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Post by Kingrat on Jul 22, 2022 18:20:36 GMT -4
With most of the more valuable free agents moved there are still a lot of holes to fill
(1) Goaltending ... looks worse than last season
(2) Defense ... one year older and still not tough enough
(3) Forwards ... still the strength but could use a player like Tkachuk
AND NOW do we have to worry about Mathews resigning or moving to a U.S. team like Phoenix
Dubas + Keefe + Shanahan good luck
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 22, 2022 18:58:47 GMT -4
Free agents were never going to be signing in Toronto without core pieces leaving and no core piece that can be moved was going to be replaced by any of this years free agents.
Is goaltending worse? On paper the #1 job is. Is the backup worse? Is the overall tandem all that worse then it was in the 33 games Campbell didn't play in? Mrazek went 12-6 with just awful numbers.
Is the D being older worse? Reilly is locked up. Brodie gets no credit as a solid top 4. Muzzin if healthy is a perfect 2nd pairing guy. Gio makes the league minimum. Sandin and Liljegren are still developing. Its probably the deepest the Leafs D has ever been in my time as a fan. The best they had before this might have been when it was McCabe, Kaberle, Kubina and then a huge drop off on a non playoff team. I think this is a case of it being taken for granted how well a healthy unit has played and there's still room for growth with the 2 young guys.
There's no getting a Tkachuk. You can trade Marner and sign a Kadri I guess but you're not getting Tkachuk. Not every available player is available to every team.
And no...you don't need to worry about Matthews playing in Phoenix. Do you need to worry about him playing in LA? Vegas? New York? Chicago? Maybe. But there was no issue signing his 2nd deal out of his ELC. All indications are they're preparing to back up a truck of money and sign him to the biggest deal in NHL history in a years time. But when you have a 60+ goal scoring MVP under contract you shouldn't worry about him going anywhere and you should just enjoy the hell out of it.
Why would a guy who clearly loves spotlight and performing in it leave the leagues biggest spotlight? Matthews doesn't come across as a guy wanting it easier or wanting to be more anonymous. He wants to be a brand...wants to leave a legacy.
Brady Tkachuk didn't run home. He chose to stay in Ottawa. 2 Americans leaving Calgary doesn't mean every American wants out of Canada.
I mean anyone could want a change after 8 years and maybe Matthews does prefer the bigger US market. But after hearing all the wise cracks for a lifetime and people making the comments on how Toronto never had a major NHL trophy winner in like 50+ years I'm going to enjoy the ones we have.
People act like this was an 89 point team that got dominated in round 1 and is a joke. 115 points and took the 2 time defending champs to their limits with the NHL MVP. 2 NHL 1st team all stars. Yet zero positivity. Zero hope. That attitude among the fan base will drive people away more than anything else. Its expected in the awful attention craving media. But there's this underlying cynicism in the fan base that makes me wonder why some even bother following the team if they can't enjoy what they have after so many years of being completely irrelevant in the middle of the league and refusing to bottom out and being in no position to ever try and win.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jul 23, 2022 16:53:00 GMT -4
Free agents were never going to be signing in Toronto without core pieces leaving and no core piece that can be moved was going to be replaced by any of this years free agents. Is goaltending worse? On paper the #1 job is. Is the backup worse? Is the overall tandem all that worse then it was in the 33 games Campbell didn't play in? Mrazek went 12-6 with just awful numbers. Is the D being older worse? Reilly is locked up. Brodie gets no credit as a solid top 4. Muzzin if healthy is a perfect 2nd pairing guy. Gio makes the league minimum. Sandin and Liljegren are still developing. Its probably the deepest the Leafs D has ever been in my time as a fan. The best they had before this might have been when it was McCabe, Kaberle, Kubina and then a huge drop off on a non playoff team. I think this is a case of it being taken for granted how well a healthy unit has played and there's still room for growth with the 2 young guys. There's no getting a Tkachuk. You can trade Marner and sign a Kadri I guess but you're not getting Tkachuk. Not every available player is available to every team. And no...you don't need to worry about Matthews playing in Phoenix. Do you need to worry about him playing in LA? Vegas? New York? Chicago? Maybe. But there was no issue signing his 2nd deal out of his ELC. All indications are they're preparing to back up a truck of money and sign him to the biggest deal in NHL history in a years time. But when you have a 60+ goal scoring MVP under contract you shouldn't worry about him going anywhere and you should just enjoy the hell out of it. Why would a guy who clearly loves spotlight and performing in it leave the leagues biggest spotlight? Matthews doesn't come across as a guy wanting it easier or wanting to be more anonymous. He wants to be a brand...wants to leave a legacy. Brady Tkachuk didn't run home. He chose to stay in Ottawa. 2 Americans leaving Calgary doesn't mean every American wants out of Canada. I mean anyone could want a change after 8 years and maybe Matthews does prefer the bigger US market. But after hearing all the wise cracks for a lifetime and people making the comments on how Toronto never had a major NHL trophy winner in like 50+ years I'm going to enjoy the ones we have. People act like this was an 89 point team that got dominated in round 1 and is a joke. 115 points and took the 2 time defending champs to their limits with the NHL MVP. 2 NHL 1st team all stars. Yet zero positivity. Zero hope. That attitude among the fan base will drive people away more than anything else. Its expected in the awful attention craving media. But there's this underlying cynicism in the fan base that makes me wonder why some even bother following the team if they can't enjoy what they have after so many years of being completely irrelevant in the middle of the league and refusing to bottom out and being in no position to ever try and win. If Toronto's front office is smart, I'm sure they have an ongoing conversation about his long term future. If you can't get him signed by next summer, then you have to make a move. |
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Post by Kingrat on Jul 24, 2022 18:53:51 GMT -4
good points Jack and yes our D last season was relatively good
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Post by Citris on Jul 24, 2022 22:58:58 GMT -4
Toronto's biggest question marks for me are forward depth and goaltending (obviously)
They're losing guys who preformed very well in their roles last year, Ondrej Kase, Ilya Mikheyev, they're likely to lose Alex Kerfoot too due to their current cap situation...
Can they find guys to play good minutes in the bottom 6? Who's playing with Tavares and Nylander? It's going to be very interesting to see how this team looks opening night.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 25, 2022 9:27:37 GMT -4
If Toronto's front office is smart, I'm sure they have an ongoing conversation about his long term future. If you can't get him signed by next summer, then you have to make a move. If they are smart they know their player and handle his situation properly. That could mean making him a huge offer next July and waiting him out. We're not talking about a developing player here....it's the MVP of the league. You may not just walk away from that if he doesnt want to immediately sign. Unless you're pulling a Tkachuk style sign and trade next summer and getting a return thats so large you can't turn it down you end up going after rental return for an MVP. Roster player, good prospect, maybe 2 1st rounders that are like 25th overall. Is that worth giving up on a contending season for? If it was the other way around would you pay that for a season of Matthews as Toronto? That starts to be the question you need to ask. Maybe like Stamkos he walks right up to that free agency line and decides 8 years in Toronto at a huge figure is better than 7 years in a new market. The only way making a move makes sense is if you're getting way too much back in return. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 25, 2022 9:29:16 GMT -4
Toronto's biggest question marks for me are forward depth and goaltending (obviously) They're losing guys who preformed very well in their roles last year, Ondrej Kase, Ilya Mikheyev, they're likely to lose Alex Kerfoot too due to their current cap situation... Can they find guys to play good minutes in the bottom 6? Who's playing with Tavares and Nylander? It's going to be very interesting to see how this team looks opening night. I think the bottom 6 is harder to play against but has less offense to contribute. Aube-Kubel and Jarnkrok are pains in the ass they just cant score. If we can get Engvall to get near 20 and see Robertson take that next leap I think its a better group then last season where guys like Spezza and Simmonds really wore down as the season went on. |
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Post by Mika on Jul 26, 2022 15:16:36 GMT -4
Have fun with Samsonov. You'll probably see pretty quickly why we were glad to move on from him. Leafs probably would've been better off signing Campbell and bringing up a minor league goalie.
That said, Murray and Samsonov still have potential, you just never know what you'll get with them. At least you had a good idea of Campbell's abilities.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 26, 2022 15:50:14 GMT -4
Have fun with Samsonov. You'll probably see pretty quickly why we were glad to move on from him. Leafs probably would've been better off signing Campbell and bringing up a minor league goalie. That said, Murray and Samsonov still have potential, you just never know what you'll get with them. At least you had a good idea of Campbell's abilities. We did. Thats why we refused to give him 5 years. We didn't know what we'd be getting with him. Go look at the Leafs save % by month last season...Campbell is reliable when healthy but doesnt seem to be able to get through long stretches and stay healthy. Samsonov as a #2 for 1 year is a good gamble. Its no sure thing. Murray isn't either. But it really comes down to the 5 years and I dont think any of those goalies are worth that type of commitment. |
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Post by jimmy on Jul 27, 2022 6:54:03 GMT -4
Have fun with Samsonov. You'll probably see pretty quickly why we were glad to move on from him. Leafs probably would've been better off signing Campbell and bringing up a minor league goalie. That said, Murray and Samsonov still have potential, you just never know what you'll get with them. At least you had a good idea of Campbell's abilities. We did. Thats why we refused to give him 5 years. We didn't know what we'd be getting with him. Go look at the Leafs save % by month last season...Campbell is reliable when healthy but doesnt seem to be able to get through long stretches and stay healthy. Samsonov as a #2 for 1 year is a good gamble. Its no sure thing. Murray isn't either. But it really comes down to the 5 years and I dont think any of those goalies are worth that type of commitment. I agree that I wouldn't have been in hurry to sign Campbell for five years ... Kuemper either ... so in that regard, I agree with Dubas that going reduced term with Murray and Samsonov was an intriguing option. There is certainly a chance that either, or both, outperform what was available on the FA market this summer (whether that is due to them playing well, or the FAs not delivering as hoped). That having been said, I also think the Leafs goalie mess has been years in the making, and that somewhere along the way, Dubas could have made different choices in building his roster so that he didn't end up where he did in the summer of 2022 (i.e. with taking a flyer on a couple of reclamation projects to carry the ball for a team he hopes can contend for the Cup being his seemingly best option). |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jul 27, 2022 7:01:53 GMT -4
We did. Thats why we refused to give him 5 years. We didn't know what we'd be getting with him. Go look at the Leafs save % by month last season...Campbell is reliable when healthy but doesnt seem to be able to get through long stretches and stay healthy. Samsonov as a #2 for 1 year is a good gamble. Its no sure thing. Murray isn't either. But it really comes down to the 5 years and I dont think any of those goalies are worth that type of commitment. I agree that I wouldn't have been in hurry to sign Campbell for five years ... Kuemper either ... so in that regard, I agree with Dubas that going reduced term with Murray and Samsonov was an intriguing option. There is certainly a chance that either, or both, outperform what was available on the FA market this summer (whether that is due to them playing well, or the FAs not delivering as hoped). That having been said, I also think the Leafs goalie mess has been years in the making, and that somewhere along the way, Dubas could have made different choices in building his roster so that he didn't end up where he did in the summer of 2022 (i.e. with taking a flyer on a couple of reclamation projects to carry the ball for a team he hopes can contend for the Cup being his seemingly best option). That's my thinking as well, they have treated goaltending as an afterthought and now they act like they have few options, but they could have made better roster construction a higher priority in the past. Spending around 40% of the cap on 3 forwards is not a winning strategy. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 27, 2022 9:25:20 GMT -4
I agree that I wouldn't have been in hurry to sign Campbell for five years ... Kuemper either ... so in that regard, I agree with Dubas that going reduced term with Murray and Samsonov was an intriguing option. There is certainly a chance that either, or both, outperform what was available on the FA market this summer (whether that is due to them playing well, or the FAs not delivering as hoped). That having been said, I also think the Leafs goalie mess has been years in the making, and that somewhere along the way, Dubas could have made different choices in building his roster so that he didn't end up where he did in the summer of 2022 (i.e. with taking a flyer on a couple of reclamation projects to carry the ball for a team he hopes can contend for the Cup being his seemingly best option). That's my thinking as well, they have treated goaltending as an afterthought and now they act like they have few options, but they could have made better roster construction a higher priority in the past. Spending around 40% of the cap on 3 forwards is not a winning strategy. They were 4th overall with 115 points in the regular season. They havent won at playoff time but its impossible to say there are zero signs of success. Unless the logic is that 1 NHL team wins and does no wrong and there's 31 losers doing nothing right. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jul 27, 2022 9:36:18 GMT -4
That's my thinking as well, they have treated goaltending as an afterthought and now they act like they have few options, but they could have made better roster construction a higher priority in the past. Spending around 40% of the cap on 3 forwards is not a winning strategy. They were 4th overall with 115 points in the regular season. They havent won at playoff time but its impossible to say there are zero signs of success. Unless the logic is that 1 NHL team wins and does no wrong and there's 31 losers doing nothing right. Goaltending takes a lot more importance in the playoffs. It's much harder to outscore teams because it's a best on best and 16/32 teams are no longer around. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 27, 2022 9:41:51 GMT -4
They were 4th overall with 115 points in the regular season. They havent won at playoff time but its impossible to say there are zero signs of success. Unless the logic is that 1 NHL team wins and does no wrong and there's 31 losers doing nothing right. Goaltending takes a lot more importance in the playoffs. It's much harder to outscore teams because it's a best on best and 16/32 teams are no longer around. I agree. There's also only like 3-4 goaltenders that people consider elite and its impossible to acquire them. Even if Toronto didn't have Tavares or Marner and had $11 million in cap space they wouldnt have Vasilevskiy or Shesterkin to add to their team. They'd still be choosing between guys like Fleury, Campbell, Kuemper, Murray, Talbot, etc....all of them have warts and none will ever be favored over the elite at that position. |
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Post by jimmy on Jul 27, 2022 10:11:42 GMT -4
Goaltending takes a lot more importance in the playoffs. It's much harder to outscore teams because it's a best on best and 16/32 teams are no longer around. I agree. There's also only like 3-4 goaltenders that people consider elite and its impossible to acquire them. Even if Toronto didn't have Tavares or Marner and had $11 million in cap space they wouldnt have Vasilevskiy or Shesterkin to add to their team. They'd still be choosing between guys like Fleury, Campbell, Kuemper, Murray, Talbot, etc....all of them have warts and none will ever be favored over the elite at that position. I don't think it is quite right to say there is only 3-4 goalies capable of being a solid long term starting option ... not sure what the number is, but it is higher than that ... and you have a Leafs team that has been built to contend for a multi-year period, starting a few years ago, and likely extending a few more years. Somewhere along the way the team should have addressed their goaltending - but they didn't, and now they are where they are - seemingly entering each offseason looking for a new solution, and having to pick from a bunch of unappealing options in the discount bin. |
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