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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 30, 2014 12:00:52 GMT -4
The most alarming thing we should all consider here is that history "seems" to be repeating itself with Dumont . We were told what unfolded in Val Dor and a lot of people either ignored it or figured he learned from it and would be all the better for it ..........he just does not seem to be able to get it done......simple as that .....well not just that simple but it looks like he may be going down a road he has travelled already . History repeated itself with Darcy as well but nobody seems to care about that part of this story (see Northeastern) Care to elaborate with facts? Kids leaving for better opportunities does not always mean the kid has ego issues. Especially when adding in the school component of playing NCAA. He proved last year that there was no issues stemming from that so how did anything repeat other then the coaches attitude which this situation proves is costing us elite level talent 6 months before we could have 4 1st rounders?
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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 30, 2014 12:01:59 GMT -4
Not to defend Darcy in anyway because he did come back here with a chip on his shoulder, but some of the blame has to go to Dumont.Since when do you take your top pointgetter as a 20 year old and put him on the 4th line with a 17 year old rookie ad a 16 year old rookie defenceman filling a hole at forward? Poor coaching in my opinion no wonder it ended in disaster.I can see that happening for a game to send a message, but not 4 or 5 games. Just my humble opinion. I agree. Dumont midhandled it all the entire way.
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Post by bois on Dec 30, 2014 14:26:20 GMT -4
Did Dumont not coach Darcy last year?
Kid is showing his true colors.... if everything is rosy he plays great.... little adversity he quits on his team
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Post by gocapebreton on Dec 30, 2014 15:21:17 GMT -4
Did Dumont not coach Darcy last year? Kid is showing his true colors.... if everything is rosy he plays great.... little adversity he quits on his team
Yes, and he was a major contributor to what I believe was Mr. Dumont's only winning percentage season, as a coach, in the Q. He is not the first player to go through a slump. Again, many players that go through slumps lose confidence and show frustration. It is a major part of a coach's job, particularly at this age, to help direct them out. It may possibly have been that Mr. Dumont compounded the problem with the way he handled the situation. Most likely none of us spend time with the team, so I think it"s unfair to say he quit on his team. I am a believer that statistics don't lie. He was getting the same shots per game. His assists per game were on par. He hit numerous posts, but he was becoming way too frustrated and wasn't scoring. End result, he needed a change and he got it. It's working out so far for him and I wish him the best, as I do for every kid in this league.
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Post by jamesnorris on Dec 30, 2014 15:43:00 GMT -4
Yes, and he was a major contributor to what I believe was Mr. Dumont's only winning percentage season, as a coach, in the Q. He is not the first player to go through a slump. Again, many players that go through slumps lose confidence and show frustration. It is a major part of a coach's job, particularly at this age, to help direct them out. It may possibly have been that Mr. Dumont compounded the problem with the way he handled the situation. Most likely none of us spend time with the team, so I think it"s unfair to say he quit on his team. I am a believer that statistics don't lie. He was getting the same shots per game. His assists per game were on par. He hit numerous posts, but he was becoming way too frustrated and wasn't scoring. End result, he needed a change and he got it. It's working out so far for him and I wish him the best, as I do for every kid in this league.
By that logic it's unfair for you to say anything negative about Dumont in this situation.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 30, 2014 16:24:22 GMT -4
Did Dumont not coach Darcy last year? Kid is showing his true colors.... if everything is rosy he plays great.... little adversity he quits on his team when did he quit on the team? If anything the team(Dumont) quit on him.
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Post by gocapebreton on Dec 30, 2014 16:37:12 GMT -4
Yes, and he was a major contributor to what I believe was Mr. Dumont's only winning percentage season, as a coach, in the Q. He is not the first player to go through a slump. Again, many players that go through slumps lose confidence and show frustration. It is a major part of a coach's job, particularly at this age, to help direct them out. It may possibly have been that Mr. Dumont compounded the problem with the way he handled the situation. Most likely none of us spend time with the team, so I think it"s unfair to say he quit on his team. I am a believer that statistics don't lie. He was getting the same shots per game. His assists per game were on par. He hit numerous posts, but he was becoming way too frustrated and wasn't scoring. End result, he needed a change and he got it. It's working out so far for him and I wish him the best, as I do for every kid in this league.
By that logic it's unfair for you to say anything negative about Dumont in this situation.
First off, I don't know Mr. Dumont personally so I am not criticizing him. I was just saying, in light of Darcy's sudden turnaround, that Mr. Dumont as coach may have possibly handled the situation better. Mr. Dumont is expected to know more about the game of hockey than most of us, as he is paid well to do so. I'm also not so sure that if we changed coach's, that we would be another Chicoutimi. Chicoutimi is loaded with quality 19 year olds. As I've said in another post, we don't have any star 19's and only one star 20. We have have an abundance of quality 18's, but unless you have a Crosby or a MacKinnon, you better have more than one high end 19 or 20.
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Post by EagleFan2009 on Dec 30, 2014 17:27:58 GMT -4
By that logic it's unfair for you to say anything negative about Dumont in this situation.
First off, I don't know Mr. Dumont personally so I am not criticizing him. I was just saying, in light of Darcy's sudden turnaround, that Mr. Dumont as coach may have possibly handled the situation better. Mr. Dumont is expected to know more about the game of hockey than most of us, as he is paid well to do so. I'm also not so sure that if we changed coach's, that we would be another Chicoutimi. Chicoutimi is loaded with quality 19 year olds. As I've said in another post, we don't have any star 19's and only one star 20. We have have an abundance of quality 18's, but unless you have a Crosby or a MacKinnon, you better have more than one high end 19 or 20.
You can swing it whatever way you want, the coach has to take the heat first. It's time for a change. Dumont constructed this team, and coaches it, so he is at fault for the way this team is performing. Yes we were warned by the quebec posters, and we found out the hard way. I for one am now on the bandwagon of wanting to see him gone. This team obviously does not want to play for this coach. The skill on paper compared to the wins and losses is way to far apart to not blame dumont.
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Post by jamesnorris on Dec 30, 2014 17:29:32 GMT -4
By that logic it's unfair for you to say anything negative about Dumont in this situation.
First off, I don't know Mr. Dumont personally so I am not criticizing him. I was just saying, in light of Darcy's sudden turnaround, that Mr. Dumont as coach may have possibly handled the situation better. Mr. Dumont is expected to know more about the game of hockey than most of us, as he is paid well to do so. I'm also not so sure that if we changed coach's, that we would be another Chicoutimi. Chicoutimi is loaded with quality 19 year olds. As I've said in another post, we don't have any star 19's and only one star 20. We have have an abundance of quality 18's, but unless you have a Crosby or a MacKinnon, you better have more than one high end 19 or 20.
That's BS and you know it. I remember you saying all of his trades have been average, you said you'd like to trade the coach, you said it was past time to start looking for a new coach not blaming the players, and now you're questioning his ability to handle a player that has a history of giving up when facing adversity (again, see Northeastern). Darcy came back from the AHL playing like a zombie and there's only so many chances you can give the player before you have to cut your loses. I also remember you saying "Time to move on" and yet here you are bumping the Darcy thread with his stats again. For the bold part you don't have to explain the ages of the players on this team to me, I've been saying it all season that this team is young based on the fact that they have 0 relevant 19 year olds.
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Post by gocapebreton on Dec 30, 2014 18:17:05 GMT -4
First off, I don't know Mr. Dumont personally so I am not criticizing him. I was just saying, in light of Darcy's sudden turnaround, that Mr. Dumont as coach may have possibly handled the situation better. Mr. Dumont is expected to know more about the game of hockey than most of us, as he is paid well to do so. I'm also not so sure that if we changed coach's, that we would be another Chicoutimi. Chicoutimi is loaded with quality 19 year olds. As I've said in another post, we don't have any star 19's and only one star 20. We have have an abundance of quality 18's, but unless you have a Crosby or a MacKinnon, you better have more than one high end 19 or 20.
That's BS and you know it. I remember you saying all of his trades have been average, you said you'd like to trade the coach, you said it was past time to start looking for a new coach not blaming the players, and now you're questioning his ability to handle a player that has a history of giving up when facing adversity (again, see Northeastern). Darcy came back from the AHL playing like a zombie and there's only so many chances you can give the player before you have to cut your loses. I also remember you saying "Time to move on" and yet here you are bumping the Darcy thread with his stats again. For the bold part you don't have to explain the ages of the players on this team to me, I've been saying it all season that this team is young based on the fact that they have 0 relevant 19 year olds.
I didn't criticize his trades, I did and still personally believe that most were average. I think any GM would have selected Roy 1st overall. When looking at what was received for a 3 month Charles Hudon rental, I don't think he got special compensation for a 1st overall highly touted prospect, who he himself felt was easily above the rest. I still feel that a coaching change may be necessary, I just feel that our lack of good 19 and 20's may not produce the same results as Chicoutimi. However if, and I say if, the rumour of players not content playing for him is true then a change may be necessary. Who do you blame having zero relevant 19 year olds on? Finally, as for moving on, geez who prolongs more debates than you? It would be nice to see you giving more on what you would do, instead of criticizing players and posters. And I haven't read some of the most recent posts, but have you explained this Northeastern thing.
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Post by jamesnorris on Dec 30, 2014 18:38:20 GMT -4
I didn't criticize his trades, I did and still personally believe that most were average. I think any GM would have selected Roy 1st overall. When looking at what was received for a 3 month Charles Hudon rental, I don't think he got special compensation for a 1st overall highly touted prospect, who he himself felt was easily above the rest. I still feel that a coaching change may be necessary, I just feel that our lack of good 19 and 20's may not produce the same results as Chicoutimi. However if, and I say if, the rumour of players not content playing for him is true then a change may be necessary. Who do you blame having zero relevant 19 year olds on? Finally, as for moving on, geez who prolongs more debates than you? It would be nice to see you giving more on what you would do, instead of criticizing players and posters. And I haven't read some of the most recent posts, but have you explained this Northeastern thing.
Calling his trades average is a criticism when most know as a whole they haven't been just average. The rumor of players not content playing for him? You mean the rumor posted anonymously on a fan forum? Seems legit. I don't blame anyone for having zero relevant 19 year olds? What does that even mean? I've been saying since the start of the season that the team is built for next year based on it's age but apparently saying that the teams performance between September & now could change that opinion if they were overachieving (in my books) in that period means I don't have an opinion. When you say you'd fire the coach and I disagree, isn't that me saying what I would do? Or does my response have to be a melodramatic overreaction to a loss or a former player scoring a goal for another team? If you're going to defend Darcy and need Northeastern explained to you, it pretty much confirms that you're just using it blindly to bash Dumont.
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Post by gocapebreton on Dec 30, 2014 18:56:58 GMT -4
I didn't criticize his trades, I did and still personally believe that most were average. I think any GM would have selected Roy 1st overall. When looking at what was received for a 3 month Charles Hudon rental, I don't think he got special compensation for a 1st overall highly touted prospect, who he himself felt was easily above the rest. I still feel that a coaching change may be necessary, I just feel that our lack of good 19 and 20's may not produce the same results as Chicoutimi. However if, and I say if, the rumour of players not content playing for him is true then a change may be necessary. Who do you blame having zero relevant 19 year olds on? Finally, as for moving on, geez who prolongs more debates than you? It would be nice to see you giving more on what you would do, instead of criticizing players and posters. And I haven't read some of the most recent posts, but have you explained this Northeastern thing.
Calling his trades average is a criticism when most know as a whole they haven't been just average. The rumor of players not content playing for him? You mean the rumor posted anonymously on a fan forum? Seems legit. I don't blame anyone for having zero relevant 19 year olds? What does that even mean? I've been saying since the start of the season that the team is built for next year based on it's age but apparently saying that the teams performance between September & now could change that opinion if they were overachieving (in my books) in that period means I don't have an opinion. When you say you'd fire the coach and I disagree, isn't that me saying what I would do? Or does my response have to be a melodramatic overreaction to a loss or a former player scoring a goal for another team? If you're going to defend Darcy and need Northeastern explained to you, it pretty much confirms that you're just using it blindly to bash Dumont.
It was two other posters that seemed to ask you to explain the northeastern thing, Have you?
I honestly do not know if players are content. But are my the only one who has seen this rumour more than once. And I understand that rumours are a dime a dozen.
Simply for the fact that Drummondville is selling. we should fare out above average on the Carrier trade. However, on the surface, when it was made, it was average as to what most of the GM's are demanding. Finally, could you elaborate on these above average trades.
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Post by jamesnorris on Dec 30, 2014 19:29:03 GMT -4
It was two other posters that seemed to ask you to explain the northeastern thing, Have you?
I honestly do not know if players are content. But are my the only one who has seen this rumour more than once. And I understand that rumours are a dime a dozen.
Simply for the fact that Drummondville is selling. we should fare out above average on the Carrier trade. However, on the surface, when it was made, it was average as to what most of the GM's are demanding. Finally, could you elaborate on these above average trades.
Well we agree, you don't know whether or not the players are content playing for Dumont even though you bring it up every chance you get. If you don't remember the Ron Choules era already, go back to that to see what it looks like when players aren't happy with their coach. I'll save myself the time & energy by not elaborating, you'll just call the deals average like you did with the Roy trade and now Carrier trade lol As for Northeastern, if you haven't bothered to use a google search by now it's because you don't want to know what happened. It draws hilarious similarities to what happened this year but the NCAA doesn't do trades so people will bury their head in the sand and blame the coach because it's more convenient for them. The kid has a pattern and it won't work in the pros.
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Post by gocapebreton on Dec 30, 2014 20:17:36 GMT -4
It was two other posters that seemed to ask you to explain the northeastern thing, Have you?
I honestly do not know if players are content. But are my the only one who has seen this rumour more than once. And I understand that rumours are a dime a dozen.
Simply for the fact that Drummondville is selling. we should fare out above average on the Carrier trade. However, on the surface, when it was made, it was average as to what most of the GM's are demanding. Finally, could you elaborate on these above average trades.
Well we agree, you don't know whether or not the players are content playing for Dumont even though you bring it up every chance you get. If you don't remember the Ron Choules era already, go back to that to see what it looks like when players aren't happy with their coach. I'll save myself the time & energy by not elaborating, you'll just call the deals average like you did with the Roy trade and now Carrier trade lol As for Northeastern, if you haven't bothered to use a google search by now it's because you don't want to know what happened. It draws hilarious similarities to what happened this year but the NCAA doesn't do trades so people will bury their head in the sand and blame the coach because it's more convenient for them. The kid has a pattern and it won't work in the pros.
1) I don't bring up player discontent every chance I get. I was simply responding to hearing these rumours. And I did say that rumours are a dime a dozen.
2) Unlike you, I can at least explain what I comment on. When I say average, I mean as in comparison to other trades. The Roy trade, for example. The Eagles were getting the compensation pick regardless of who they traded Roy to. So in essence they received Loik Leveille, a 2014 19th overall, and what was expected to be(and may still be) a 15-19th overall pick in 2015 means that Chicoutimi at the time was expected to be contending for the memorial cup. Nicolas Roy will give Chicoutimi 3+ years of a very good player, draw people in to watch him, and probably bring back the same return as a 19 year old, if making comparisons to Charles Hudon. Do you think that's above average for the Eagles? Remember Dumont traded a 20th overall and a 1st (11th overall 2014) to move up to 12th overall in 2013.
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Post by jamesnorris on Dec 30, 2014 20:46:50 GMT -4
1) I don't bring up player discontent every chance I get. I was simply responding to hearing these rumours. And I did say that rumours are a dime a dozen.
2) Unlike you, I can at least explain what I comment on. When I say average, I mean as in comparison to other trades. The Roy trade, for example. The Eagles were getting the compensation pick regardless of who they traded Roy to. So in essence they received Loik Leveille, a 2014 19th overall, and what was expected to be(and may still be) a 15-19th overall pick in 2015 means that Chicoutimi at the time was expected to be contending for the memorial cup. Nicolas Roy will give Chicoutimi 3+ years of a very good player, draw people in to watch him, and probably bring back the same return as a 19 year old, if making comparisons to Charles Hudon. Do you think that's above average for the Eagles? Remember Dumont traded a 20th overall and a 1st (11th overall 2014) to move up to 12th overall in 2013.
There's no reason for me to explain myself to someone that won't listen or will turn that explanation into 5 different things. You can't eliminate the compensation when Dumont picked the player for the sole purpose of collecting the compensation & getting the assets from the trade and expect me to eat up that weak explanation lol that move was much more than just the final trade and I actually happily ate crow on that. I have no complaints about moving up to draft Jason Bell but I also don't have an illogical hate for puck moving defensemen. If that's the worst trade you can come up with than his trading record might be even better than I thought lol you're just trying to poke holes in everything because you think he's vulnerable.
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