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Post by sc74 on Aug 29, 2022 10:49:52 GMT -4
I don't know for sure, that's only speculation. But yes, that's a risky move. That kind of deal gets done all the time in advance. The difference is that it's known publicly. I understood what Lalancette meant when he said the deal would have come out soon enough. Val-d'Or giving up its 2024 1st pick for Fernandez makes no sense at all so we would have known anyway there was more to come. The difference of it being known publicly is a pretty big difference. And everything the league tells us they're 100% against...at least when it comes to how the Maritime teams are supposed to do business...they seem to always have no issues with when its certain teams breaking those rules. It's a bad look on the league to me and even less reason to support it as a fan. I don't understand which rule was broken here?
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Post by Jack Bauer on Aug 29, 2022 12:31:44 GMT -4
The difference of it being known publicly is a pretty big difference. And everything the league tells us they're 100% against...at least when it comes to how the Maritime teams are supposed to do business...they seem to always have no issues with when its certain teams breaking those rules. It's a bad look on the league to me and even less reason to support it as a fan. I don't understand which rule was broken here? The teams clearly told the players and leaked the details. Thats the issue here. The league is constantly telling teams to not do this stuff and certain GM's just get away with whatever they want. It just makes the entire league look very unprofessional to have stuff like this leak and know for months that a player has zero reason to want his current team to have success. Its not like an obvious future deal has been unearthed after Xmas and we know where someone will play next season. We rarely have deals leak in August for the December trade period and its an awful thing to start to allow and just further plays into how this is a 12 team league in a decade if the league does nothing to clean that stuff up.
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Post by sc74 on Aug 29, 2022 13:22:36 GMT -4
I fail to see how telling Fernandez about a trade that's going to happen in a few days is breaking a rule. Lalancette's story came out 2 days before the trade. The first part of the trade with Fernandez and the 2024 1st pick makes no sense for Val-d'Or fans.
I also understand the decision from Val-d'Or to tell Robidas about it. He's in his 4th season with them and their captain. They're in the beginning of a rebuild, of course he knows he will probably go. The rumour is that he asked for a trade to a contender. I think it's just showing the player the respect he deserves by telling him. Expecting him to change the way he plays because of that is underestimating him and the fact that he's looking for a NHL contrat.
When players, agents, families, friends and teams know about a trade, it's hard to prevent a leak in the media.
It's funny how here there are posters whinning about the league being pro-Quebec teams and on the french board the whinning is about the league being pro big markets like Saint John, Halifax and Moncton. We knew months in advance that Dobson would be involved in the Chicoutimi-Bathurst 10,000 players deals.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Aug 29, 2022 13:36:47 GMT -4
I fail to see how telling Fernandez about a trade that's going to happen in a few days is breaking a rule. Lalancette's story came out 2 days before the trade. The first part of the trade with Fernandez and the 2024 1st pick makes no sense for Val-d'Or fans. I also understand the decision from Val-d'Or to tell Robidas about it. He's in his 4th season with them and their captain. They're in the beginning of a rebuild, of course he knows he will probably go. The rumour is that he asked for a trade to a contender. I think it's just showing the player the respect he deserves by telling him. Expecting him to change the way he plays because of that is underestimating him and the fact that he's looking for a NHL contrat. When players, agents, families, friends and teams know about a trade, it's hard to prevent a leak in the media. It's funny how here there are posters whinning about the league being pro-Quebec teams and on the french board the whinning is about the league being pro big markets like Saint John, Halifax and Moncton. We knew months in advance that Dobson would be involved in the Chicoutimi-Bathurst 10,000 players deals. Ask yourself why the league allows trades like that if they make so little sense to fans that a future trade at mid-season must be leaked in order for those fans to make sense of it. Now view it was the situation that this is all over a couple hundreds potential ticket buyers in 1 market. Can every GM just say "screw the rules, i'm announcing my Xmas deals as they happen in Oct and Nov so I can leak to my fans whats happening so they're keep buying tickets. If this is all justifiable because the leagues smallest market needs a reason to buy tickets to a team in a small rink in an area where there's nothing else to do....imagine how justifiable it should be for Halifax or Moncton to keep their fans informed. The issue here is very clear and easy to stop. The league enjoys the antics and the belief that someone in Val d'Or may actually be persuaded to buy tickets in 7 months time for 2 rebuilding team playoff games but is that really the reality here? I think you're talking about pissing all over the actual product and its integrity all because the leagues smallest market wants to both make the playoffs and get full value out of a player they've already agreed to trade. The Dobson deal wasn't leaked in August. It wasn't leaked at all like this trade. This is starting to be new territory for how far the league is letting teams go in terms of making deals this far ahead of time. To leak the deal like they did was bush league considering the season is a month from starting and we already know where the big trade target is going.
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Post by sc74 on Aug 29, 2022 14:00:18 GMT -4
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Post by Jack Bauer on Aug 29, 2022 14:29:30 GMT -4
I dont have an issue with a 3 team deal. I have an issue with certain teams running their teams through the media and the league allowing it. It hurts the overall credibility in my opinion a small bit of enforcement of any standard will at least create one that can be used moving forward. I dont like that one either in terms of the early leaking. No problem with the end result of a big 3 team deal. I think there's lots of news to discuss in the media to keep people interested vs exposing some of the flaws in the trading process. But we will agree to disagree on this one.
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Post by sc74 on Aug 29, 2022 15:19:13 GMT -4
Ideally, the trade wouldn't have leaked but I understand why it's impossible now to expect it to be kept secret for months. The rumour about Robidas to the Remparts has been going on since before the Christmas trade period last year. That's why I prefer to see teams being honest with their players and telling them the truth before they learn about it through rumours on the Web or in the media. Once they tell their players, it's almost impossible not to expect it to leak in the media because of the amount of people involved.
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Aug 29, 2022 17:31:35 GMT -4
I think some media may not be as quick to put out rumours in thd wake of the Desnoyers trade that never happened.
Some elite hockey insiders (Jeff Marek) got burned that time. And so the sources that assured them it was a sure thing have taken a hit. They can recover but if it happens again nobody will trust enough the sureness what they say.
We really deal in probable/likely trades.
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Post by sc74 on Aug 29, 2022 18:04:14 GMT -4
I think some media may not be as quick to put out rumours in thd wake of the Desnoyers trade that never happened. Some elite hockey insiders (Jeff Marek) got burned that time. And so the sources that assured them it was a sure thing have taken a hit. They can recover but if it happens again nobody will trust enough the sureness what they say. We really deal in probable/likely trades. Maybe that's why Roy made sure the Foreurs GM gave a lottery pick (2024 1st) for Fernandez. That’s like an insurance because Fernandez isn’t worth that pick as of now and if the GM wants his pick back the deal will have to go through at Christmas.
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Post by countryboy on Aug 31, 2022 14:18:14 GMT -4
You can find much to complain about with the Robidas deal.
But each league has their problems. Look at this OHL deal, where they aren’t allowed to deal first round picks. Imagine dealing a 16 y/o 4th overall pick and not being able to get a first back.
Sure, Niagara should have done their due diligence to see if he would report, but if they eventually decided on BPA and now all they have to show is a bunch of picks (none will be high), that is a tough sell to the fans:
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Post by sc74 on Aug 31, 2022 14:43:39 GMT -4
You can find much to complain about with the Robidas deal. But each league has their problems. Look at this OHL deal, where they aren’t allowed to deal first round picks. Imagine dealing a 16 y/o 4th overall pick and not being able to get a first back. Sure, Niagara should have done their due diligence to see if he would report, but if they eventually decided on BPA and now all they have to show is a bunch of picks (none will be high), that is a tough sell to the fans: As in the QMJHL, Niagara could have had a compensatory 1st pick next year but I guess they preferred a bunch of 2nd and 3rd round picks. There's nothing to complain about with the Robidas deal. Lalancette is a journalist and he did his job, that's all. Robidas isn't the first nor the last player to learn about his future trade. Like I said, the only difference is that it's known publicly.
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Post by blueeagle on Sept 1, 2022 8:46:16 GMT -4
I've seen people saying that they still get their comp pick even though he was dealt within the league, but that is not how I understand that works. Can anyone clear that up? Is it different in the OHL?
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Post by scotiahockey on Sept 1, 2022 9:34:16 GMT -4
I've seen people saying that they still get their comp pick even though he was dealt within the league, but that is not how I understand that works. Can anyone clear that up? Is it different in the OHL? They get the comp pick, he’s a defective player. All 3 leagues have different rules.
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Post by rbchimp on Sept 2, 2022 13:52:50 GMT -4
I've seen people saying that they still get their comp pick even though he was dealt within the league, but that is not how I understand that works. Can anyone clear that up? Is it different in the OHL? They get the comp pick, he’s a defective player. All 3 leagues have different rules. Yeah, reading the thread here -> forums.hfboards.com/threads/niagara-icedogs-2022-23-season-thread.2897216/Seems like a loophole, you can trade a guy and get a free first + 2nd the next season (fot top 4? pick) Every team could trade their first rounder and get another first rounder the next season.
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Post by sc74 on Sept 20, 2022 21:55:36 GMT -4
Roy says it's probably his last season as a head coach for the Remparts. He could stay as a GM next season though.
We could see Simon Gagné taking over as head coach and Roy staying as GM to help him with the transition.
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