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Post by MikeC on Feb 24, 2022 19:26:01 GMT -4
Sanctions do nothing and its already ugly. Diplomatic/financial sanctions to a country like Russia simply hurt the Russian people. Putin doesn't need to get elected to keep his titles so he doesn't care about phone calls and bank sanctions and pipelines when he's trying to take over another country using propaganda in his own country all because Ukraine has elected a government wanting more influence from the west and to be included in NATO...for reasons just like this. But since Putin has China on board the other world leaders are going to play their best "you better listen to us mister!" type of quotes while doing everything to avoid putting troops on the ground. I believe I read that only 26% of Americans want to see Biden play a major role in this. Trump's been heard non-stop for the last 24 hours about how smart Putin is. Biden risks political suicide no matter what he does. But if he does nothing he's also playing right into the Trump base who think Putin is a genius and have a clear disregard for democracy as we know all too well after Jan 6 2021. Right now the world needs someone to be a leader in this illegal occupation and to take Putin on with a military and to obliterate Russian interests or else risk this happening to every single former Soviet country over the next 100 years.
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Post by Jacques Strap on Feb 24, 2022 19:41:06 GMT -4
137 Ukrainian Soldiers killed so far per Ukrainian Government.
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Post by coleminer on Feb 24, 2022 22:39:37 GMT -4
Right now the world needs someone to be a leader in this illegal occupation and to take Putin on with a military and to obliterate Russian interests or else risk this happening to every single former Soviet country over the next 100 years. Doesn't Russia have nukes? If so, probably not a smart idea. The entire thing is awful. Hopefully he croaks soon.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 25, 2022 8:40:57 GMT -4
There is apparently a lot of opposition to Putin in his own government, would be nice if they knocked him off and ended the war...but unlikely.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2022 10:52:46 GMT -4
It's kind of upsetting this morning to see China come out and blame the US for the Russian invasion by "fanning up the flames of war."
I know that we shouldn't judge a book by its cover - but it was also a bit unsettling to watch Biden's address to the media yesterday on CNN where he seemed more interested in rambling on about gas prices and cyberattacks rather than the issue at hand - which he wrapped up in a bow with the "Putin is the aggressor" comment.
I don't want to be ignorant - but Biden stood there - eyes half-shut - looking like two pissholes in a snowbank - and very unemotional as he struggled to read from the cue cards. He doesn't exactly instill confidence or ease fears.
I'm going to throw it out there that I think we'll see a new president before long - probably Harris - and at what could arguably turn into the most volatile time since the turn of the century - if it isn't already.
I don't want to fear monger - and this isn't the proper place for it - but if some country like China threatens to unleash another deadly virus at some point - I don't have a lot of confidence in the Biden - Trudeau - Boris Johnson type of leadership.
I'm not smart enough to participate in the discussion below the surface - but we all have questions at the street level. I don't have a good feeling about this. Russia has been bombing the Ukraine - but nobody's even mentioning the Russian forces presence in Belarus.
Meanwhile - as tensions get higher - you'd have to guess that it's just about time for Trudeau to head for the family cottage until things calm down a bit.
I'm limited to talking at the average guy on the street level - but this seems to be escalating fast with no real leadership from the West. Russia and China together are scary.
As usual - my opinion will be full of holes - but talking about how we got here isn't important. What's important is where we go from here. IMO - war isn't the answer - but neither is putting your tail between your legs and talking tough about sanctions.
They've probably been building up reserves and pipelines to necessities for months in Russia preparing for this - while our leadership counted Covid numbers and prepared for trucker convoys and protests and putting the emergency measures act in place.
Nope - I don't have a good feeling. There's a lot more to this than we're being told. Why did they seem to target Chernobyl as a priority? They're up to something. . .
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Post by hal on Feb 26, 2022 7:29:28 GMT -4
Alexander Ovechkin is taking some heat from his Press Conference . Saying he wants Peace wasn't enough . When asked if he opposed Putin , his reply was ...."He is my President" . He was right about one thing though , he is an Athlete not a Politician . However the Russian Reporter said as arguably the Most Popular Athlete in Russia he had an opportunity to make an impact . He would never change Putin's mind but if he came out against him and the war then the Fans who adore him might embrace his view . Now in his Defence , he has His Family over there and we all know how that would impact anything we say or do , The Reporter made it clear that Ovechkin lives like Royalty when he is Home and that he and his Family are also not included when it comes to any kind of Government Restrictions that are ever placed on the other 99% . Horrible Spot to be in , any way you look at it .
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Feb 26, 2022 7:39:05 GMT -4
Some info that explains why sanctions won't work and may hurt the west more than help.
Ukraine/Russia combined produce 32% of world's wheat. In fact farm land in Ukraine is more fertile than anything in US/Canada. Great yield.
Russia still trades with China & India. The population combined is huge. And China is manufacturing so much for the west.
Taking Russian oil off the market for export to West will drive the OPEC prices up. And Canada still can't get our oil to market or even very quickly from east to west.
Ukraine/Russia control something like 80& of worlds lithium mines. Probably over 90% when China is added in. So when we have computer and smart car shortages already these run on lithium batteries. The tech sector needs that.
Russian people are among the poorest in the world. Like many don't make 10K (USD) per year. They are used to doing without things there. They have to be frugal...most of people.
Compare that to avg household incomes in the west where you can't live on less than 40K a household woukd be considered poor and costs keep rising. It will only rise more.
The sanction pressure is supposed to fall on the Russian elite but over time it's hard to get the people to turn against them because Russians are used to low availability of things.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2022 8:41:27 GMT -4
I was reading somewhere on facebook this morning a hypothetical situation presented in the following manner (not my idea - but a good thought provoking scenario):
Quebec declares itself a separate country with its own government. Canada protests but can't really do anything about it other than threatening sanctions against its own people.
The US recognizes Quebec as its own country and signs a peace treaty and trade agreement with them.
A few years later - the US moves a military presence into the states of Vermont and New York and invades Quebec giving them access to and control of Quebec's vast fresh water supplies, hydroelectric infrastructure and transportation network for the rest of Canada.
England, France, Japan and Canada all express outrage and tell the US - "no soup for you."
The US snickers and smugly replies - "your soup sucks anyway - and we'll be opening 10 new soup factories in Quebec by the spring. . ."
I don't know if it puts things into perspective - but it does make it a bit easier for the simple guy on the street like myself to understand a bit better what's going on.
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Feb 26, 2022 8:53:49 GMT -4
I was reading somewhere on facebook this morning a hypothetical situation presented in the following manner (not my idea - but a good thought provoking scenario): Quebec declares itself a separate country with its own government. Canada protests but can't really do anything about it other than threatening sanctions against its own people. The US recognizes Quebec as its own country and signs a peace treaty and trade agreement with them. A few years later - the US moves a military presence into the states of Vermont and New York and invades Quebec giving them access to and control of Quebec's vast fresh water supplies, hydroelectric infrastructure and transportation network for the rest of Canada. England, France, Japan and Canada all express outrage and tell the US - "no soup for you." I don't know if it puts things into perspective - but it does make it a bit easier for the guy on the street like myself to understand a bit better what's going on. All makes sense but even more if change the word "Quebec" to "Alberta" and "Vermont" to "Montana". That could actually happen. You also have the real fact that the disputed regions of eastern Ukraine has always had pro-Russia sympathizers. Large Russian population. The "excuse" for wanting to reunite these areas into Russia is that there is a huge population of Russians there. Even in a separate Quebec or Alberta there will always be loyalists caught on the wrong side. Scary thing is many in the world would line up against Canada trying to reunite them. Putin is obviously evil. He has always exploited the situation of ethnic and cultural differences to push return of the USSR. That end will trounce everyone's right to cultural autonomy.
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Post by Jacques Strap on Feb 26, 2022 10:21:55 GMT -4
I was reading somewhere on facebook this morning a hypothetical situation presented in the following manner (not my idea - but a good thought provoking scenario): Quebec declares itself a separate country with its own government. Canada protests but can't really do anything about it other than threatening sanctions against its own people. The US recognizes Quebec as its own country and signs a peace treaty and trade agreement with them. A few years later - the US moves a military presence into the states of Vermont and New York and invades Quebec giving them access to and control of Quebec's vast fresh water supplies, hydroelectric infrastructure and transportation network for the rest of Canada. England, France, Japan and Canada all express outrage and tell the US - "no soup for you." The US snickers and smugly replies - "your soup sucks anyway - and we'll be opening 10 new soup factories in Quebec by the spring. . ." I don't know if it puts things into perspective - but it does make it a bit easier for the simple guy on the street like myself to understand a bit better what's going on. Interesting situation but I think something more similar would be Quebec separating and then years later Canada invades Quebec and wants to take it over and install an English Government. What do u think?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2022 13:56:17 GMT -4
I was reading somewhere on facebook this morning a hypothetical situation presented in the following manner (not my idea - but a good thought provoking scenario): Quebec declares itself a separate country with its own government. Canada protests but can't really do anything about it other than threatening sanctions against its own people. The US recognizes Quebec as its own country and signs a peace treaty and trade agreement with them. A few years later - the US moves a military presence into the states of Vermont and New York and invades Quebec giving them access to and control of Quebec's vast fresh water supplies, hydroelectric infrastructure and transportation network for the rest of Canada. England, France, Japan and Canada all express outrage and tell the US - "no soup for you." The US snickers and smugly replies - "your soup sucks anyway - and we'll be opening 10 new soup factories in Quebec by the spring. . ." I don't know if it puts things into perspective - but it does make it a bit easier for the simple guy on the street like myself to understand a bit better what's going on. Interesting situation but I think something more similar would be Quebec separating and then years later Canada invades Quebec and wants to take it over and install an English Government. What do u think? Yes - that's probably closer to what was meant in the info I came across. I was going by memory and likely fudged the thought in the process.
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Post by cb67 on Feb 26, 2022 14:07:03 GMT -4
Unfortunately the sanctions at the moment aren’t stopping the war crimes going on in Ukraine.
“Only targeting military bases.” Driving tanks down the road crushing civilian cars. Luckily this old lady survived.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2022 14:27:45 GMT -4
Unfortunately the sanctions at the moment aren’t stopping the war crimes going on in Ukraine. “Only targeting military bases.” Driving tanks down the road crushing civilian cars. Luckily this old lady survived. If that's real - maybe somebody should send it to Ovi for a look. . .
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Post by Jacques Strap on Feb 26, 2022 18:04:40 GMT -4
Unfortunately the sanctions at the moment aren’t stopping the war crimes going on in Ukraine. “Only targeting military bases.” Driving tanks down the road crushing civilian cars. Luckily this old lady survived. It was an old man in the car. They showed people trying to get him out. Hi lived but I am not sure how, the car was like a pancake.
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Post by looneytunes on Feb 27, 2022 21:42:46 GMT -4
This is awful for the Ukrainian people and for the west. Now, as western support mounts the man is trying to remind the world he has nuclear weapons. NATO will not get involved directly for this very reason, but I understand why people want to. It is uncomfortable to say the least watching the Russian bear poking its teeth at the border of Kiev to remove a democratically elected government.
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