Retiring Numbers

[IslandersHKY]

This debate started in the Fog Devils Game Threat but I agree it should be separate.


My opening post was I still firmly believe that some Rocket players numbers should be retired.

IMO the Rocket should retire Bureau's, Laliberte's and Lapierre's. All three were career Rocket players, played a huge role with this organization and were both captains.

And I don't like the idea of retiring their numbers long after they leave, like with David Ling. IMO if you are going to retire the number you should do it a year or two after when it still really means something. What I would have done was retire Bureau and Lapierre's numbers last season and Laliberte's this season. I know it sounds like a lot but after those 3 I don't know if I would have anyone else in mind as even a candidate.

[IslandersHKY]

krang7 said:

You can't retire numbers for a franchise that's only 8 or 9 years old. It just doesn't make sense.

If you retire numbers that early in a franchise, you set a precedent for what constitutes getting your number retired. You mentioned 3 players in the short history of the Rocket. 3 players in 9 years means that you're looking at one for every three years. You'll have no numbers left to pick from at that rate.

To me a player should have an excellent junior career, playing with one team for at least 2 full seasons, and then have a good solid pro career before deserving the honor. None of these guys fit the bill yet.

[IslandersHKY]

wingman said:

krang7 said:

It'd be nice if the Rocket would do that for some of our former players/leaders/captains at times (Lali, Bureau, etc.)

I know and I don't know why they don't do it. I know when you walk into the KC Irving Center in Bathurst and the first thing you see when you walk into the arena part is the banners of Lemieux, Bossy, etc and that has impressed me everytime I walked into the place. I know that LGM takes alot of heat for some of the things he has done, but he does that part right by honoring former players for their past contributions to the team. I also like the Wildcat's Wall Of Fame as it still honors players even without retiring their numbers.

The Rocket have a bit of a display upstairs outside the Rocket office but not many people go up that way. They should have it in a place where it is noticeable to people, but once again that is our PR department not knowing what people want to see.

[IslandersHKY]

In response to Krang's thread I don't understand what age of the franchise has anything to do with retiring a player's number. And you build history by recognizing these types of things.


Now I agree with you I don't want the Rocket to just start retiring everybody's Number but I think the three that I suggested are pretty special players and just because you retire these three doesn't mean you would even have another one for a long time.

Just look at their credentials.

Bureau
2 seasons as Captain (really 3)
Played 5 seasons with the Rocket
346 career gms with the Rocket (Q record)
346 gms / 87 goals / 239 pts


Laliberte
2 yrs as captain
Played 5 seasons with the Rocket
Record for goals in a season with 50
279 gms / 121 goals / 239 pts
Does he have the Record for career goals or points? (If he hadn't been injured he would have)


Lapierre
Captain for 1 year
Played his entire career with the Rocket
217 gms / 74 goals / 158
Also NHL career plays a factor in having his number retired.


And the one thing that these three have in common is that it wasn't just stats but the contribution that they made to the Rocket while they were here. All three were much more than impact players, IMO all 3 really were the heart of the team while they were here. And IMO all 3 deserve to be recognized for that.

There are 99 numbers to choose from (actually 98 since no one would wear Gretzky's). Retiring 3 isn't a big deal and over the next 10 years you may only add 1 or 2 more to that list.

[bois]

No if Laliberte hadn't been injured he wouldn't likely have more records.. if he hadn't been injured he would never have been here last year.

I think you could make a case for Bureau.... but I disagree all 3 should be retired.. to me a retired jersey should be held for someone who plays at a high level, showss leadership, a pillar in the community during and after their playing days, and leads the franchise to new levels.. since this franchise has never gone past round two of the playoffs I can't in good conscience support retiring these jerseys.. except maybe Bureau's

[wingman]

The one I was thinking of was Laliberte's and part of the reason was his coming back from the injuries like he did, but I still wouldn't do it for at least a couple of years. I find it is better to gauge these things after a couple of years to see if their contributions would still seem significant after more players have put on a Rocket jersey. But either way, no reason why the Rocket can't honor them all with a Rocket Hall of Fame or something of that nature. Put the yearly team pictures up in a place that is easily visible for everyone. Put up the yearly team leaders for stats with the pictures, hang pictures up of the team captains and assistants. Put up team records for goals, assists, points, games played etc.

[Wince]

Here are my thoughts on retiring numbers, in particular the number 12 (Scott Brophy, 1st ever Captain), that I posted over in our forum:

wince said:

I can't resist commenting. Tried too. Can't do it.

This is the way I look at it... and really, you do have to look at it long term. I'm not talking 5 years, 10 years, maybe not even 15 years down the road, but if you want to really ensure long term viability for the St. John's Fog Devils, how do you do it?

Well for one thing you create an identity... give the fans something to identify with and care about. Brands and logos are one way to do this and we have those... but no question, those will also change over time.

But another way to create identity is to manufacture history and it's offshoot, tradition.

Some day it could very well be that you will go to Mile One Center and your son/daughter (or even grandkids) might ask "Poppy, what's that #12 for?", and you'll recall the first season and the first Captain and you'll tell them how he was St. John's greatest Fog Devil Captain and how he helped the team over achieve that year, and how he set the bar for all other Captain's to follow (let's face it, he did).

By creating/manufacturing history you create tradition and give fans something to identify with and care about. Thus you ensure long term viability no matter who may own the club in the future. In fact, Brad could be creating a situation where the Fog Devils will be more attractive to a potential owner because of the legacy they put in place.

The NFL does this with great success... profit sharing aside, one of real reasons Green Bay survives is because of it's history. The Ice Bowl, Bart Starr, Ray Nitschke, etc.

Let's face it, naming Scott as the first Captain was no small decision and that he's from St. John's, bonus! If the current players have an unwritten rule about not wearing #12, then you don't think that that unwritten rule isn't going to be passed from year to year and team to team? Of course it will... hockey is all about the unwritten rule. If this is the case, then why not retire now and start creating your legacy.

It is only 1 number out of 99.

For the people who truly care about this team, they will know who Scott Brophy is. They are the people Brad is after. For the casual fan, this is a chance to educate them.

Scott is one of our own.

Anyways, I'm rambling but if I were to guess what Brad and the marketing team are after, this is where I'd put my money.

Weather they retire or simply honour the number is still up in the air but I don't think it's stupid.

Nicely done hockeyfan99 making this discussion it's own thread. Obviously you put in some effort by adding the relevant quotes from other members.

[Krang7]

hockeyfan99 said:

In response to Krang's thread I don't understand what age of the franchise has anything to do with retiring a player's number. And you build history by recognizing these types of things.

I don't think the history of the franchise is the number one important thing to consider.

I just think it's a little loopy to consider retiring numbers for the Fog Devils, who are a little over 2 years old and beyond making the playoffs in their expansion year have really never accomplished anything.

And it could be argued that that isn't even really a big accomplishment, considering all they had to do was finish ahead of one other team in the division, which includes another expansion team. (Yes, I know, they finished ahead of the Rocket that season, and higher then most people gave them credit for.)

I just really believe that retiring a number is the highest honor that a player could receive for their junior career, and perhaps even for their pro career. To me it feels a little more cheap if you don't do it for an extremely special player, as in a franchise making type of player.

Given our franchise's lack of success, and given the Fog Devils franchise's lack of success, it makes no sense to me for their to be numbers retired.

It'd be interesting to see a list of all of the retired numbers for all of the teams in the Q... anyone know where to find one?

[Krang7]

wingman said:

The one I was thinking of was Laliberte's and part of the reason was his coming back from the injuries like he did, but I still wouldn't do it for at least a couple of years. I find it is better to gauge these things after a couple of years to see if their contributions would still seem significant after more players have put on a Rocket jersey. But either way, no reason why the Rocket can't honor them all with a Rocket Hall of Fame or something of that nature. Put the yearly team pictures up in a place that is easily visible for everyone. Put up the yearly team leaders for stats with the pictures, hang pictures up of the team captains and assistants. Put up team records for goals, assists, points, games played etc.

I agree with this idea. I'd love to see something of a wall of fame for our former players.

Big posters like what Moncton has at the Coliseum. It doesn't necessarily have to be NHL players like their's are, but just players that meant a lot to this team.

Bureau, Lappy, Lambert, Jon Boutin, Bonneau, Lali, Grags, Slava I think would all be great.

[brec7]

I like what we'd done in Cape Breton with the wall of captains that was put up last year. I'm also a big fan of the huge portraits of alumni in the NHL that you see in Moncton.

As for retiring numbers, I think it's LUDICROUS to suggest that PEI would have three numbers retired. To me in order to have a number retired you should have to spend a decent amount of time with a team (which would rule out Brophy in St. John's) and be a bonafide SUPERSTAR in the league. In CB the only player that I'd retire would be Fleury's, and I wouldn't even be offended if that never happens.

[markofthebeast]

brec7 said:

I like what we'd done in Cape Breton with the wall of captains that was put up last year. I'm also a big fan of the huge portraits of alumni in the NHL that you see in Moncton.

As for retiring numbers, I think it's LUDICROUS to suggest that PEI would have three numbers retired. To me in order to have a number retired you should have to spend a decent amount of time with a team (which would rule out Brophy in St. John's) and be a bonafide SUPERSTAR in the league. In CB the only player that I'd retire would be Fleury's, and I wouldn't even be offended if that never happens.

It's not exactly Brophys fault he was 20 when the Fog Devils came into the league. It should have to do with the impact the player has had on a franchise not measured in time served or points produce. With the relatively short time your with your in Jr. time should matter even less I would agree with you in the NHL time should matter, but in the future should the Hab’s or the Ave’s retire Roy’s Jersey? He spent almost Equal time in both city’s.

[bjindaho]

You don;t retire the number, but maybe you honor it. Like the Leafs do to allow others to still wear it.

[thedrover]

bjindaho said:

You don;t retire the number, but maybe you honor it. Like the Leafs do to allow others to still wear it.

My point exactly on this thread on the Fog Devils board. Give the impact players on your team a chance to be "honored".

[brec7]

markofthebeast said:

It's not exactly Brophys fault he was 20 when the Fog Devils came into the league. It should have to do with the impact the player has had on a franchise not measured in time served or points produce. With the relatively short time your with your in Jr. time should matter even less I would agree with you in the NHL time should matter, but in the future should the Hab’s or the Ave’s retire Roy’s Jersey? He spent almost Equal time in both city’s.

There's no rule saying you can't have your jersey retired with more than one team, NHL or junior. Roy's is a no brainer to be retired in both Montreal & Colorado.

Even if Brophy's years in Gatineau had been spent in St. John's it wouldn't be worthy of having his number retired.

[rocketfan44]

It's probably a bit late now to retire #25 for the Rocket considering a player is wearing it now, doesn't make sense does it? I don't believe 22 has been worn since Bureau left this team. Bureau was honored by the Rocket at the end of his career, he's the only player I remember having the spotlight put on him like that, and it was well deserved!!

It's an interesting thread and I'm sure it will have much debate. I don't believe there have been enough "stars" from the Rocket that deserve to have their numbers retired. Bois had a good point about Lali, had he not been injured he more then likely wouldn't have been here last season, but he was and now holds a record for this team. As of now, I think the only number the team should retire if it was going to would be #22.