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Post by Captain Obvious on May 14, 2010 20:07:50 GMT -4
As an example, the Titan traded Blanchard,Renaud and Champion last season and got in return: Gilbert Levesque Losier O'Brien a 2nd round pick 2010 and a 1st round pick 2011 and spent a 3rd round pick to Quebec....that is pretty good and should allow the Titan to position itself pretty well for this season. Bathurst made some decent rebuilding trades, it's the crappy drafting for most of the last 4-5 years that's making it a long road to contention...especially 1st rounders Critchlow Fournier Arseneau plus having no 1st in 2009. If you can't get big time Euros(Knotek Galiev Jurco Kabanov etc) you HAVE to draft well in round 1 and get high end players.
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Post by lalalaprise on May 14, 2010 20:08:40 GMT -4
The moral of the story is...there isnt a right way to build a championship team. You have to make adjustments on the fly. Do you think heading into this season Moncton figured theyd trade for Bourque, Deschamps, Tessier, Wall ?? Im pretty sure most of their fans wouldnt have imagined that.
When Riopel came back Flynn was essentially givin a window of opportunity to win and he did. I dont think they cared at cycles or looked to see which 'year in the cycle' they were in.
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Post by Captain Obvious on May 14, 2010 20:10:17 GMT -4
As an example, the Titan traded Blanchard,Renaud and Champion last season and got in return: Gilbert Levesque Losier O'Brien a 2nd round pick 2010 and a 1st round pick 2011 and spent a 3rd round pick to Quebec....that is pretty good and should allow the Titan to position itself pretty well for this season. You keep counting the picks AND the players...you cant have your cake and eating it too....sheesh. Youve been told like 80 times. What's the point of having cake if you can't eat it?
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Post by Dalkiel on May 14, 2010 20:12:07 GMT -4
The moral of the story is...there isnt a right way to build a championship team. You have to make adjustments on the fly. Do you think heading into this season Moncton figured theyd trade for Bourque, Deschamps, Tessier, Wall ?? Im pretty sure most of their fans wouldnt have imagined that. When Riopel came back Flynn was essentially givin a window of opportunity to win and he did. I dont think they cared at cycles or looked to see which 'year in the cycle' they were in. And I agree with you but when you have the opportunity (this case its Rio) then you have to pull the trigger, my point is that you can't half ass it. A lot of people initially thought Tess was overkill..... hind sight being what it is, obviously those were very very wrong.
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Post by stratford on May 14, 2010 20:49:46 GMT -4
Be like the Rocket and don't ever have a cycle
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Post by MikeC on May 14, 2010 22:05:55 GMT -4
What I think has happened is Halifax has finally played the other side of the buy/sell game. They've always bought when they were going for it, but outside of the boomerang trade, they've never sold during the down years. In the down years, they'd hold on to assets that could help speed up the recovery, and even trade away a decent pick for a band aid solution.
That finally caught up to them, and over the last 2 years they've played the game the way they needed to.
Missing the playoffs 2 years in a row in junior is a sign that you've probably effed things up in the past.
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Post by wingman on May 14, 2010 22:20:10 GMT -4
The moral of the story is...there isnt a right way to build a championship team. You have to make adjustments on the fly. Do you think heading into this season Moncton figured theyd trade for Bourque, Deschamps, Tessier, Wall ?? Im pretty sure most of their fans wouldnt have imagined that. When Riopel came back Flynn was essentially givin a window of opportunity to win and he did. I dont think they cared at cycles or looked to see which 'year in the cycle' they were in. Getting Riopel back was definitely a window of opportunity but I am wondering if the Wildcats were thinking of going for it before he came back. This would have been the last year of them having Gormley-Barberio-Savard on the blue line together with both Savard and Barberio being 20's next season where chances are Savard will turn pro. Did getting Riopel back fall in their lap, so to speak, or did they go out and pursue him kind of thing. I wouldn't be surprised if Moncton had a plan or at least were thinking of going for it before Riopel came back.
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Post by canbeer on May 14, 2010 22:47:59 GMT -4
My point wasnt to rag on Moncton...I made an error and thought Moncton missed 2 years in a row for some reason. That being said, the key to Moncton's success of late is making trades at the right time. Halifax missed the boat by not trading Brine and Carnegie...where as Moncton got good return for guys like Marquardt and Mangan, etc. CHI f'ed themselves over by not trading Desharnais, BaC screwed themselves by not trading Petit...it isnt rocket science...the reason Halifax is in this situation is more to do with their reluctance to trade vets in the past which forced them to overpay 3 years ago. It's interesting how a move or two an organization makes, or in some cases doesn't make, has a ripple effect on that organization, and how the team can feel the effects for years after the fact. Keeping Brine and Carnagie and even MacDonald that year set this team back a ton looking back. So much could have been avoided. I know each of the 3 had different situations and circumstances that played a role in Marcel keeping them. But in hindsight, wow, we paid big time for sitting on our hands that year. Imagine how different the last several years would have looked if the made one move that year and traded Brine to Moncton for Marchand.
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Post by lalalaprise on May 14, 2010 23:00:59 GMT -4
It's interesting how a move or two an organization makes, or in some cases doesn't make, has a ripple effect on that organization, and how the team can feel the effects for years after the fact. Keeping Brine and Carnagie and even MacDonald that year set this team back a ton looking back. So much could have been avoided. I know each of the 3 had different situations and circumstances that played a role in Marcel keeping them. But in hindsight, wow, we paid big time for sitting on our hands that year. Imagine how different the last several years would have looked if the made one move that year and traded Brine to Moncton for Marchand. The rumour at the time was Cabana to Moncton for Marchand (there was other assets involved as well)...but obviously when VDO made Bourdon available that changed things...
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Post by oilers4ever on May 14, 2010 23:02:34 GMT -4
The moral of the story is...there isnt a right way to build a championship team. You have to make adjustments on the fly. Do you think heading into this season Moncton figured theyd trade for Bourque, Deschamps, Tessier, Wall ?? Im pretty sure most of their fans wouldnt have imagined that. When Riopel came back Flynn was essentially givin a window of opportunity to win and he did. I dont think they cared at cycles or looked to see which 'year in the cycle' they were in. Getting Riopel back was definitely a window of opportunity but I am wondering if the Wildcats were thinking of going for it before he came back. This would have been the last year of them having Gormley-Barberio-Savard on the blue line together with both Savard and Barberio being 20's next season where chances are Savard will turn pro. Did getting Riopel back fall in their lap, so to speak, or did they go out and pursue him kind of thing. I wouldn't be surprised if Moncton had a plan or at least were thinking of going for it before Riopel came back. Maybe, but the decision certainly became easier when Riopel failed to take that next step to Minor Pro and decided to return to Junior
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Post by fireball on May 15, 2010 11:30:06 GMT -4
Halifax will be back in contention soon with their draft picks this year and a few trades made at the proper time, no problem ! It's not rocket science! LOL
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Post by moosefan25 on May 15, 2010 11:37:37 GMT -4
What I think has happened is Halifax has finally played the other side of the buy/sell game. They've always bought when they were going for it, but outside of the boomerang trade, they've never sold during the down years. In the down years, they'd hold on to assets that could help speed up the recovery, and even trade away a decent pick for a band aid solution. That finally caught up to them, and over the last 2 years they've played the game the way they needed to. Missing the playoffs 2 years in a row in junior is a sign that you've probably effed things up in the past. Totally agree with everything you wrote. Although the Mooseheads have missed the playoffs the past two years, and it was hard to watch at times, I still had / have a sense that things are going in the right direction. Hind sight is 20/20 as they say, and the Marchand trade looks horrible and set them back, but as long as the Mooseheads have learned the lessons from that season, and don't repeat the same mistakes, (like the 2004 Screaming Eagles). Then hopefully they can ice competitive teams year in and year out.
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Post by Steve on May 15, 2010 11:58:31 GMT -4
It's interesting how a move or two an organization makes, or in some cases doesn't make, has a ripple effect on that organization, and how the team can feel the effects for years after the fact. Keeping Brine and Carnagie and even MacDonald that year set this team back a ton looking back. So much could have been avoided. I know each of the 3 had different situations and circumstances that played a role in Marcel keeping them. But in hindsight, wow, we paid big time for sitting on our hands that year. Imagine how different the last several years would have looked if the made one move that year and traded Brine to Moncton for Marchand. I still believe the reason Marcel didn't trade either David or Rane was that they told him they didn't want to leave, in his blind loyality he kept them and the rebuild suffered for it. As for Marchand, it was simply the wrong trade, we didn't need scoring, we needed a shut down D-man, we needed Kevin Marshall from Lewi, his mean streak and defense ability would have made a difference. Going back to Brad's history, his big goals in important games, he could have become a legend in his home town, unfortunately it didnt work out. I like what Cam is doing, he understands what needs to be done, this club may still hit some bumps and disappointments but that's the game.
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Post by Fred The Moose on May 15, 2010 15:12:36 GMT -4
Every Hockey ownership and General Manager,coach want to put their names on their teams and that is what really is happening here in Halifax...No More Moosehead Breweries,and Marcel Patteneau,Even my buddy Shawn Mac Kenzie who by the way would be great with Cam as General Manager and Shawn as head coach this young group would be fantastic to watch develop and win too...
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Post by Gman on May 16, 2010 16:30:59 GMT -4
No offense, but have you completely missed the point of what Russell and Smith are trying to do? They are trying to mold the franchise a bit more like Gatineau, but they will build through strong drafts, hold on to high picks, make timely trades, and tinker with the lineup (not make blockbuster deals) a bit at the trade periods. Right now Halifax is trying to build a foundation so that they never have to suffer 2 years like they just have. It's not about a contending year- its about contending every year to at least make a splash in the playoffs, and every 2-3 years make a decent run at the championship. It's really not rocket science, but you need a GM and owner who are on board, and won't abandon the plan when the going gets tough. I think the Moose brass proved they are in it for the long haul by not panicing and trying to acquire veteran players this year. Now if Cam the coach (IMO, this should be his chance to prove himself- no more excuses) turns out to be as effective as Cam the GM, there could be some very exciting seasons for Moose fans. A lot has to go right for Halifax to take the next step. - they need a strong draft next month. They have the picks to do it, so as long as Russell and the scouting staff have done their homework, the draft should be a success. - take advantage of having the 3rd overall Euro pick, either by getting a nice return for it from a team like Gatineau, Quebec, etc. Or pick a player who will be a better than average Q player. Again, with 3rd pick this shouldn't be a huge challenge. - tap the Free Agent market. You know Moncton, SJ, Cape Breton, and Gatineau will. It's time Halifax started putting some resources into this, as it's obviously yielded huge success for teams that already do. if the Moose are going to go with that strategy and have a mid-good team year in and year out with a "decent" cup run then I speak for the rest of the Q and say, that's fine for the rest of us. As seen in many years past with the very few exceptions, it takes a strong vetern team with depth to win the league, a "decent" run just won't do it. If you're fine with the Moose not winning championships, then so am I, the rest of the league will just use you guys as a middle step on the ladder year in and year out. I'm not saying take the Rimouski approach where they tank 2-3 years and go for it but in order to make a serious run these days, you really need to go for it. Some teams have a cup hangover the following year, some shit the bed for 2 years in a row and in very very few cases, some teams can actually reload.... its just too difficult to do IMO. A team that drafts well, actively pursues the FA market, and has success with Euros should not have to make more than 1 big deadline deal, plus maybe a tinker or 2. What Moncton did this year was only necessary because of how stacked SJ was. Normally what they had would have been a great start, and adding a guy like Bourque should have put them in contending status. I'm not sure they really had to trade for Tessier and Deschamps too, but I didn't really follow the cats too well. Don't get me wrong, if a couple of final pieces to the puzzle are needed to have a legitimate contending team, those moves have to be made, but my point was they will never have to suffer so many last place finishes again. The cupboards will be stocked with assets they can use to deal for these players, where up until 18 months ago, draft picks were the only assets being used to acquire assets, leading to weak drafts, leading to a hard landing after the 2007-2008 disaster.
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