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Post by scotiahockey on May 6, 2021 8:47:25 GMT -4
Interesting to note that the top 4 goalies with most NHL wins career are all Q products 1. Martin Brodeur 691 2. Patrick Roy 551 3. Marc-Andre Fleury 490 4. Roberto Luongo 489 All over 160 Q games if counting playoffs too. I strongly believe in junior you need to play every night to do this or the lions share of games. Workload helps them develop. Interestingly Luongo had 9 shutouts in junior. Brodeur and Fleury had 4 each. Roy had none. That certainly has alot to do with team in front of them. Another guy who I know was exceptional, played long in NHL and pro and is a Q product I thought at his peak was better than these guys was Felix Potvin. He played late 80s (defense challenged 80s) and so stats may fool you but he faced alot of shots. Something like 170 games in just 3 seasons and still chocked up a shutout 10 times (6 in his last season). 17 years in NHL. He took St. John's to Calder Cup final his only year in AHL. You think Potvin at his peak was better than Roy/Brodeur, who are generally considered 2 of the greatest to play the position? He was a good goalie but his peak wasn’t at those guys level.
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 6, 2021 8:53:08 GMT -4
Interesting to note that the top 4 goalies with most NHL wins career are all Q products 1. Martin Brodeur 691 2. Patrick Roy 551 3. Marc-Andre Fleury 490 4. Roberto Luongo 489 All over 160 Q games if counting playoffs too. I strongly believe in junior you need to play every night to do this or the lions share of games. Workload helps them develop. Interestingly Luongo had 9 shutouts in junior. Brodeur and Fleury had 4 each. Roy had none. That certainly has alot to do with team in front of them. Another guy who I know was exceptional, played long in NHL and pro and is a Q product I thought at his peak was better than these guys was Felix Potvin. He played late 80s (defense challenged 80s) and so stats may fool you but he faced alot of shots. Something like 170 games in just 3 seasons and still chocked up a shutout 10 times (6 in his last season). 17 years in NHL. He took St. John's to Calder Cup final his only year in AHL. I think the Quebec goaltending pipeline actually had very little to do with the Q itself. My theory on this has always been that the minor hockey world those goalies grew up in was drastically different. Less competitive. More emphasis on practice and playing vs systems, coaching, and winning. When Fleury showed up here he already had the talent and skill and speed in his game. He refined his game in Cape Breton. But at 15 he was already heading to pro hockey within 4-5 years if he kept his head on straight. That might actually be the biggest part the Q played in some...keeping them on the path to success. Now kids shows up and they've had goaltending coaches since 13. Been on midget teams with varying degrees of success. But for the structure the 15/16yr olds show....thats development the goalies lost in that evolution. Because 15yr olds in midget being coached to win 3-2 hockey games means goalies who used to face 46 shots in a 6-3 game are now having 22 shots in a 3-2 game. Multiply that back to say the age of 11/12 and I think thats why the current generation is so lacking. Of all the differences I see in the sport now...the development of goaltenders might be whats blown me away the most. Goalies used to show up and be more athletic and polished at younger ages it seemed like. Now they're raw and overly technical at those young ages and a lot of them have trouble adjusting to the talent. We are a long way from the goaltending factor of the 90's that is for sure.
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 6, 2021 8:56:03 GMT -4
All over 160 Q games if counting playoffs too. I strongly believe in junior you need to play every night to do this or the lions share of games. Workload helps them develop. Interestingly Luongo had 9 shutouts in junior. Brodeur and Fleury had 4 each. Roy had none. That certainly has alot to do with team in front of them. Another guy who I know was exceptional, played long in NHL and pro and is a Q product I thought at his peak was better than these guys was Felix Potvin. He played late 80s (defense challenged 80s) and so stats may fool you but he faced alot of shots. Something like 170 games in just 3 seasons and still chocked up a shutout 10 times (6 in his last season). 17 years in NHL. He took St. John's to Calder Cup final his only year in AHL. You think Potvin at his peak was better than Roy/Brodeur, who are generally considered 2 of the greatest to play the position? He was a good goalie but his peak wasn’t at those guys level. Just tells you he was a Leafs fan lol So was I...with all the Potvin stuff...but he was only a top goalie for stretches. You cant compare him to the greats of his era like Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour. Potvin wasn't even in the 2nd tier after 95...Joseph, Richter, Kirk MacLean, Tom Barrasso, Olaf Kolzig, Mike Vernon...all better then Potvin in my opinion. We forget how good the goaltending was in that era.
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on May 6, 2021 14:10:11 GMT -4
You think Potvin at his peak was better than Roy/Brodeur, who are generally considered 2 of the greatest to play the position? He was a good goalie but his peak wasn’t at those guys level. Just tells you he was a Leafs fan lol So was I...with all the Potvin stuff...but he was only a top goalie for stretches. You cant compare him to the greats of his era like Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour. Potvin wasn't even in the 2nd tier after 95...Joseph, Richter, Kirk MacLean, Tom Barrasso, Olaf Kolzig, Mike Vernon...all better then Potvin in my opinion. We forget how good the goaltending was in that era. nope never a Leafs fan - sorry - I will let you guess my team. Been the same team since 1981.... Coming out of the Q though Potvin was as stingy as they were at that time 1990?? When most people down here hardly paid attention to CHL. I am not comparing him to those names u listed I am saying coming out of junior I thought he was the most ready. Back to Marc Andre Fleury the masses tend to undervalue what he has done. Now most of those people are driven by stats and they refuse to give him credit. They only look at numbers but goaltendingbis much more. One of the things that makes a goalie move the needle for me is not always the save % etc. Wins are important and yes that is a team exercise but what I like is how some guys tend to make the save when it matters most. Every save is not a big save. Some goals change the course of history and playoffs and teams fortunes more than others. Some saves change momentum and Fleury has a knack of his career of making those saves consistently when his team needed them. (And all those 4 guys mentioned - Roy, Brodeur, Luongo have done that) I still think Fleury's dismal 2012 playoff series vs Philly is all some people remember. The totality of the work though he totally deserves to be in HHOF when done on first try. And I say that as an observer who always has been on opposite sides of Fleury at every level where my teams have faced him.
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 6, 2021 16:19:41 GMT -4
Just tells you he was a Leafs fan lol So was I...with all the Potvin stuff...but he was only a top goalie for stretches. You cant compare him to the greats of his era like Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour. Potvin wasn't even in the 2nd tier after 95...Joseph, Richter, Kirk MacLean, Tom Barrasso, Olaf Kolzig, Mike Vernon...all better then Potvin in my opinion. We forget how good the goaltending was in that era. nope never a Leafs fan - sorry - I will let you guess my team. Been the same team since 1981.... Coming out of the Q though Potvin was as stingy as they were at that time 1990?? When most people down here hardly paid attention to CHL. I am not comparing him to those names u listed I am saying coming out of junior I thought he was the most ready. Back to Marc Andre Fleury the masses tend to undervalue what he has done. Now most of those people are driven by stats and they refuse to give him credit. They only look at numbers but goaltendingbis much more. One of the things that makes a goalie move the needle for me is not always the save % etc. Wins are important and yes that is a team exercise but what I like is how some guys tend to make the save when it matters most. Every save is not a big save. Some goals change the course of history and playoffs and teams fortunes more than others. Some saves change momentum and Fleury has a knack of his career of making those saves consistently when his team needed them. (And all those 4 guys mentioned - Roy, Brodeur, Luongo have done that) I still think Fleury's dismal 2012 playoff series vs Philly is all some people remember. The totality of the work though he totally deserves to be in HHOF when done on first try. And I say that as an observer who always has been on opposite sides of Fleury at every level where my teams have faced him. 500 wins and a Cup in 1st ballot HOF in any era. Add in the Cups as a backup and the reputation as one of the best people and teammates in any sport and there's no doubt he should be in as a 1st ballot Hall of Famer.
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Post by sec19fan on May 13, 2021 4:33:55 GMT -4
LV played their last game of the regular season last night with a 6-0 shut out for Fleury. That was his 6th of the year. He had had an amazing year going 26-10 was 4th in the league with GAA 1.98, 5th with SV% of .928.
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Post by Penguins23® on May 13, 2021 8:03:29 GMT -4
LV played their last game of the regular season last night with a 6-0 shut out for Fleury. That was his 6th of the year. He had had an amazing year going 26-10 was 4th in the league with GAA 1.98, 5th with SV% of .928. He was 3rd in both categories if you remove the goalies that played 10 games or less. He was ahead of Vasilevsky who is the heavy favorite for Vezina.
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Post by sec19fan on May 23, 2021 5:58:32 GMT -4
This guy just continues to amaze! A 35 shots against shut out last night - his 16th in NHL playoffs puts him in a tie for 3rd all time trailing Brodeur (24) & Roy(23). He es also now tied for 3rd overall in All-Time Playoff Games Played with 150 trailing Roy (247) and Brodeur (205).
His stats in the playoffs so far this year are outstanding with GAA of .99 and SA% of .966%. His only loss so far was a 1-0 loss in OT.
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on May 23, 2021 6:49:45 GMT -4
Going back his last 13 games 12 wins with those gawdy stats. That's well back into regular season.
Usually goalies get better as playoffs go on in this case that's not possible. Cant say its a product of team in front of him. My only concern there is any drop back and they lose. The teams get harder and this could be a case of peaking too soon.
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Post by sec19fan on Jun 11, 2021 6:43:17 GMT -4
With the Golden Knights eliminating the Rockies last night - it was Fleury's 89th career win in the playoffs moving him to 4th all time. He trails Patrick Roy (151) Martin Brodeur (113) and Grant Fuhr (92). Quite possible he moves to 3rd overall with a good run against Tampa Bay...
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 11, 2021 7:31:26 GMT -4
With the Golden Knights eliminating the Rockies last night - it was Fleury's 89th career win in the playoffs moving him to 4th all time. He trails Patrick Roy (151) Martin Brodeur (113) and Grant Fuhr (92). Quite possible he moves to 3rd overall with a good run against Tampa Bay... Las Vegas is playing Montreal, not TB.
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Post by jimmy on Jun 11, 2021 8:46:00 GMT -4
Time to feed Fleury to the Montreal media wolves and see if they can rattle him ...
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Post by sec19fan on Jun 12, 2021 4:20:57 GMT -4
With the Golden Knights eliminating the Rockies last night - it was Fleury's 89th career win in the playoffs moving him to 4th all time. He trails Patrick Roy (151) Martin Brodeur (113) and Grant Fuhr (92). Quite possible he moves to 3rd overall with a good run against Tampa Bay... Las Vegas is playing Montreal, not TB. Oops - brain fart
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Jun 12, 2021 11:41:50 GMT -4
Time to feed Fleury to the Montreal media wolves and see if they can rattle him ... There will be additional pressure playing vs home team - intangibles that can sway series. I think the predicted lack of shots may not a good thing for Fleury. Players like him thrive with work. Could see the pace be much slower this series.
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Post by Citris on Jun 12, 2021 21:31:23 GMT -4
Time to feed Fleury to the Montreal media wolves and see if they can rattle him ... Hasn't Fleury played historically very well in Montreal? hopefully that's not a huge problem this round haha...
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