|
|
Post by moosefan1994 on Jun 15, 2023 7:28:55 GMT -4
iF legitimately contending next year isn’t in the cards without massively emptying the cupboards what would a hypothetical Dumais trade look like?
- would Cam look at futures in mind for 2024-2025?
- would he look at younger players and draft picks exclusively?
- a combo of both?
I would love to see the team legitimately contend next year but let’s face it , Bobby fucked us by nixing the Desnoyers deal and we tried last year with a stronger contingent of existing players; contending this year will end up with us not having a first round pick until 2027.
I think trading Dumais should net the Mooseheads 4-5 assets whether they be future players for 2024-2025 or high draft picks.
Our 20s for 2024-2025 could end up being Vidicek, Schultz, Rousseau and maybe Furlong but I think Furlong could also be traded this year with looking at resetting for 2024-2025 and beyond.
Obviously the first half of next season still has to be played and then take a look at what is going on but I think Cam may have to seriously consider trading Dumais for the good of the team going forward.
|
|
|
|
Post by prospectsfinest on Jun 15, 2023 8:47:41 GMT -4
I think it would be wise to take a look at this at Christmas as well. Unloading Dumais and Furlong to contenders could have the team set up for 24/25 and probably fast track a rebuild in 25/26. Could only imagine what a team like Drummondville would trade to get Dumais, or Moncton to get Furlong?
I also like the thought of Vidicek, Schultz, and Rousseau as 24/25 over agers. How nice is it to have them developing in your own system and not spending firsts!!
|
|
|
|
Post by howitzer on Jun 15, 2023 9:34:48 GMT -4
The import draft and subsequently the first half of the season will determine which direction to go.
If there's even a sniff this team can't legitimately contend this year, sell anything not tied down. At least try to make up a bit for the negligence of not trading Desnoyers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Citris on Jun 15, 2023 10:25:59 GMT -4
I know this is a "what if" but it's also kinda silly. Dumais isn't being traded.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 15, 2023 11:32:05 GMT -4
I know this is a "what if" but it's also kinda silly. Dumais isn't being traded. Sly's already preparing an offer. |
|
|
|
Post by moosefan1994 on Jun 15, 2023 11:35:37 GMT -4
For those who find this thread “silly” , not worth responding to then fine don’t bother responding then and carry on.
It has been mentioned in other Moose Talk threads so I figured maybe it should have its own thread. I’m not saying I want Dumais traded just for the sake of it- most of us know full well the main reason why it won’t happen will be the business case overtaking the hockey case anyways.
I didn’t start this thread to cause division , I started it to have a discussion- I put HYPOTHETICAL in the name of the thread!!!
If you want to discuss what a possible package for Dumais would look like then feel free to discuss in a mature non-condescending manner, if you find it silly then move along, that is the point of this board is isn’t it!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Citris on Jun 15, 2023 13:22:52 GMT -4
For those who find this thread “silly” , not worth responding to then fine don’t bother responding then and carry on. It has been mentioned in other Moose Talk threads so I figured maybe it should have its own thread. I’m not saying I want Dumais traded just for the sake of it- most of us know full well the main reason why it won’t happen will be the business case overtaking the hockey case anyways. I didn’t start this thread to cause division , I started it to have a discussion- I put HYPOTHETICAL in the name of the thread!!! If you want to discuss what a possible package for Dumais would look like then feel free to discuss in a mature non-condescending manner, if you find it silly then move along, that is the point of this board is isn’t it!!!! Y'know what? That's fair. I wasn't intending to shut down conversation, but my post was quite lazy and thoughtless, so I apologize. The more articulate version of what I want to say is more like this - Looking at who actually has the assets to pull off a Dumais trade - the only one that makes sense is Drummondville. They have their own and Charlottetown's 1st this year, and their own 1st next year, as well as a few futures that could be interesting (Luke Woodworth or Tyler Peddle, specifically). That said if we actually did decide to build for next year, Vidicek - Shultz - Rousseau would probably be the 20's, so there's not really room for Woodworth. I still think overall it's extremely unrealistic, because if you trade Dumais you're probably trading Furlong and Whynot as well, and by the time Christmas comes around, the Mooseheads are probably going to be top 8 in the league, it'd be an odd look. But, for fun, I'll entertain the idea that the Mooseheads sell this year to build for 2024-25 and the future - How I could see things playing out - The only 2 CLEAR contenders other than Halifax are Drummondville and Rouyn, and DRU has more assets. I'll do this purely hypothetical scenario - To Drummondville - Jordan Dumais To Halifax - 1st 2024 (CHA) 1st 2025 (DRU) (picks that return to Drummondville at the draft for Tyler Peddle) To Royun-Noranda - Jake Furlong To Halifax - 2nd 2024 (CAP) 2nd 2025 (RN) (Returned to RN at the draft for Tomas Verdon) So 2025 in that case looks like... Peitzche (18) - Vidicek(20) - Cataford (19) Crosby (19) - Verdon (19) - Peddle (19) Naserddine?? (17) - Kilfoil (17) - Fontaine (18) Lévesque ?? (18) - Todd (19) - Welsh (19) Shultz (20) - Phillips (18) Martin (19) - MacKinnon (19) Boucher (18) - Doyle?? (17) Rousseau (20) Milner (19) Without Euros or adding additional pieces, that's not a bad lineup. I still think it's fairly unrealistic tho XD |
|
|
|
Post by moosefan1994 on Jun 15, 2023 13:56:06 GMT -4
For those who find this thread “silly” , not worth responding to then fine don’t bother responding then and carry on. It has been mentioned in other Moose Talk threads so I figured maybe it should have its own thread. I’m not saying I want Dumais traded just for the sake of it- most of us know full well the main reason why it won’t happen will be the business case overtaking the hockey case anyways. I didn’t start this thread to cause division , I started it to have a discussion- I put HYPOTHETICAL in the name of the thread!!! If you want to discuss what a possible package for Dumais would look like then feel free to discuss in a mature non-condescending manner, if you find it silly then move along, that is the point of this board is isn’t it!!!! Y'know what? That's fair. I wasn't intending to shut down conversation, but my post was quite lazy and thoughtless, so I apologize. The more articulate version of what I want to say is more like this - Looking at who actually has the assets to pull off a Dumais trade - the only one that makes sense is Drummondville. They have their own and Charlottetown's 1st this year, and their own 1st next year, as well as a few futures that could be interesting (Luke Woodworth or Tyler Peddle, specifically). That said if we actually did decide to build for next year, Vidicek - Shultz - Rousseau would probably be the 20's, so there's not really room for Woodworth. I still think overall it's extremely unrealistic, because if you trade Dumais you're probably trading Furlong and Whynot as well, and by the time Christmas comes around, the Mooseheads are probably going to be top 8 in the league, it'd be an odd look. But, for fun, I'll entertain the idea that the Mooseheads sell this year to build for 2024-25 and the future - How I could see things playing out - The only 2 CLEAR contenders other than Halifax are Drummondville and Rouyn, and DRU has more assets. I'll do this purely hypothetical scenario - To Drummondville - Jordan Dumais To Halifax - 1st 2024 (CHA) 1st 2025 (DRU) (picks that return to Drummondville at the draft for Tyler Peddle) To Royun-Noranda - Jake Furlong To Halifax - 2nd 2024 (CAP) 2nd 2025 (RN) (Returned to RN at the draft for Tomas Verdon) So 2025 in that case looks like... Peitzche (18) - Vidicek(20) - Cataford (19) Crosby (19) - Verdon (19) - Peddle (19) Naserddine?? (17) - Kilfoil (17) - Fontaine (18) Lévesque ?? (18) - Todd (19) - Welsh (19) Shultz (20) - Phillips (18) Martin (19) - MacKinnon (19) Boucher (18) - Doyle?? (17) Rousseau (20) Milner (19) Without Euros or adding additional pieces, that's not a bad lineup. I still think it's fairly unrealistic tho XD To be quite honest if right now we were going to trade Dumais to Drummondville I think we would be getting more than just Peddle right away wouldn’t we? But I suppose that ties back into why a Dumais trade most likely doesn’t happen so there you go. |
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 15, 2023 13:58:07 GMT -4
It makes a ton of sense for a lot of reasons. Just traded assets to go for it. Good enough core that 1 down year could mean another great contending season as the 1 year wait and accumulating some assets keeps you from trading really deep now and wanting to move guys you may not be able to when they're vets.
It made sense to buy this past season as you can't do it 3 years in a row anyway. But it forced what could be a more neutral year which enrages fans who want to see expiring assets be turned into future assets if they're not going to be on a true contender.
|
|
|
|
Post by moosefan1994 on Jun 15, 2023 13:59:41 GMT -4
One of the best moves in the last couple decades in the Q was Saint John trading Grant and Didimenico at the Xmas trade period in 2008-2009 , they had a three year run based on getting Hoffman , Gauthier as future players and a number of draft picks , one of which became Huberdeau or was traded to get the pick they got him with.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 15, 2023 14:12:43 GMT -4
One of the best moves in the last couple decades in the Q was Saint John trading Grant and Didimenico at the Xmas trade period in 2008-2009 , they had a three year run based on getting Hoffman , Gauthier as future players and a number of draft picks , one of which became Huberdeau or was traded to get the pick they got him with. And financially the longer term play seems like the smarter move vs the mistake of buying when you shouldn't which can cripple your revenue for years and require you to earn back the trust of ticket buyers. As a fan for 20+ years I feel like many of the long and drawn out rebuilds came from complete all in pushes that in some cases made no sense as there was never a core in place to win and a team just decided they wanted to win anyway and it blows up and fans have no payoff of success ahead of a period of bad hockey and no draft pick reward. The league and the teams still don't get that to many fans losing is ok if there is a reward for it. But if you finish in last place and Victoriaville has your draft pick it's like an added kick to the balls for people who follow closely. |
|
|
|
Post by Citris on Jun 15, 2023 14:27:35 GMT -4
To be quite honest if right now we were going to trade Dumais to Drummondville I think we would be getting more than just Peddle right away wouldn’t we? But I suppose that ties back into why a Dumais trade most likely doesn’t happen so there you go. I doubt it. If Halifax were to trade Dumais, you're basically giving up on the season. Peddle would be a key piece for DRU's run, and honestly I'd rather have Peddle get that run to the finals before being traded to Halifax than coming back immediately and going out in probably the 1st or second round. I think you could expect something like Drew Elliott back immediately, who is currently better than most of our 20 options but not a premier piece. |
|
|
|
Post by Jacques Strap on Jun 15, 2023 14:31:30 GMT -4
One of the best moves in the last couple decades in the Q was Saint John trading Grant and Didimenico at the Xmas trade period in 2008-2009 , they had a three year run based on getting Hoffman , Gauthier as future players and a number of draft picks , one of which became Huberdeau or was traded to get the pick they got him with. And financially the longer term play seems like the smarter move vs the mistake of buying when you shouldn't which can cripple your revenue for years and require you to earn back the trust of ticket buyers. As a fan for 20+ years I feel like many of the long and drawn out rebuilds came from complete all in pushes that in some cases made no sense as there was never a core in place to win and a team just decided they wanted to win anyway and it blows up and fans have no payoff of success ahead of a period of bad hockey and no draft pick reward. The league and the teams still don't get that to many fans losing is ok if there is a reward for it. But if you finish in last place and Victoriaville has your draft pick it's like an added kick to the balls for people who follow closely. Yeah the year CB had the Mooseheads 1st overall pick and drafted James Sheppard really sucked. Am I remembering that correctly? |
|
|
|
Post by Citris on Jun 15, 2023 14:33:02 GMT -4
And financially the longer term play seems like the smarter move vs the mistake of buying when you shouldn't which can cripple your revenue for years and require you to earn back the trust of ticket buyers. As a fan for 20+ years I feel like many of the long and drawn out rebuilds came from complete all in pushes that in some cases made no sense as there was never a core in place to win and a team just decided they wanted to win anyway and it blows up and fans have no payoff of success ahead of a period of bad hockey and no draft pick reward. The league and the teams still don't get that to many fans losing is ok if there is a reward for it. But if you finish in last place and Victoriaville has your draft pick it's like an added kick to the balls for people who follow closely. I'm not saying it would be a bad idea to trade away players this year to build for the future, but... I'm just extremely skeptical it happens. I mean, we have a new owner in charge, and although he seems to be pretty engaged, I don't think he'd have that kind of foresight given his level of experience. I don't really see Cam Russell trying to push him on the idea, either. From a marketing standpoint it's the 30th season... which I suppose you can look at one of two ways - 1 - It's a big season and you want fans to come to the rink and see a winner. 2 - It's the 30th season, and that can help sell tickets even if a team is hovering around .500 I think that's the other weird thing about the Moose this year, even without Dumais and Furlong they won't be a BAD team, they'd just be... well starved for offense. They lack depth either way. |
|
|
|
Post by Citris on Jun 15, 2023 14:34:11 GMT -4
Yeah the year CB had the Mooseheads 1st overall pick and drafted James Sheppard really sucked. Am I remembering that correctly? Yes and no. The same trade lead directly to a run to the Finals so, it's hard to say it was a bad trade for Halifax who probably would have won the league if not for Crosby. |
|
