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Post by statsman18 on May 29, 2015 12:20:06 GMT -4
It would be the best thing for you guys. Bowers could slip to number 4 and you guys get to pick him and your handed your 2nd line center. He might not be the number 2 guy right off the bat by the end of the year he should be more then capable to handle 2nd line duties. On a contending team I don't think he'll be the kind of #2 Centre they'll be hoping for ... But he could certainly help them find one for sure. Regardless it's a win win for CB if Veleno does enter the draft ... I think he can be by the end of the year. The players they already have just make it easier for him. I mean I don't expect the kid to be a PPG guy but he should be as good or slightly better then what Dubois was as a 16yo.
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Post by downthemiddle on May 29, 2015 12:24:16 GMT -4
Seems there is a concensus top 3 with debate between those 3 this year so if Veleno gets in biggest winners IMO are SJ at 1 and CB at 4 but obviously bittersweet for CB having given up 1...
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 29, 2015 12:59:32 GMT -4
On a contending team I don't think he'll be the kind of #2 Centre they'll be hoping for ... But he could certainly help them find one for sure. Regardless it's a win win for CB if Veleno does enter the draft ... I think he can be by the end of the year. The players they already have just make it easier for him. I mean I don't expect the kid to be a PPG guy but he should be as good or slightly better then what Dubois was as a 16yo. Dubois at 16 ran out of gas a bit in the playoffs once the intensity went up a notch. No room for error like that as a contender. And few contenders in this league will have a 16 and 17yr old in their top 6 up front.
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Post by statsman18 on May 29, 2015 13:09:36 GMT -4
I think he can be by the end of the year. The players they already have just make it easier for him. I mean I don't expect the kid to be a PPG guy but he should be as good or slightly better then what Dubois was as a 16yo. Dubois at 16 ran out of gas a bit in the playoffs once the intensity went up a notch. No room for error like that as a contender. And few contenders in this league will have a 16 and 17yr old in their top 6 up front. Halifax won it all with 5 17yos. VD had 6 17 and 16yo on their teams when they won the league. SJ had 3 17yo on the team that won it all in 2011. Just saying. Not all of these players played top minutes but most actually did.
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Post by looneytunes on May 29, 2015 13:14:57 GMT -4
Would have been more of a win if they didn't trade away their Drummondville pick. They don't do that they don't have Leblanc who helps nail down their top pairing. Gotta weigh good with bad here. I think he meant that they could have traded the Chicoutimi pick and likely still get the same. Maybe not but probably.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 13:15:02 GMT -4
Dubois at 16 ran out of gas a bit in the playoffs once the intensity went up a notch. No room for error like that as a contender. And few contenders in this league will have a 16 and 17yr old in their top 6 up front. Halifax won it all with 5 17yos. VD had 6 17 and 16yo on their teams when they won the league. SJ had 3 17yo on the team that won it all in 2011. Just saying. Not all of these players played top minutes but most actually did. The problem with this theory is how many had 16 year old players as their #2 Center? - Not suggesting they should draft Bowers if the chance is there either but just don't think they should pin their hopes on a 16 year old kid coming in and filling a void as a #2 Center
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 13:16:04 GMT -4
They don't do that they don't have Leblanc who helps nail down their top pairing. Gotta weigh good with bad here. I think he meant that they could have traded the Chicoutimi pick and likely still get the same. Maybe not but probably. Personally I think Darrell Young counted on Drummondville dropping which is why he insisted on the pick being the Volts pick
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Post by emerz on May 29, 2015 13:18:50 GMT -4
I think he meant that they could have traded the Chicoutimi pick and likely still get the same. Maybe not but probably. Personally I think Darrell Young counted on Drummondville dropping which is why he insisted on the pick being the Volts pick Definitely a good decision by Young, I believe at the time Chicoutimi were quite a bit lower than Drummondville and also on a pretty big loss streak, I think most figured the Chicoutimi pick would be the lowest pick of our 3. Would still do the trade over again though, its a win-win situation in my opinion.
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 29, 2015 13:30:11 GMT -4
Dubois at 16 ran out of gas a bit in the playoffs once the intensity went up a notch. No room for error like that as a contender. And few contenders in this league will have a 16 and 17yr old in their top 6 up front. Halifax won it all with 5 17yos. VD had 6 17 and 16yo on their teams when they won the league. SJ had 3 17yo on the team that won it all in 2011. Just saying. Not all of these players played top minutes but most actually did. Halifax had MacKinnon and Drouin. You can't use that as a comparison for anyone else. That's an extreme exception to the rule. And even they couldn't win at 16. I think we can win with a Dubois in the top 6 but not with Dubois and a 16yr old 2nd line center. We need a veteran in that spot to help replace some of the veterans we are losing.
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Post by statsman18 on May 29, 2015 14:40:26 GMT -4
Halifax won it all with 5 17yos. VD had 6 17 and 16yo on their teams when they won the league. SJ had 3 17yo on the team that won it all in 2011. Just saying. Not all of these players played top minutes but most actually did. Halifax had MacKinnon and Drouin. You can't use that as a comparison for anyone else. That's an extreme exception to the rule. And even they couldn't win at 16. I think we can win with a Dubois in the top 6 but not with Dubois and a 16yr old 2nd line center. We need a veteran in that spot to help replace some of the veterans we are losing. What's sad here is you only defended one team. That I said had 5 17yo. 2 of which are now playing in the Mem Cup. I kept looking and found out that out of the last 6 years 4 teams had at lest one 17yo or 16yo that played either top 6 forwards or top 4 Defensemen. Now i didn't actually know this until you said what you did. Then I just looked and found out this info.
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 29, 2015 14:46:39 GMT -4
Halifax had MacKinnon and Drouin. You can't use that as a comparison for anyone else. That's an extreme exception to the rule. And even they couldn't win at 16. I think we can win with a Dubois in the top 6 but not with Dubois and a 16yr old 2nd line center. We need a veteran in that spot to help replace some of the veterans we are losing. What's sad here is you only defended one team. That I said had 5 17yo. 2 of which are now playing in the Mem Cup. I kept looking and found out that out of the last 6 years 4 teams had at lest one 17yo or 16yo that played either top 6 forwards or top 4 Defensemen. Now i didn't actually know this until you said what you did. Then I just looked and found out this info. How is it sad? I used the most blatant example that we all know best. Take Drouin and Mackinnon away and 2 of Quebecs players are playing in their 1st Mem Cup. Everyone agrees with that. I don't know what players you're using for the other teams and don't care enough to look as it isn't going to change my opinion. As a contender you're not planning on a playoff run with a 16yr old #2 center. Especially since contenders rarely pick high the year before they content. I agree you can have 1 and be fine or else i'd be behind trading Dubois right now. But once you start gambling important spots like top 2 C or top 4 D on 16yr olds you're probably fighting a losing battle as a contender. It's one thing to draft a Bowers and have him end up there, it's a complete other situation to plan for him to be the #2 C.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 14:48:17 GMT -4
Halifax had MacKinnon and Drouin. You can't use that as a comparison for anyone else. That's an extreme exception to the rule. And even they couldn't win at 16. I think we can win with a Dubois in the top 6 but not with Dubois and a 16yr old 2nd line center. We need a veteran in that spot to help replace some of the veterans we are losing. What's sad here is you only defended one team. That I said had 5 17yo. 2 of which are now playing in the Mem Cup. I kept looking and found out that out of the last 6 years 4 teams had at lest one 17yo or 16yo that played either top 6 forwards or top 4 Defensemen. Now i didn't actually know this until you said what you did. Then I just looked and found out this info. The problem is you're talking about 17 year old players not 16 year old players ... There is a big difference - Shane Bowers at 17 could very possibly be considered the #2 Center on a contender after a full year in the league. Of the 16 year old group on these teams how many played a legit role in a team's top 6 forwards or top 4 on D?
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Post by statsman18 on May 29, 2015 14:55:53 GMT -4
What's sad here is you only defended one team. That I said had 5 17yo. 2 of which are now playing in the Mem Cup. I kept looking and found out that out of the last 6 years 4 teams had at lest one 17yo or 16yo that played either top 6 forwards or top 4 Defensemen. Now i didn't actually know this until you said what you did. Then I just looked and found out this info. How is it sad? I used the most blatant example that we all know best. Take Drouin and Mackinnon away and 2 of Quebecs players are playing in their 1st Mem Cup. Everyone agrees with that. I don't know what players you're using for the other teams and don't care enough to look as it isn't going to change my opinion. As a contender you're not planning on a playoff run with a 16yr old #2 center. Especially since contenders rarely pick high the year before they content. I agree you can have 1 and be fine or else i'd be behind trading Dubois right now. But once you start gambling important spots like top 2 C or top 4 D on 16yr olds you're probably fighting a losing battle as a contender. It's one thing to draft a Bowers and have him end up there, it's a complete other situation to plan for him to be the #2 C. It sad because you cherry pick and take away players to make it right for you. But the fact is it happened. How good they are or not it happened and they were this age.
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Post by bois on May 29, 2015 15:05:48 GMT -4
Bowers would be a 16 year old
name these 16 year old rookies who played prominent roles on the Memorial Cup contending teams
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 15:08:01 GMT -4
How is it sad? I used the most blatant example that we all know best. Take Drouin and Mackinnon away and 2 of Quebecs players are playing in their 1st Mem Cup. Everyone agrees with that. I don't know what players you're using for the other teams and don't care enough to look as it isn't going to change my opinion. As a contender you're not planning on a playoff run with a 16yr old #2 center. Especially since contenders rarely pick high the year before they content. I agree you can have 1 and be fine or else i'd be behind trading Dubois right now. But once you start gambling important spots like top 2 C or top 4 D on 16yr olds you're probably fighting a losing battle as a contender. It's one thing to draft a Bowers and have him end up there, it's a complete other situation to plan for him to be the #2 C. It sad because you cherry pick and take away players to make it right for you. But the fact is it happened. How good they are or not it happened and they were this age. How good they are does matter because we're talking about a 2nd line Center on a contender so it is relevant in terms of how good they are. Most championship teams have a 16 year old or 2 sprinkled on their roster but their role on the team is the question.
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