax should be better next year is that the young players were well served playing in a tough division this year, learning to work hard and seeing so much of the leagues top teams (4 of the top 8 teams are in the Atlantic division). And two, the Atlantic division next year shouldn't be half as tough as it was this year. Three teams will be taking big steps down, I'm not sure yet that Bat will be much improved and PEI is looking like they could be solid. Bathurst won't improve much?? Why would Hfx improve but not Bathurst? Plus Bathurst is getting Levesque (personally I think he will add a "Faille like presence", not superstar presence but one that is pretty good) and at least 2 other players with Q league experience. One player will be 2nd line material and the other a strong 3rd liner. Plus maybe another player. The Titan will have to trade a few players from their current roster to make room for them. Plus they have Steeves coming up in net and Houle from MAAA. Plus they have lots of picks with the possibility of more from trading a few 20YO (nearly all of whom are better than the 20YO Hfx will be trading) and some 19YO. Which 4 forwards will Hfx have with the skills of Lessard, Lambke, Levesque and Gilbert? The defense will not be great but it is experienced (obviously some more so than others). Between Lacerte, Nadeau and Steeves, they should have a decent enough back end. Not great but will get the job done on most nights. And the Titan will be drafting 2 Euros...... okay I'll leave that out. Bathurst will develop just like Hfx will and it will be getting futures back from Drum. and RN which Hfx won't. I see no reason why Bathurst won't still be better than Hfx, all things considered. I'm not quite sure where I said Halifax will be better then Bathurst... maybe you can point it out to me. I think it will be closer then it was this year (which would essentially mean Halifax improves more than Bathurst) and I can see Bathurst having some issues. Halifax could be better not sure yet if they will. Part of what we have to see is who Bathurst does in fact get to complete the deals they made. Levesque should be good for them... even if his production has gone from league leader to 4 goals in his last 20some games. Faille basically lives on the ice so he'll be a big loss... he almost taken as many faceoffs as your 2,3 and 4 faceoff guys. Bathurst as much as any team always seems to miss the vets that they lose because of how much they overplay them and how little much of the youth plays. McKiernan has also been very solid for you so I'm sure his loss will be felt as well. On D who will be you 20 year old? Malka? Malka and Blain then down to Moore and Bernier... yeah I would say your D could have some issues. You see "NO reason" why Bathurst won't be better then Hali... Defense and goaltending is not a reason? You guys had something like 17 points this year before Halifax had their 2nd win... pretty crazy eh? A lot of those early wins and your first half success came from Champion. You had a top goalie in Champion who played about half of your year and played well and you now have one 20 year old and three 19 year old D... and even with that you're 2nd worst in goals against. There could be a big issue for Bathurst next year in trying to keep the puck out of the net.
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Post by mikeb on Mar 3, 2010 17:42:24 GMT -4
Bathurst won't improve much?? Why would Hfx improve but not Bathurst? Plus Bathurst is getting Levesque (personally I think he will add a "Faille like presence", not superstar presence but one that is pretty good) and at least 2 other players with Q league experience. One player will be 2nd line material and the other a strong 3rd liner. Plus maybe another player. The Titan will have to trade a few players from their current roster to make room for them. Plus they have Steeves coming up in net and Houle from MAAA. Plus they have lots of picks with the possibility of more from trading a few 20YO (nearly all of whom are better than the 20YO Hfx will be trading) and some 19YO. Which 4 forwards will Hfx have with the skills of Lessard, Lambke, Levesque and Gilbert? The defense will not be great but it is experienced (obviously some more so than others). Between Lacerte, Nadeau and Steeves, they should have a decent enough back end. Not great but will get the job done on most nights. And the Titan will be drafting 2 Euros...... okay I'll leave that out. Bathurst will develop just like Hfx will and it will be getting futures back from Drum. and RN which Hfx won't. I see no reason why Bathurst won't still be better than Hfx, all things considered. I'm not quite sure where I said Halifax will be better then Bathurst... maybe you can point it out to me. I think it will be closer then it was this year (which would essentially mean Halifax improves more than Bathurst) and I can see Bathurst having some issues. Halifax could be better not sure yet if they will. Part of what we have to see is who Bathurst does in fact get to complete the deals they made. Levesque should be good for them... even if his production has gone from league leader to 4 goals in his last 20some games. Faille basically lives on the ice so he'll be a big loss... he almost taken as many faceoffs as your 2,3 and 4 faceoff guys. Bathurst as much as any team always seems to miss the vets that they lose because of how much they overplay them and how little much of the youth plays. McKiernan has also been very solid for you so I'm sure his loss will be felt as well. On D who will be you 20 year old? Malka? Malka and Blain then down to Moore and Bernier... yeah I would say your D could have some issues. You see "NO reason" why Bathurst won't be better then Hali... Defense and goaltending is not a reason? You guys had something like 17 points this year before Halifax had their 2nd win... pretty crazy eh? A lot of those early wins and your first half success came from Champion. You had a top goalie in Champion who played about half of your year and played well and you now have one 20 year old and three 19 year old D... and even with that you're 2nd worst in goals against. There could be a big issue for Bathurst next year in trying to keep the puck out of the net. And you guys will probably struggle with scoring. Same as this year for both teams. But we will be getting veterans as futures. I guess we'll see come next Christmas.
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