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Post by moosefan1994 on Jul 10, 2023 9:21:54 GMT -4
I would rather have a climate change plan where the cost of renewable energy was lowered to below what oil and gas were at their lower levels rather than a carbon tax designed to raise the cost to where renewables are presently - not at all sorry that it seems MAGA like for fuck sakes it’s common fucking sense people , if you like paying taxes so much maybe you can pay mine as well!!! As for the introduction of the GST - that tax replaced a worse tax that was hidden in the cost of all goods manufactured in Canada. You do realize that the feds are actively investing in green technologies at the same time and that the extra cost is based on the idea that 1) the green technologies often require expensive resources and 2) they haven't existed for a hundred years yet FYI there are countries that have actually reduced their emissions without implementing a carbon tax or eliminated their carbon tax.
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Post by Briwhel on Jul 10, 2023 9:35:46 GMT -4
You do realize that the feds are actively investing in green technologies at the same time and that the extra cost is based on the idea that 1) the green technologies often require expensive resources and 2) they haven't existed for a hundred years yet FYI there are countries that have actually reduced their emissions without implementing a carbon tax or eliminated their carbon tax. Yes, and those countries have cleaner oil and willing industry.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 10, 2023 9:46:29 GMT -4
I would rather have a climate change plan where the cost of renewable energy was lowered to below what oil and gas were at their lower levels rather than a carbon tax designed to raise the cost to where renewables are presently - not at all sorry that it seems MAGA like for fuck sakes it’s common fucking sense people , if you like paying taxes so much maybe you can pay mine as well!!! As for the introduction of the GST - that tax replaced a worse tax that was hidden in the cost of all goods manufactured in Canada. You're obsessed with the tax part. Even though over time that tax is directly leading to programs that will save people a pile of money. Drive around your neighbourhood and look at how many have heat pumps now vs say 10 years ago. Year round climate control at a considerably lower price than oil heat and no summer relief. You say the GST replaced something....the carbon tax is leading to oil replacement for Canadian home owners. Last year oil was more here without this tax. You can't control the price of a commodity such as oil. So you find ways to get yourself off of it. The Carbon tax is clearly creating programs that do that. 40 cents cheaper. Rebate check coming. Programs all over the place for electrical, windows, heating overhauls. But yeah fuck that Trudeau guy....should have me paying $3 for a litre of oil so I dont have to pay $1.75 per litre. Will we ever get a plan from the CPC or more tag lines of scrap the tax without any plans behind it? We just seen how a MAGA obsessed idiot fooled millions into thinking he was going to change the system while actually just doubling down on the corruptness...how does that help Canada? I am 100% in favor of moving on from Trudeau. But give me a real tangible alternative. Not Skippy the wonderboy with a C on his chest telling me why taxes are bad and bitcoin is good. I knew when initially voting for Trudeau that I was voting for someone looking to drastically change the energy situation, diversify our economy with more tech investment, and legalize Marijuana. All things I support. He did all of that and some other not so great things along the way. I can honestly say I don't know 1 thing Polievre is going to do. "He's not Justin" isn't a reason to vote for him. Trudeau didn't stand up in 2015 and say "i'm not Stephen so vote for me" there was policy to get behind that the other side wasn't pushing at all. When there's some policy items and planning to chew on...let me know...until then cheaper gas/oil and rebate checks and knowing how the tax has been handled for years before this month tells me i'm still probably a Trudeau voter because I'm not voting for the Anti-Trudeau. I need a plan to support.
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Gas Prices
Jul 10, 2023 11:29:38 GMT -4
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Post by moosefan1994 on Jul 10, 2023 11:29:38 GMT -4
So when do the rebates come out then?
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Jul 10, 2023 12:08:29 GMT -4
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Post by scotiahockey on Jul 10, 2023 12:08:29 GMT -4
So when do the rebates come out then? July 14th
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Jul 10, 2023 12:18:48 GMT -4
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Post by Score on Jul 10, 2023 12:18:48 GMT -4
So when do the rebates come out then? July 14th For myself, my cra says for me, July 21st.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 10, 2023 12:39:18 GMT -4
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Jul 10, 2023 13:18:03 GMT -4
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Post by scotiahockey on Jul 10, 2023 13:18:03 GMT -4
For myself, my cra says for me, July 21st. Mine says July 14th but I did read it’s anywhere between the 14th and 21st so I guess it all just depends.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 10, 2023 13:51:03 GMT -4
For myself, my cra says for me, July 21st. Mine says July 14th but I did read it’s anywhere between the 14th and 21st so I guess it all just depends. Different dates in different provinces I believe. And i'll add this: As someone who worked every day through covid lockdowns and never received any money from anyone for relief around the pandemic and inflation this carbon tax rebate is the only added anything my household sees because a working couple is not going to get GST rebates or fuel discounts or grocery checks or any of the other things I see and hear people getting. And I think it's great that those who get those things are able to have their lives be a little easier from that help. Not at all meant to try and take it away. But to get a little something quarterly will be good for everyone since literally every person gets something out of this from what I understand.
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Jul 10, 2023 14:09:57 GMT -4
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Post by scotiahockey on Jul 10, 2023 14:09:57 GMT -4
Mine says July 14th but I did read it’s anywhere between the 14th and 21st so I guess it all just depends. Different dates in different provinces I believe. And i'll add this: As someone who worked every day through covid lockdowns and never received any money from anyone for relief around the pandemic and inflation this carbon tax rebate is the only added anything my household sees because a working couple is not going to get GST rebates or fuel discounts or grocery checks or any of the other things I see and hear people getting. And I think it's great that those who get those things are able to have their lives be a little easier from that help. Not at all meant to try and take it away. But to get a little something quarterly will be good for everyone since literally every person gets something out of this from what I understand. I’m not complaining about the rebate for sure, I’ll take whatever I can get because like you I’ve never received any of the other incentives and they’re going to hand the money out anyways. Now it’s not quite as simple as looking at the straight up fuel cost (and it impacts more then fuel) because I’m sure companies and corporations will pass the increase along to the consumers but if you’re getting $496 from this and you’re only concerned about the fuel price (which a lot of people are) then you’d have to buy like 3550 litres of gas per year before you “lost” on this. I drive about 20,000 K a year and don’t buy half that amount of gas, it’s more than 2 years worth of gasoline for me. I won’t pretend to know all the economic outcomes of this because no one really knows but since everyone loves to bitch and complain about the price of fuel, you either have to drive a lot or have a vehicle that’s absolutely terrible on gas for the increase at the pump to impact you the way people make it out to be.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 10, 2023 15:39:16 GMT -4
Different dates in different provinces I believe. And i'll add this: As someone who worked every day through covid lockdowns and never received any money from anyone for relief around the pandemic and inflation this carbon tax rebate is the only added anything my household sees because a working couple is not going to get GST rebates or fuel discounts or grocery checks or any of the other things I see and hear people getting. And I think it's great that those who get those things are able to have their lives be a little easier from that help. Not at all meant to try and take it away. But to get a little something quarterly will be good for everyone since literally every person gets something out of this from what I understand. I’m not complaining about the rebate for sure, I’ll take whatever I can get because like you I’ve never received any of the other incentives and they’re going to hand the money out anyways. Now it’s not quite as simple as looking at the straight up fuel cost (and it impacts more then fuel) because I’m sure companies and corporations will pass the increase along to the consumers but if you’re getting $496 from this and you’re only concerned about the fuel price (which a lot of people are) then you’d have to buy like 3550 litres of gas per year before you “lost” on this. I drive about 20,000 K a year and don’t buy half that amount of gas, it’s more than 2 years worth of gasoline for me. I won’t pretend to know all the economic outcomes of this because no one really knows but since everyone loves to bitch and complain about the price of fuel, you either have to drive a lot or have a vehicle that’s absolutely terrible on gas for the increase at the pump to impact you the way people make it out to be. Based on the lineups I see on Thursdays when gas is supposed to go up I don't think most understand how little a few cents is in the bigger picture. I'm a "put $20 in" gas buyer. Put the price up/down....I buy it when I need it. Paying $1.51 or $1.76 in the big picture means nothing to me. But to believe that say $.25 cent increase is why groceries cost 2x the amount makes me wonder if people understand math or just want to blame politicians for literally everything that might not be right in the world.
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Post by Briwhel on Jul 10, 2023 17:25:53 GMT -4
Gas went up by about 10 cents in 2 weeks.
My Civic has about a 40L gas tank which means I pay $4 more this week.
At 7.5L per 100km. Even at the old cost, that difference only gets me 31.3km worth of gas (at 1.60).
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Post by themandalorian on Jul 10, 2023 18:05:19 GMT -4
My oldest daughter got married on Saturday and at the reception some friends of mine and I had a discussion over the carbon tax coming in with the viewpoints ranging from pro to con.
Moosefan1994 said the only way to get rid of it would be to elect a Conservative majority government - unless something huge happens like a major scandal or a tough recession happens that won't happen and I am a Conservative supporter.
Even if that were to happen I think it would be a terrible idea from a fiscal standpoint because let's face it, in quite a bit of the country the effects of the tax are already baked in and there is a lot of green technology research and programs that are being funded by it because it brings in revenue.
Grocery prices have had carbon taxes baked in for years but a lot of grocery price inflation is due to our market being dominated by two companies here in Atlantic Canada.
But now people are going to be getting a carbon tax rebate and while this won't cover the extra expense in whole that the carbon tax costs it will seem like free money because the effects are already baked in- like Jack Bauer said at least there will be some relief.
I'm just glad that my folks, my in'laws and myself went solar and put in heat pumps years ago, I would hate to be paying for home heating oil still.
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Post by Briwhel on Jul 10, 2023 18:45:48 GMT -4
I stay clear of the non-hockey stuff for the most part. I don't know the issues well enough to win any arguments. I'm all for cutting back on fossil fuel use and turning to natural sources of energy. It's the way it needs to be in the future and I like Canada being a leading country in that direction - and I hope we are. On the other hand - it's like I'm being told that "OK - we're going to tax you X amount of money - but we're going to give it back to you - and you'll be ahead." Then why bother to tax me in the first place? Can nobody think of a shortcut and cut out the red tape and the middle man? If it sounds too good to be true. . . I agree that many of us don't notice the difference at the gas pumps. I'm also smart enough to know that I'm going to pay in the long run one way or another - even if somebody can show me on paper that it isn't from this tax or that tax. I had a university prof describe Marxism as theoretically perfect but realistically awful and that would describe the carbon tax. As a quick answer to your question, the Carbon Tax is intended to work like the GST, where there is a rebate and Input Tax Credits are replaced by Carbon Credits (carbon credits are earned by becoming less carbon pollutant and can be sold, which hypothetically would allow the earner to invest in further reducing carbon). The long answer is that Trudeau hasn't been paying enough attention to provincial-level politics and the alignment of provincial parties with federal parties. This is incredibly stupid because their interests are not common and the very core beiefs of the "Progressive" Conservatives go directly against the Conservative Party of Canada's. He created a policy that if he forced as a universal (like GST), it would be implemented and there would be limited difference across the country and less impact. Instead, the costs were universally passed down to the end users (helping out Poilievre's stance). Poilievre is in an interesting position. The people hurt the worst by this policy are obviously his campaign donors who now have to pay more to fly their private jets around the country (or helicopters). This does not discount his opinion at all, but the biggest issue with his criticism is that he's using the Trump tactic of saying that the policy sucks, without ever disclosing what his solution would be (in fact, to the best of my knowledge, he has no public policies, which means that if we vote for him, we have absolutely no idea what he will do. The biggest negative of the carbon tax has been the rise in cost of goods, which underscores a problem we saw during COVID that no province wants to talk, which is food security. It isn't a very sexy idea to invest in tough solutions, but we need more vertical farms in the region, we need cities to re-think what the "core" of their city is and actively try to find ways to make it easier for people to live there and not need a car. We need an effective public transport. We also should be investing as a group into researching tidal power in the Bay, since if we can harness it, we could green up our grid in a big hurry (it is always best to take advantage of the efficient green options for your region).
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Gas Prices
Jul 10, 2023 21:10:52 GMT -4
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Post by scotiahockey on Jul 10, 2023 21:10:52 GMT -4
I’m not complaining about the rebate for sure, I’ll take whatever I can get because like you I’ve never received any of the other incentives and they’re going to hand the money out anyways. Now it’s not quite as simple as looking at the straight up fuel cost (and it impacts more then fuel) because I’m sure companies and corporations will pass the increase along to the consumers but if you’re getting $496 from this and you’re only concerned about the fuel price (which a lot of people are) then you’d have to buy like 3550 litres of gas per year before you “lost” on this. I drive about 20,000 K a year and don’t buy half that amount of gas, it’s more than 2 years worth of gasoline for me. I won’t pretend to know all the economic outcomes of this because no one really knows but since everyone loves to bitch and complain about the price of fuel, you either have to drive a lot or have a vehicle that’s absolutely terrible on gas for the increase at the pump to impact you the way people make it out to be. Based on the lineups I see on Thursdays when gas is supposed to go up I don't think most understand how little a few cents is in the bigger picture. I'm a "put $20 in" gas buyer. Put the price up/down....I buy it when I need it. Paying $1.51 or $1.76 in the big picture means nothing to me. But to believe that say $.25 cent increase is why groceries cost 2x the amount makes me wonder if people understand math or just want to blame politicians for literally everything that might not be right in the world. It’s ultimately going to trickle down and people will pay more because the transportation companies are going to pass it along (they’ll actually win in this whole ordeal but that’s another conversation) but the grocery greed is why they cost so much. I can’t sit there and blame them either because they’re in the business of making money but it’s also not hard to pin point why the cost is so high.
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