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Post by SteveUL on Feb 8, 2021 9:24:42 GMT -4
It blows my mind that they have Brady the MVP after he throws for a whopping 200 yards and the Defense keeps KC to 9 points...give to to White, or Barrett, or Davis or Suh, or David... As much as Brady has had a great career, the Bucs D won them the SB. They shut down Brees, Rogers and Mahomes on 3 straight weeks...55 combined points...Brady had 700 combined yards. I think they couldn't pick just one guy from those you named ... so they took the easy way out and went with the feel good story.
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Post by themandalorian on Feb 8, 2021 12:25:12 GMT -4
It's not unprecedented that a QB wins the Super Bowl MVP in a game where his D has played amazing. Brady in 2002 only had 145 passing yards and 1 TD, the Pats D won them that game but the MVP goes to 1 player only. Look at Eli Manning in 2008, he had 2 TD in that game and Brady had 3 last night. Eli doesn't get anywhere close to being considered the MVP of that game if the NY Giant D didn't play the game of their lives. Last night Brady was a beast in the first half when he had to be to get the lead and then Tampa Bay played smart on offence running the ball and doing dink and dunk passes, the complete opposite of the Falcons in 2017.
For a member of the D to get MVP you have to get a pick six or cause fumbles that lead to TDs and/or make a lot of tackles. Von Miller, 2 forced fumbles that led directly to TDs, was the last defensive player to win Super Bowl MVP and Cam Newton hasn't been the same since that game.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 8, 2021 12:31:42 GMT -4
It's not unprecedented that a QB wins the Super Bowl MVP in a game where his D has played amazing. Brady in 2002 only had 145 passing yards and 1 TD, the Pats D won them that game but the MVP goes to 1 player only. Look at Eli Manning in 2008, he had 2 TD in that game and Brady had 3 last night. Eli doesn't get anywhere close to being considered the MVP of that game if the NY Giant D didn't play the game of their lives. Last night Brady was a beast in the first half when he had to be to get the lead and then Tampa Bay played smart on offence running the ball and doing dink and dunk passes, the complete opposite of the Falcons in 2017.
For a member of the D to get MVP you have to get a pick six or cause fumbles that lead to TDs and/or make a lot of tackles. Von Miller, 2 forced fumbles that led directly to TDs, was the last defensive player to win Super Bowl MVP and Cam Newton hasn't been the same since that game.
I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying it's a lazy pick to just give it to the winning QB, almost looks like some drunk guy who watches 5 games a year picks it from home. The NFL media loves to overhype the impact of the QB position. Brady has had a great career, but when he was FA he picked a team he could win with, that's why he left NE, whoever picks the MVP should have tried a bit harder and given it to one of their defenders.
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Post by bois on Feb 8, 2021 12:49:43 GMT -4
Coulda gave it to Gronk with his two TD's..... not sure what his total yards were
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Post by themandalorian on Feb 8, 2021 13:13:05 GMT -4
It's not unprecedented that a QB wins the Super Bowl MVP in a game where his D has played amazing. Brady in 2002 only had 145 passing yards and 1 TD, the Pats D won them that game but the MVP goes to 1 player only. Look at Eli Manning in 2008, he had 2 TD in that game and Brady had 3 last night. Eli doesn't get anywhere close to being considered the MVP of that game if the NY Giant D didn't play the game of their lives. Last night Brady was a beast in the first half when he had to be to get the lead and then Tampa Bay played smart on offence running the ball and doing dink and dunk passes, the complete opposite of the Falcons in 2017.
For a member of the D to get MVP you have to get a pick six or cause fumbles that lead to TDs and/or make a lot of tackles. Von Miller, 2 forced fumbles that led directly to TDs, was the last defensive player to win Super Bowl MVP and Cam Newton hasn't been the same since that game.
I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying it's a lazy pick to just give it to the winning QB, almost looks like some drunk guy who watches 5 games a year picks it from home. The NFL media loves to overhype the impact of the QB position. Brady has had a great career, but when he was FA he picked a team he could win with, that's why he left NE, whoever picks the MVP should have tried a bit harder and given it to one of their defenders. The QB is the most important position, that is why NE dominated the AFC East for the last 20 years, they had a HOF QB and the rest of the division had a revolving door at the QB position, the best QBs within the division in the last 20 years or so were Chad Pennington (Jets), Ryan Tannehill (Dolphins) and Marc Sanchez (Jets) and Ryan Fitzpatrick who actually has played for all three of the other teams in the AFC East.
To win in football you have to have 1) a QB , 2) be able to protect your QB and 3) be able to get after the other QB. If you don't have a star QB you have to have a great running game because of your offensive line and a great defence, that is why Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl with Baltimore.
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Post by themandalorian on Feb 8, 2021 13:14:39 GMT -4
Coulda gave it to Gronk with his two TD's..... not sure what his total yards were 6 catches for 67 yards but also a lot of key blocks in the running game which is where a lot of people don't really look at in his career but as a Pats fan I've seen it for a decade.
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Post by jimmy on Feb 8, 2021 13:43:01 GMT -4
Coulda gave it to Gronk with his two TD's..... not sure what his total yards were I thought Leonard Fournette was very good as well ...
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 8, 2021 14:13:07 GMT -4
I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying it's a lazy pick to just give it to the winning QB, almost looks like some drunk guy who watches 5 games a year picks it from home. The NFL media loves to overhype the impact of the QB position. Brady has had a great career, but when he was FA he picked a team he could win with, that's why he left NE, whoever picks the MVP should have tried a bit harder and given it to one of their defenders. The QB is the most important position, that is why NE dominated the AFC East for the last 20 years, they had a HOF QB and the rest of the division had a revolving door at the QB position, the best QBs within the division in the last 20 years or so were Chad Pennington (Jets), Ryan Tannehill (Dolphins) and Marc Sanchez (Jets) and Ryan Fitzpatrick who actually has played for all three of the other teams in the AFC East.
To win in football you have to have 1) a QB , 2) be able to protect your QB and 3) be able to get after the other QB. If you don't have a star QB you have to have a great running game because of your offensive line and a great defence, that is why Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl with Baltimore.
QB is the most important position on the team, but a shitty QB will win more on a powerhouse team than a great QB on a shitty team. Lots of great QB's have not done a lot of winning...Marino has no SB, Rogers only has 1, Favre only has one. Brady won a lot because he is a great QB but having Belichek is just as big, plus being in a shitty division for almost 20 years really helps. The perfect storm.
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Feb 8, 2021 15:21:55 GMT -4
Well let's dig deeper.
Early in the game before Mahomes started limping the fact that Brady sustained some pressure and gave a few looks at KC D really set complexion of the game. His clock management really tipped pressure on Mahomes to respond. Time ticked away all night when Brady had the ball. In the end the fleeting time really condensed KC playbook even more than they began with.
He got under the skin of tired players on KC D that took penalties that helped Tampa. He wasnt on the field for the kicking penalties. But the D he was facing were.
Its impossible to divorce a D from a QB totally.
But the biggest difference in game is Tom didnt hit the turf as many times as Mahomes. He wasnt rushed to make plays and not chased out of the pocket. The D on TB could do that increasingly in the game take chances because of what Tom did early to make sure they were rested for the job.
Mahomes couldnt buy those breaks for his D to get the better of Brady when they were on the field.
Those mistakes that created big yard penalties and 1st downs were possible because Brady can exploit tired defenses.
But Brady also had healthy players around him all game. I'm not sure what he needs to do to claim MVP in peoples minds? Throw 400 yards? Maybe handing off the Fournette and a couple of passes to Gronk is worthy of that award.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 8, 2021 15:46:17 GMT -4
Well let's dig deeper. Early in the game before Mahomes started limping the fact that Brady sustained some pressure and gave a few looks at KC D really set complexion of the game. His clock management really tipped pressure on Mahomes to respond. Time ticked away all night when Brady had the ball. In the end the fleeting time really condensed KC playbook even more than they began with. He got under the skin of tired players on KC D that took penalties that helped Tampa. He wasnt on the field for the kicking penalties. But the D he was facing were. Its impossible to divorce a D from a QB totally. But the biggest difference in game is Tom didnt hit the turf as many times as Mahomes. He wasnt rushed to make plays and not chased out of the pocket. The D on TB could do that increasingly in the game take chances because of what Tom did early to make sure they were rested for the job. Mahomes couldnt buy those breaks for his D to get the better of Brady when they were on the field. Those mistakes that created big yard penalties and 1st downs were possible because Brady can exploit tired defenses. But Brady also had healthy players around him all game. I'm not sure what he needs to do to claim MVP in peoples minds? Throw 400 yards? Maybe handing off the Fournette and a couple of passes to Gronk is worthy of that award. You're attributing stuff to the QB that has nothing to with the QB. KC took a lot of penalties on D, some were dumb, others were getting too "handsy" with the receivers. They also didn't have anywhere near the pass rush that TB had.
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Post by hal on Feb 8, 2021 17:00:26 GMT -4
TB Front Four ...........There's Your Real MVP .
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Feb 8, 2021 17:25:08 GMT -4
Well let's dig deeper. Early in the game before Mahomes started limping the fact that Brady sustained some pressure and gave a few looks at KC D really set complexion of the game. His clock management really tipped pressure on Mahomes to respond. Time ticked away all night when Brady had the ball. In the end the fleeting time really condensed KC playbook even more than they began with. He got under the skin of tired players on KC D that took penalties that helped Tampa. He wasnt on the field for the kicking penalties. But the D he was facing were. Its impossible to divorce a D from a QB totally. But the biggest difference in game is Tom didnt hit the turf as many times as Mahomes. He wasnt rushed to make plays and not chased out of the pocket. The D on TB could do that increasingly in the game take chances because of what Tom did early to make sure they were rested for the job. Mahomes couldnt buy those breaks for his D to get the better of Brady when they were on the field. Those mistakes that created big yard penalties and 1st downs were possible because Brady can exploit tired defenses. But Brady also had healthy players around him all game. I'm not sure what he needs to do to claim MVP in peoples minds? Throw 400 yards? Maybe handing off the Fournette and a couple of passes to Gronk is worthy of that award. You're attributing stuff to the QB that has nothing to with the QB. KC took a lot of penalties on D, some were dumb, others were getting too "handsy" with the receivers. They also didn't have anywhere near the pass rush that TB had. People take dumb penalties when they get fatigued - its that way in every sport. They all know they cant do that. The offense job is to score but also protect their D side from being back on field too soon. It's a balance. And KC defense isnt used to being on the field that long. Usually their ahead and its easier to play from ahead. Their D did repeatedly hold guys that happens but if happens more when you lose a step.
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Post by scotiahockey on Feb 8, 2021 21:44:22 GMT -4
It blows my mind that they have Brady the MVP after he throws for a whopping 200 yards and the Defense keeps KC to 9 points...give to to White, or Barrett, or Davis or Suh, or David... As much as Brady has had a great career, the Bucs D won them the SB. They shut down Brees, Rogers and Mahomes on 3 straight weeks...55 combined points...Brady had 700 combined yards. I mean, he was the MVP of that game... him being so phenomenal in the 1st half allowed the D to pin their ears back and go after the Chiefs in the 2nd half. He didn’t need to do anything spectacular in the 2nd half because he sliced them up and got his team the lead, in typical Brady fashion. Was he at his best all playoffs? Absolutely not, he was last night though and while the D deserves huge credit for making life on Mahomes miserable, part of that was the injury, their huge changes on the o-line and love him or hate him, the spectacular play of TB12 in the 1st half.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 9, 2021 8:35:58 GMT -4
It blows my mind that they have Brady the MVP after he throws for a whopping 200 yards and the Defense keeps KC to 9 points...give to to White, or Barrett, or Davis or Suh, or David... As much as Brady has had a great career, the Bucs D won them the SB. They shut down Brees, Rogers and Mahomes on 3 straight weeks...55 combined points...Brady had 700 combined yards. I mean, he was the MVP of that game... him being so phenomenal in the 1st half allowed the D to pin their ears back and go after the Chiefs in the 2nd half. He didn’t need to do anything spectacular in the 2nd half because he sliced them up and got his team the lead, in typical Brady fashion. Was he at his best all playoffs? Absolutely not, he was last night though and while the D deserves huge credit for making life on Mahomes miserable, part of that was the injury, their huge changes on the o-line and love him or hate him, the spectacular play of TB12 in the 1st half. Again, 11 of those 21 1st half points were on dumb defensive penalties. Fatigue should not be a factor in the 1st half of a game after a bye week. What did Brady do to get Hardman to line up offside on a FG attempt? Ridiculous argument.
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Post by themandalorian on Feb 10, 2021 7:12:21 GMT -4
I mean, he was the MVP of that game... him being so phenomenal in the 1st half allowed the D to pin their ears back and go after the Chiefs in the 2nd half. He didn’t need to do anything spectacular in the 2nd half because he sliced them up and got his team the lead, in typical Brady fashion. Was he at his best all playoffs? Absolutely not, he was last night though and while the D deserves huge credit for making life on Mahomes miserable, part of that was the injury, their huge changes on the o-line and love him or hate him, the spectacular play of TB12 in the 1st half. Again, 11 of those 21 1st half points were on dumb defensive penalties. Fatigue should not be a factor in the 1st half of a game after a bye week. What did Brady do to get Hardman to line up offside on a FG attempt? Ridiculous argument. Fatigue certainly wasn't a factor in the first half, it was being on their heels because of the game plan Tampa and Brady put in. Tampa played KC earlier and knew about how fast the KC D was so they used screens and quick pass plays mixing in the run and KC got caught guessing which led to the defensive holding penalties. KC's D is overrated because they are usually playing with a lead so they can just pass rush because they know teams aren't going to run the ball and they got exposed the other night. Playing D in football is a lot harder when the offence has their full playbook available to them.
KC was missing both their tackles but I really didn't see any adjustments made, there was no doubling on Pierre-Paul who had been a beast in the playoffs. Tampa only blitzed 5 times the whole night and Mahomes was still running around scared for his life.
Brady is the best at diagnosing what the D is doing, I absolutely love watching him before every play, having a guy in motion to determine if the D is playing man or zone, determining who is the mike (middle linebacker) and then changing the play to the second play they've called in the huddle if the D has the right formation to stuff the first play. It's almost like having a supercomputer scanning the D and then running the right play.
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