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Post by Reesor on Aug 26, 2015 13:38:27 GMT -4
While that's valid, the Moose really haven't had any standout 16yo dmen drafted early. I think Simon Desmarais was the last 16yo dman to make the Moose as a 16yo back in 2010, and he didn't really pan out the way many thought he would. The Moose don't tend to spend 1st round picks on defencemen. They actually haven't since Ben MacAskill back in 2005. The vast majority of 2nd/3rd round 16yo dmen don't play in this league, no matter what team/coach they play for. And especially concerning dmen in any round, the Moose haven't exactly hit it out of the park with their dmen drafting in recent history. Picking Steve Gillard in the 11th round obviously worked out. But there are more names like Richard Greer, Jamie Bishop and Brian Lovell that stick out as 2nd/3rd round picks that didn't turn into at the very least, top 4 dmen. Trey Lewis was a 3rd or 4th round pick- I would say he worked out alright. As for Jamie Bishop, Cam realized his mistake and got a 3rd from Rimouski in 2011. The Mooseheads track record with drafting defencemen should improve over the next few years with who they have drafted last year and this year. I really hope so. To be quite honest, the Moose's drafting the last few years hasn't been the greatest. The "Diamonds in the rough" have been players drafted later that have actually made the team. Trey Lewis was an integral part of a Memorial Cup team. He hit, fought, killed penalties, and chipped in with a few points (23 in 59 games in 2012-13). But it wasn't like he was our #1 dman. Some more fun stats: Moose Dman scoring leaders: 2015 - Cavan Fitzgerald (Free Agent) 2014 - Mackenzie Weegar (Free Agent) 2013 - Konrad Abeltshauser (Import Pick) 2012 - Konrad Abeltshauser (Import Pick) 2011 - Konrad Abeltshauser (Import Pick) 2010 - Pascal Amyot (Drafted by SJ 2nd round 20th overall) 2009 - Justin Pender (Drafted by Halifax 7th round 125th overall)2008 - Andrew Bodnarchuk (Drafted by Moncton 5th round 74th overall) 2007 - Andrew Bodnarchuk (Drafted by Moncton 5th round 74th overall) 2006 - Franklin MacDonald (Free Agent) Once in the last 10 seasons has a defenceman who the Moose drafted themselves in the midget draft, led the team in defensive scoring at some point in their career (and it was a 7th round pick in one of our worst statistical years ever that did it). Free agents are awesome to be able to plug in and contribute. Every team has to be able to find them to compete. And of course Abeltshauser was awesome to have here on and off the ice. But the Moose have never really been able to draft those franchise cornerstone defencemen. I'll point out that Jimmy Sharrow led the team in D scoring in 2005, and he was drafted 17th overall (2nd round) in 2002.
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Post by moosefan1994 on Aug 26, 2015 14:09:01 GMT -4
Trey Lewis was a 3rd or 4th round pick- I would say he worked out alright. As for Jamie Bishop, Cam realized his mistake and got a 3rd from Rimouski in 2011. The Mooseheads track record with drafting defencemen should improve over the next few years with who they have drafted last year and this year. I really hope so. To be quite honest, the Moose's drafting the last few years hasn't been the greatest. The "Diamonds in the rough" have been players drafted later that have actually made the team. Trey Lewis was an integral part of a Memorial Cup team. He hit, fought, killed penalties, and chipped in with a few points (23 in 59 games in 2012-13). But it wasn't like he was our #1 dman. Some more fun stats: Moose Dman scoring leaders: 2015 - Cavan Fitzgerald (Free Agent) 2014 - Mackenzie Weegar (Free Agent) 2013 - Konrad Abeltshauser (Import Pick) 2012 - Konrad Abeltshauser (Import Pick) 2011 - Konrad Abeltshauser (Import Pick) 2010 - Pascal Amyot (Drafted by SJ 2nd round 20th overall) 2009 - Justin Pender (Drafted by Halifax 7th round 125th overall)2008 - Andrew Bodnarchuk (Drafted by Moncton 5th round 74th overall) 2007 - Andrew Bodnarchuk (Drafted by Moncton 5th round 74th overall) 2006 - Franklin MacDonald (Free Agent) Once in the last 10 seasons has a defenceman who the Moose drafted themselves in the midget draft, led the team in defensive scoring at some point in their career (and it was a 7th round pick in one of our worst statistical years ever that did it). Free agents are awesome to be able to plug in and contribute. Every team has to be able to find them to compete. And of course Abeltshauser was awesome to have here on and off the ice. But the Moose have never really been able to draft those franchise cornerstone defencemen. I'll point out that Jimmy Sharrow led the team in D scoring in 2005, and he was drafted 17th overall (2nd round) in 2002. I get your point- it is not all that different from what Briwhel was saying a month or so ago except he was criticizing the Mooseheads from rarely taking D with our first round picks. In the big picture- does it really matter when the Mooseheads are taking defencemen in the draft? Cam said that he drafted Lepage and Charlesbois in the 3rd round this year because they had fallen into those spots- I for one was shocked Charlesbois was still there as I thought he would be gone early 2nd with a shot at going late in round 1. IMO unless a D is head and shoulders and 100% sure to be better than an F when you draft you take the F in the 1st round- forwards take less time to get used to the league than a D all other things equal. In the 2015 draft the Mooseheads had extra picks higher in the draft and were able to draft 3 D with those picks due to having the picks for one and circumstance, those D actually being available, two. I don't think anyone will really be upset if in a couple years our top 6 is Ford, Nauss, Argento, Flower, Lepage and Charlesbois and that none of them were drafted in the 1st round.
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Post by Gman on Aug 26, 2015 14:15:55 GMT -4
There aren't many impact D available early in the draft period. Usually when there are, they go top 5, and the ones taken later on in the 1st are hit or miss. Some may not be offensive, or they might be too much of a liability. For the most part, in the recent (last 20 years) history of the league, most of the impact dmen were not taken in round 1. Saint John will argue otherwise, but how many teams get to pick first overall in like 50% of their years in existence? It was a fluke that it just so happened 3 years in a row, a dman was rated #1 (other than the Esposito incident). And look at those guys now, only Despres made it to the big time, while Grant and Sauve are career AHL'ers.
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Post by Reesor on Aug 26, 2015 14:18:21 GMT -4
I really hope so. To be quite honest, the Moose's drafting the last few years hasn't been the greatest. The "Diamonds in the rough" have been players drafted later that have actually made the team. Trey Lewis was an integral part of a Memorial Cup team. He hit, fought, killed penalties, and chipped in with a few points (23 in 59 games in 2012-13). But it wasn't like he was our #1 dman. Some more fun stats: Moose Dman scoring leaders: 2015 - Cavan Fitzgerald (Free Agent) 2014 - Mackenzie Weegar (Free Agent) 2013 - Konrad Abeltshauser (Import Pick) 2012 - Konrad Abeltshauser (Import Pick) 2011 - Konrad Abeltshauser (Import Pick) 2010 - Pascal Amyot (Drafted by SJ 2nd round 20th overall) 2009 - Justin Pender (Drafted by Halifax 7th round 125th overall)2008 - Andrew Bodnarchuk (Drafted by Moncton 5th round 74th overall) 2007 - Andrew Bodnarchuk (Drafted by Moncton 5th round 74th overall) 2006 - Franklin MacDonald (Free Agent) Once in the last 10 seasons has a defenceman who the Moose drafted themselves in the midget draft, led the team in defensive scoring at some point in their career (and it was a 7th round pick in one of our worst statistical years ever that did it). Free agents are awesome to be able to plug in and contribute. Every team has to be able to find them to compete. And of course Abeltshauser was awesome to have here on and off the ice. But the Moose have never really been able to draft those franchise cornerstone defencemen. I'll point out that Jimmy Sharrow led the team in D scoring in 2005, and he was drafted 17th overall (2nd round) in 2002. I get your point- it is not all that different from what Briwhel was saying a month or so ago except he was criticizing the Mooseheads from rarely taking D with our first round picks. In the big picture- does it really matter when the Mooseheads are taking defencemen in the draft? Cam said that he drafted Lepage and Charlesbois in the 3rd round this year because they had fallen into those spots- I for one was shocked Charlesbois was still there as I thought he would be gone early 2nd with a shot at going late in round 1. IMO unless a D is head and shoulders and 100% sure to be better than an F when you draft you take the F in the 1st round- forwards take less time to get used to the league than a D all other things equal. In the 2015 draft the Mooseheads had extra picks higher in the draft and were able to draft 3 D with those picks due to having the picks for one and circumstance, those D actually being available, two. I don't think anyone will really be upset if in a couple years our top 6 is Ford, Nauss, Argento, Flower, Lepage and Charlesbois and that none of them were drafted in the 1st round. And I'd never want Halifax to draft a dman in the 1st round just because they have a need, rather than picking the best player available. I agree with your statement that dmen in general take longer to develop. I'd love for those 6 players you mentioned to develop and become our top 6. It's hard to picture any of them being a powerplay quarterback any time soon, but we just have to hope I guess.
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Post by Joe Rogan on Aug 26, 2015 14:34:36 GMT -4
Any one of Nauss, Jones or Flower could develop into effective PP guys.
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Post by moosefan1994 on Aug 26, 2015 14:38:39 GMT -4
I get your point- it is not all that different from what Briwhel was saying a month or so ago except he was criticizing the Mooseheads from rarely taking D with our first round picks. In the big picture- does it really matter when the Mooseheads are taking defencemen in the draft? Cam said that he drafted Lepage and Charlesbois in the 3rd round this year because they had fallen into those spots- I for one was shocked Charlesbois was still there as I thought he would be gone early 2nd with a shot at going late in round 1. IMO unless a D is head and shoulders and 100% sure to be better than an F when you draft you take the F in the 1st round- forwards take less time to get used to the league than a D all other things equal. In the 2015 draft the Mooseheads had extra picks higher in the draft and were able to draft 3 D with those picks due to having the picks for one and circumstance, those D actually being available, two. I don't think anyone will really be upset if in a couple years our top 6 is Ford, Nauss, Argento, Flower, Lepage and Charlesbois and that none of them were drafted in the 1st round. And I'd never want Halifax to draft a dman in the 1st round just because they have a need, rather than picking the best player available. I agree with your statement that dmen in general take longer to develop. I'd love for those 6 players you mentioned to develop and become our top 6. It's hard to picture any of them being a powerplay quarterback any time soon, but we just have to hope I guess. Actually- I forgot to include Cooper Jones in that group. He is undersized but he looks like he could end up being the prototypical Q league PP quarterback defenceman for us. Sort of like a mini-me version of Mackenzie Weegar....
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Post by moosefan1994 on Aug 26, 2015 14:45:06 GMT -4
Any one of Nauss, Jones or Flower could develop into effective PP guys. And all in different ways- Nauss for vision; Flower for his shot; Jones for the rover ability. That is the way I see it from watching Nauss last year and 1 game each from Flower and Jones. Charlesbois and Argento appear like they have offensive instincts; they need some polishing.
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Post by statsman18 on Aug 26, 2015 14:50:52 GMT -4
Any one of Nauss, Jones or Flower could develop into effective PP guys. I think your over valuing Flower here. From what I've seen he seems more of a 2 way guy that might be stronger on the defensive side.
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Post by moosefan1994 on Aug 26, 2015 14:58:01 GMT -4
Any one of Nauss, Jones or Flower could develop into effective PP guys. I think your over valuing Flower here. From what I've seen he seems more of a 2 way guy that might be stronger on the defensive side. Have you seen his shot? He has one of the hardest shots from a 16 year old D I have seen. He doesn't have the passing skills yet like say a Markov has from what I have seen but he could have Nauss setting him up for one-timers on the PP down the line.
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Post by crash on Aug 26, 2015 16:31:56 GMT -4
Hunter and Charlebois, and King cut.
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Post by hfxfan09 on Aug 26, 2015 16:37:14 GMT -4
I hope Hunter gets another chance in the Q or in the AUS he played half a season for us so well and realy I thought did well in last season's playoffs but now with our final roster; we can look at winning our final 2 exhibition games. 22 Days till our home opener, Congragulations guys we are going with 8 rookies and it looks like Putstinev may be another special player; Cam may have found another gem.
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Post by crash on Aug 26, 2015 16:40:35 GMT -4
Hunter and Charlebois, and King cut. Charlebois sent back to midget. Hunter and King released. Both went unclaimed on waivers.
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Post by Reesor on Aug 26, 2015 16:41:46 GMT -4
Interesting that they chose to cut King and Hunter rather than keep them and simply assign Bishop and Flower to Midget. As a fan, I like the decision, as I'd prefer the younger kids get a shot in a rebuilding year.
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Post by howitzer on Aug 26, 2015 16:42:40 GMT -4
Looks like Flower and Bishop made it then.
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Post by Y Ddraig Goch on Aug 26, 2015 16:49:34 GMT -4
Now I guess it's who gets the C andA's
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