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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 10, 2020 8:13:32 GMT -4
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2020 5:56:33 GMT -4
Very interesting reading this week as more details come out about the shooter as he had withdrawn almost half a million dollars in cash two weeks before the shooting - the police cruiser decals had been made by a member of a biker organization - and speculation has the shooter as a long-time RCMP informant. Who knows what to really believe until an official inquiry - but MacLean's Magazine has always seemed to be a reputable publication that does not print in depth stories without a solid amount of fact. There is also video footage of the shooter withdrawing the $450,000. Just a bizarre situation that seems to continue to raise more questions as time goes on than it answers. . . Shooter withdraws large sum
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 22, 2020 16:17:37 GMT -4
Very interesting reading this week as more details come out about the shooter as he had withdrawn almost half a million dollars in cash two weeks before the shooting - the police cruiser decals had been made by a member of a biker organization - and speculation has the shooter as a long-time RCMP informant. Who knows what to really believe until an official inquiry - but MacLean's Magazine has always seemed to be a reputable publication that does not print in depth stories without a solid amount of fact. There is also video footage of the shooter withdrawing the $450,000. Just a bizarre situation that seems to continue to raise more questions as time goes on than it answers. . . Shooter withdraws large sumThe "informant" part makes little sense. If that was the case they would have known a lot more about him than they did. Plus it would have come out much sooner. No evidence that he was into drugs or any other gang so what would he inform them on? People getting dentures?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2020 18:05:02 GMT -4
Very interesting reading this week as more details come out about the shooter as he had withdrawn almost half a million dollars in cash two weeks before the shooting - the police cruiser decals had been made by a member of a biker organization - and speculation has the shooter as a long-time RCMP informant. Who knows what to really believe until an official inquiry - but MacLean's Magazine has always seemed to be a reputable publication that does not print in depth stories without a solid amount of fact. There is also video footage of the shooter withdrawing the $450,000. Just a bizarre situation that seems to continue to raise more questions as time goes on than it answers. . . Shooter withdraws large sumThe "informant" part makes little sense. If that was the case they would have known a lot more about him than they did. Plus it would have come out much sooner. No evidence that he was into drugs or any other gang so what would he inform them on? People getting dentures? I believe that's the whole point being made here by Rick Howe and a series of stories by MacLean's Magazine - that THEY DID know a whole lot more about him (the killer) - but chose to look the other way. I could be wrong - but that's what I get out of reading these stories. I just found it interesting reading about the biker neighbour of Wortman's who was a close family member of one of the shooting victims - who was a prison guard (biker and prison guard were cousins) - and the biker member was the one to actually print up the cruiser decals - and then Wortman picked up $475,000 in cash at the Brinks office which is next to impossible to do through a registered bank and is shown on a vid doing it - and all of this happened less than two weeks before the shootings. . . Then they claim that this (Brinks withdrawal of large amounts of cash - $475,000 in $100.00 bills) is a common way for the RCMP to pay informants in major undercover investigations - and then they (stories) insinuate that somebody put two and two together to figure out who the informant was - and all hell broke loose. . . I have no idea what happened - just saying that it made for interesting reading - and it will make for a very interesting public inquiry if one is ever conducted - more twists and turns than the road to Guysborough. . .
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Post by MikeC on Jun 22, 2020 20:06:05 GMT -4
The "informant" part makes little sense. If that was the case they would have known a lot more about him than they did. Plus it would have come out much sooner. No evidence that he was into drugs or any other gang so what would he inform them on? People getting dentures? I believe that's the whole point being made here by Rick Howe and a series of stories by MacLean's Magazine - that THEY DID know a whole lot more about him (the killer) - but chose to look the other way. I could be wrong - but that's what I get out of reading these stories. I just found it interesting reading about the biker neighbour of Wortman's who was a close family member of one of the shooting victims - who was a prison guard (biker and prison guard were cousins) - and the biker member was the one to actually print up the cruiser decals - and then Wortman picked up $475,000 in cash at the Brinks office which is next to impossible to do through a registered bank and is shown on a vid doing it - and all of this happened less than two weeks before the shootings. . . Then they claim that this (Brinks withdrawal of large amounts of cash - $475,000 in $100.00 bills) is a common way for the RCMP to pay informants in major undercover investigations - and then they (stories) insinuate that somebody put two and two together to figure out who the informant was - and all hell broke loose. . . I have no idea what happened - just saying that it made for interesting reading - and it will make for a very interesting public inquiry if one is ever conducted - more twists and turns than the road to Guysborough. . . Other interesting reading was the shooter receiving a speeding ticket on a rural road in NS in February, driving his fake cop car none-the-less, at the exact same time that a number of simultaneous busts were being made on the Hells Angels, and the RCMP source saying that is exactly how a CI would be notified. Not to mention the RCMP playbook that allows them to lie to anyone except the courts regarding CI's, which would explain the press conference denial of any association they had with the shooter. I'm the furthest thing from a conspiracy theorist, but this one has an odor.
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Post by lirette on Jun 22, 2020 20:33:27 GMT -4
Very interesting reading this week as more details come out about the shooter as he had withdrawn almost half a million dollars in cash two weeks before the shooting - the police cruiser decals had been made by a member of a biker organization - and speculation has the shooter as a long-time RCMP informant. Who knows what to really believe until an official inquiry - but MacLean's Magazine has always seemed to be a reputable publication that does not print in depth stories without a solid amount of fact. There is also video footage of the shooter withdrawing the $450,000. Just a bizarre situation that seems to continue to raise more questions as time goes on than it answers. . . Shooter withdraws large sumThe "informant" part makes little sense. If that was the case they would have known a lot more about him than they did. Plus it would have come out much sooner. No evidence that he was into drugs or any other gang so what would he inform them on? People getting dentures? Did you read the articles ? They've been able to connect him to the Hells Angels as well as a neighbour who was arrested in relation to a Mexican Drug cartel a few years back. Ozark Vibes...I think we've reached a point where we simply cant take what the RCMP says at face value with their internal investigations. While SIRT is supposed to be "impartial" I think past history doesn't leave the public feeling comfortable. Whether its these connections, the lack of communcation that night (only a few tweets) or the killers history with domestic violence there is clearly enough there for a public inquiry. If there's anything that deserves this level of attention and transparency I'd say the largest mass shooting in Canadian history does. Perhaps there's nothing more than speculation here, and the money he took out was legimate from his business, but we (and the families of the victims) deserve to understand what happened here, and what can be done in the future to prevent this.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 23, 2020 7:50:36 GMT -4
Very interesting reading this week as more details come out about the shooter as he had withdrawn almost half a million dollars in cash two weeks before the shooting - the police cruiser decals had been made by a member of a biker organization - and speculation has the shooter as a long-time RCMP informant. Who knows what to really believe until an official inquiry - but MacLean's Magazine has always seemed to be a reputable publication that does not print in depth stories without a solid amount of fact. There is also video footage of the shooter withdrawing the $450,000. Just a bizarre situation that seems to continue to raise more questions as time goes on than it answers. . . Shooter withdraws large sumThe "informant" part makes little sense. If that was the case they would have known a lot more about him than they did. Plus it would have come out much sooner. No evidence that he was into drugs or any other gang so what would he inform them on? People getting dentures? How doesn't it make sense? He had ties to hells angels/illegal gun trade. They're not going to come out immediately and say what he was doing for them because it could put his surviving family at risk. Maybe their operation isn't over with...so you can't expect them to come out immediately with anything surrounding it as it would still be an active investigation. The mass amounts of money being withdrawn, which according to MacLeans could really only be done by a CI, is definitely reason enough to raise questions. How other things have been handled, especially his past by the RCMP, also raises questions.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 23, 2020 7:58:37 GMT -4
The "informant" part makes little sense. If that was the case they would have known a lot more about him than they did. Plus it would have come out much sooner. No evidence that he was into drugs or any other gang so what would he inform them on? People getting dentures? I believe that's the whole point being made here by Rick Howe and a series of stories by MacLean's Magazine - that THEY DID know a whole lot more about him (the killer) - but chose to look the other way. I could be wrong - but that's what I get out of reading these stories. I just found it interesting reading about the biker neighbour of Wortman's who was a close family member of one of the shooting victims - who was a prison guard (biker and prison guard were cousins) - and the biker member was the one to actually print up the cruiser decals - and then Wortman picked up $475,000 in cash at the Brinks office which is next to impossible to do through a registered bank and is shown on a vid doing it - and all of this happened less than two weeks before the shootings. . . Then they claim that this (Brinks withdrawal of large amounts of cash - $475,000 in $100.00 bills) is a common way for the RCMP to pay informants in major undercover investigations - and then they (stories) insinuate that somebody put two and two together to figure out who the informant was - and all hell broke loose. . . I have no idea what happened - just saying that it made for interesting reading - and it will make for a very interesting public inquiry if one is ever conducted - more twists and turns than the road to Guysborough. . . Sounds a bit too far fethched to me. If they knew him, they would have known he had a cruiser in the backyard and would have been much quicker to find him.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 23, 2020 8:02:48 GMT -4
The "informant" part makes little sense. If that was the case they would have known a lot more about him than they did. Plus it would have come out much sooner. No evidence that he was into drugs or any other gang so what would he inform them on? People getting dentures? How doesn't it make sense? He had ties to hells angels/illegal gun trade. They're not going to come out immediately and say what he was doing for them because it could put his surviving family at risk. Maybe their operation isn't over with...so you can't expect them to come out immediately with anything surrounding it as it would still be an active investigation. The mass amounts of money being withdrawn, which according to MacLeans could really only be done by a CI, is definitely reason enough to raise questions. How other things have been handled, especially his past by the RCMP, also raises questions. If he really had ties to the Hells, the police would have known a lot more about him and what type of car he had etc Also, being part of that organisation, people in the area would definitely know that, usually Hells let their presence known and there would have been biker activity at his house that neighbors would have seen. This guy was the opening item on newscasts for 2 weeks and NOBODY mentionned a word about him being a biker or even possibly being a biker? Doesn't pass the sniff test for me.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 23, 2020 8:23:16 GMT -4
How doesn't it make sense? He had ties to hells angels/illegal gun trade. They're not going to come out immediately and say what he was doing for them because it could put his surviving family at risk. Maybe their operation isn't over with...so you can't expect them to come out immediately with anything surrounding it as it would still be an active investigation. The mass amounts of money being withdrawn, which according to MacLeans could really only be done by a CI, is definitely reason enough to raise questions. How other things have been handled, especially his past by the RCMP, also raises questions. If he really had ties to the Hells, the police would have known a lot more about him and what type of car he had etc Also, being part of that organisation, people in the area would definitely know that, usually Hells let their presence known and there would have been biker activity at his house that neighbors would have seen. This guy was the opening item on newscasts for 2 weeks and NOBODY mentionned a word about him being a biker or even possibly being a biker? Doesn't pass the sniff test for me. The police do know more about him. They're just not telling us what they know. They're saying very little in case you haven't noticed and that isn't passing the sniff test, either. Not sure why you can't just acknowledge that if he was a CI that the cops wouldn't be bragging about it. It would mean they have an active investigation to protect outside of this homicide. If your neighbour was Hells Angels it wouldn't necessarily be obvious. Especially if it was a professional like he was. Not every Hells Angels rep locally is a 280lb biker. And not every person with ties to illegal cartels is a skinny crack head. Some are people like you and I with normal careers but have family/acquaintances who get them tied up in those things. It's not about passing a sniff test. It's about acknowledging the possibility is there and there's starting to be many dots connected to say there's a LOT more to this which is a reason it's been so secretive since day 1 and the RCMP haven't said much.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 23, 2020 8:27:07 GMT -4
I believe that's the whole point being made here by Rick Howe and a series of stories by MacLean's Magazine - that THEY DID know a whole lot more about him (the killer) - but chose to look the other way. I could be wrong - but that's what I get out of reading these stories. I just found it interesting reading about the biker neighbour of Wortman's who was a close family member of one of the shooting victims - who was a prison guard (biker and prison guard were cousins) - and the biker member was the one to actually print up the cruiser decals - and then Wortman picked up $475,000 in cash at the Brinks office which is next to impossible to do through a registered bank and is shown on a vid doing it - and all of this happened less than two weeks before the shootings. . . Then they claim that this (Brinks withdrawal of large amounts of cash - $475,000 in $100.00 bills) is a common way for the RCMP to pay informants in major undercover investigations - and then they (stories) insinuate that somebody put two and two together to figure out who the informant was - and all hell broke loose. . . I have no idea what happened - just saying that it made for interesting reading - and it will make for a very interesting public inquiry if one is ever conducted - more twists and turns than the road to Guysborough. . . Sounds a bit too far fethched to me. If they knew him, they would have known he had a cruiser in the backyard and would have been much quicker to find him. How do you know they didn't find him quicker because they knew what he was driving? Keep in mind the first 7-8 hours of this happened during the night while it was dark so spotting a rogue RCMP car is nearly impossible until it's right on top of you and you're able to spot very subtle differences.....in an area crawling with RCMP cars. Whats far fetched to me is taking the police at face value in all this. Follow that money trail and you find your real story. They've had more then enough time to do that...when is that press conference?
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Post by lirette on Jun 23, 2020 16:12:51 GMT -4
Most important thing to note is that the RCMP handbook says:
“The identity of a source must be protected at all times except when the administration of justice requires otherwise, i.e. a member cannot mislead a court in any proceeding in order to protect a source. "
Due to this, we simply cannot sit by and accept any answers from the RCMP that they checked and have not worked with him. No ones drawing any final conclusions here, but there's enough to keep the pressure on for an inquiry. If THIS doesn't require an inquiry, what does?
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jul 28, 2020 7:44:48 GMT -4
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Jul 28, 2020 9:15:27 GMT -4
If anything needs a full open and transparent public inquiry it is this.
People will not fully trust conclusions of a review. There already are conspiracy theories. A closed door review will not clear the air or provide closure. It will probably make things worse. People have questions and need to trust their institutions.
Especially the embattled RCMP. Even if it's really ugly and mangled with mistakes it's better in the open than let any part stay hidden. I have never seen that organuzation second guessed as much as they have been the last 12 months.
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Post by themandalorian on Jul 28, 2020 9:24:03 GMT -4
If anything needs a full open and transparent public inquiry it is this. People will not fully trust conclusions of a review. There already are conspiracy theories. A closed door review will not clear the air or provide closure. It will probably make things worse. People have questions and need to trust their institutions. Especially the embattled RCMP. Even if it's really ugly and mangled with mistakes it's better in the open than let any part stay hidden. I have never seen that organuzation second guessed as much as they have been the last 12 months. And the politicians pushing for this farce of a review are trying to say that an inquiry will harm the family members of the victims who may not want a full inquiry... as far as I know ALL the families are behind the push for a full inquiry and not one has stepped forward to say they don't want this.
There has to be a full inquiry , in fact based upon the reports that have been put out there lately I would go as far as saying the RCMP needs to be investigated - they knew he was smuggling guns, he obviously got a huge cash payout days or weeks before the massacre.
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