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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 11:06:33 GMT -4
There's a lot of smart people here.
Are sanctions going to be enough - or could this get really ugly in a hurry?
I mean - you can't have one country just waltzing in and taking over another country at whim - no matter what the circumstances. . .
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 24, 2022 11:29:33 GMT -4
There's a lot of smart people here. Are sanctions going to be enough - or could this get really ugly in a hurry? I mean - you can't have one country just waltzing in and taking over another country at whim - no matter what the circumstances. . . The best and fastest way to get to Putin is to freeze his and the oligarchs assets in the west. The economic sanctions will surely help, Russia's market dropped by 40% this morning...their economy is basically oil with a bit of grain products. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 24, 2022 11:32:27 GMT -4
Sanctions do nothing and its already ugly.
Diplomatic/financial sanctions to a country like Russia simply hurt the Russian people. Putin doesn't need to get elected to keep his titles so he doesn't care about phone calls and bank sanctions and pipelines when he's trying to take over another country using propaganda in his own country all because Ukraine has elected a government wanting more influence from the west and to be included in NATO...for reasons just like this.
But since Putin has China on board the other world leaders are going to play their best "you better listen to us mister!" type of quotes while doing everything to avoid putting troops on the ground.
I believe I read that only 26% of Americans want to see Biden play a major role in this.
Trump's been heard non-stop for the last 24 hours about how smart Putin is.
Biden risks political suicide no matter what he does. But if he does nothing he's also playing right into the Trump base who think Putin is a genius and have a clear disregard for democracy as we know all too well after Jan 6 2021.
Right now the world needs someone to be a leader in this illegal occupation and to take Putin on with a military and to obliterate Russian interests or else risk this happening to every single former Soviet country over the next 100 years.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 24, 2022 11:36:37 GMT -4
There's a lot of smart people here. Are sanctions going to be enough - or could this get really ugly in a hurry? I mean - you can't have one country just waltzing in and taking over another country at whim - no matter what the circumstances. . . The best and fastest way to get to Putin is to freeze his and the oligarchs assets in the west. The economic sanctions will surely help, Russia's market dropped by 40% this morning...their economy is basically oil with a bit of grain products. Hurts the people. Doesn't stop Putin. Freezing assets only goes so far when you have a country without a true democracy who can't simply wait for the next election to elect someone new. You need to attack them harshly and quickly. This didn't just happen overnight....its been know for a good 5-6 months that this was coming and there's hundreds of people dead in the Ukraine while we're watching it on CNN. The entire world should feel ashamed at the lack of preparation NATO especially has shown around this. They basically wrote the script 4 months ago and we all read it and now we're watching it vs our leaders using the heads up to get ahead of it. I can't help but feel there needs to be more done immediately or else the US might as well go back to talking about what Kardashian is dating what NBA player on their news and the rest of us can stop treating the US like the world leader we're told they are. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 24, 2022 11:56:25 GMT -4
The best and fastest way to get to Putin is to freeze his and the oligarchs assets in the west. The economic sanctions will surely help, Russia's market dropped by 40% this morning...their economy is basically oil with a bit of grain products. Hurts the people. Doesn't stop Putin. Freezing assets only goes so far when you have a country without a true democracy who can't simply wait for the next election to elect someone new. You need to attack them harshly and quickly. This didn't just happen overnight....its been know for a good 5-6 months that this was coming and there's hundreds of people dead in the Ukraine while we're watching it on CNN. The entire world should feel ashamed at the lack of preparation NATO especially has shown around this. They basically wrote the script 4 months ago and we all read it and now we're watching it vs our leaders using the heads up to get ahead of it. I can't help but feel there needs to be more done immediately or else the US might as well go back to talking about what Kardashian is dating what NBA player on their news and the rest of us can stop treating the US like the world leader we're told they are. Putin's power comes from the oligarchs who keep him in power. Those people have most of their money/assets in Western countries. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 24, 2022 12:46:16 GMT -4
Hurts the people. Doesn't stop Putin. Freezing assets only goes so far when you have a country without a true democracy who can't simply wait for the next election to elect someone new. You need to attack them harshly and quickly. This didn't just happen overnight....its been know for a good 5-6 months that this was coming and there's hundreds of people dead in the Ukraine while we're watching it on CNN. The entire world should feel ashamed at the lack of preparation NATO especially has shown around this. They basically wrote the script 4 months ago and we all read it and now we're watching it vs our leaders using the heads up to get ahead of it. I can't help but feel there needs to be more done immediately or else the US might as well go back to talking about what Kardashian is dating what NBA player on their news and the rest of us can stop treating the US like the world leader we're told they are. Putin's power comes from the oligarchs who keep him in power. Those people have most of their money/assets in Western countries. So you think we freeze the money of 12 oil tycoons in Russia and suddenly Russia is a democracy and Putin apologizes and puts himself on trial as a war criminal? I just don't see how anything the West does to Russian money stops this invasion and think its extremely naive to think it makes any impact to the dictator who has historically done his own thing. This is all just an extension of the cold war. NATO's presence and Ukraine's willingness to be included is whats driving this and freezing money doesnt stop it. Immediate and harsh military action against Russia is the only way you stop them from taking over Ukraine. Hell last night this was a mission in "Eastern Ukraine" according to Putin and within minutes there were explosions in every single major city. Diplomacy doesnt work with Putin. Never has. Freezing assets wont either no matter how "harsh" we're told the sanctions are by Western leaders. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 24, 2022 13:04:38 GMT -4
Russia's stock market was down 40% today. Was down 45% at the peak. Basically one of the largest single day meltdowns in its history.
But I don't hear of any ceasefire...
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 24, 2022 13:27:49 GMT -4
US, US, and Canada all announcing different sanctions to freeze money, stop Russian companies from raising funding, etc.
There were 150,000 Russian troops on that border for weeks.
Where were the sanctions while all this planning was happening and it was clear was the plan was?
Imagine if the US had 1,000,000 troops at our border for months and when they storm across to seize our major cities the UK's response is to try to penalize Tesla and Apple in response.
The world is standing by while murder is happening live on our news stations.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 24, 2022 14:19:15 GMT -4
Putin's power comes from the oligarchs who keep him in power. Those people have most of their money/assets in Western countries. So you think we freeze the money of 12 oil tycoons in Russia and suddenly Russia is a democracy and Putin apologizes and puts himself on trial as a war criminal? I just don't see how anything the West does to Russian money stops this invasion and think its extremely naive to think it makes any impact to the dictator who has historically done his own thing. This is all just an extension of the cold war. NATO's presence and Ukraine's willingness to be included is whats driving this and freezing money doesnt stop it. Immediate and harsh military action against Russia is the only way you stop them from taking over Ukraine. Hell last night this was a mission in "Eastern Ukraine" according to Putin and within minutes there were explosions in every single major city. Diplomacy doesnt work with Putin. Never has. Freezing assets wont either no matter how "harsh" we're told the sanctions are by Western leaders. I don't think it would make Russia a democracy but it would get them out of Ukraine. Europe has been hesitant to do it because they use Russian oil, that's the other part of it, countries like Germany would have to get oil elsewhere at a higher cost. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 24, 2022 14:32:12 GMT -4
So you think we freeze the money of 12 oil tycoons in Russia and suddenly Russia is a democracy and Putin apologizes and puts himself on trial as a war criminal? I just don't see how anything the West does to Russian money stops this invasion and think its extremely naive to think it makes any impact to the dictator who has historically done his own thing. This is all just an extension of the cold war. NATO's presence and Ukraine's willingness to be included is whats driving this and freezing money doesnt stop it. Immediate and harsh military action against Russia is the only way you stop them from taking over Ukraine. Hell last night this was a mission in "Eastern Ukraine" according to Putin and within minutes there were explosions in every single major city. Diplomacy doesnt work with Putin. Never has. Freezing assets wont either no matter how "harsh" we're told the sanctions are by Western leaders. I don't think it would make Russia a democracy but it would get them out of Ukraine. Europe has been hesitant to do it because they use Russian oil, that's the other part of it, countries like Germany would have to get oil elsewhere at a higher cost. I hope you're right. There's going to be a lot of sanctions cutting money off. But I think by the time Putin does any retreating he'll have replaced the government. He's probably only days or weeks from that now. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 24, 2022 14:44:00 GMT -4
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 24, 2022 15:04:47 GMT -4
Now this is people fighting for freedom. And for those on the very right...yes after 22 days i'd also expect them to have gone home  |
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Post by Citris on Feb 24, 2022 15:18:59 GMT -4
Yesterday was a day...
Possible start of World War 3 after learning about what Greg Abbot is doing in Texas. Absolutely nightmarish day
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 24, 2022 15:29:53 GMT -4
Yesterday was a day... Possible start of World War 3 after learning about what Greg Abbot is doing in Texas. Absolutely nightmarish day All the items that these people control politically. The services delivered. Always complaints of whats not done right. Critiques on how to do things better. But THAT is where some of these vile people that get elected take the conversation. Not to education, but to banning things they're uncomfortable discussing. Not to health care, but to ban it for "trans" children. Not to help your common man, but to report you if your children identify with another gender. Its hard to watch. Harder to watch people who fought harder against covid mandates to allow it to be normal. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 24, 2022 16:48:42 GMT -4
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