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Post by catnut on Oct 20, 2008 16:32:56 GMT -4
So if Cameron strapped on the pads and got two shutouts ... would he get offensive player of the week ? No Beberio or one of our d-man would get it for not allowing any shots from inside the blueline. It's BARBERIO.
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Post by gongshow on Oct 20, 2008 16:43:15 GMT -4
No Beberio or one of our d-man would get it for not allowing any shots from inside the blueline. It's BARBERIO. I think he meant "Baberio" As Gerry Green would say anyway..
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Post by SteveUL on Oct 21, 2008 8:43:33 GMT -4
... or maybe they could have 21x18=378 weekly awards.. that way every player could get one... ;D ;D I agree that you shouldn't be looking at offense only to determine the defensive player of the week. And since whoever decides didn't watch every game, they must rely on stats to choose. However, if a player plays fairly solid and is +7 because he player with A line made of Crosby, Radulov and Dupuis and never touches the puck, +/- don't mean much in such a case either. If you're going to use only one stat, than name the award the "+/-" award. IMO, a player that is +6 in 3 games with 1a and a player that is +4 in 3 games but has 2 goals and 1 assist shows a player that is able to play rock solid while adding offense. That is worth more than a simply rock solid defense. If Savard is that good like you mention, he will be making good 1st pass and will put up some points in the assist column. What Steve is looking for is to have an exact analytic formula. If there was such a formula, they would show it somewhere, and as soon as they did that, steve would be craping on how it's unfair. Why don't you, Steve, explain in your opinion how they should determine the offensive and defensive awards. Should they have a goalie award too? A goaltending award ... definately ... otherwise how can you fairly compare a goaltender to a Dman ? The CHL has a goaltender of the month award ... the Q give out two annual awards for Dmen ... and also separate goaltending awards ... why is it so hard to separate them here ? The offensive player of the week is self-explanatory ... as would goaltender of the week be. Dman of the week is not so easy to quantify ... or is it ? I'm not calling it "Defensive Player of the week" ... I'm calling it "Defenseman of the week". Then you can bring offense into it ... as well as +/- ... GH ... maybe even PK work if the guy is a regular (ex .. involved in killing 16 of 17 penalties this week). I'd suggest that each Coach (make it an Asst's job) make a submission on Monday morning for their Dman of the Week (forwards and goaltenders can be taken from the stats) ... explain what he did to deserve the nomination ... and have a panel of 4 or 5 Q officials vote on it ... or have the League Coaches vote on a short list of 4 or 5 of the nominated players. All done by email ... quick and easy. There is nothing wrong with giving out 4 weekly awards ... all the more opportunity to show who to watch in the league ... its a marketing opportunity ... maybe even marketing the players to the Scouts a little better.
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Post by AceKikr on Oct 21, 2008 10:47:54 GMT -4
... or maybe they could have 21x18=378 weekly awards.. that way every player could get one... ;D ;D I agree that you shouldn't be looking at offense only to determine the defensive player of the week. And since whoever decides didn't watch every game, they must rely on stats to choose. However, if a player plays fairly solid and is +7 because he player with A line made of Crosby, Radulov and Dupuis and never touches the puck, +/- don't mean much in such a case either. If you're going to use only one stat, than name the award the "+/-" award. IMO, a player that is +6 in 3 games with 1a and a player that is +4 in 3 games but has 2 goals and 1 assist shows a player that is able to play rock solid while adding offense. That is worth more than a simply rock solid defense. If Savard is that good like you mention, he will be making good 1st pass and will put up some points in the assist column. What Steve is looking for is to have an exact analytic formula. If there was such a formula, they would show it somewhere, and as soon as they did that, steve would be craping on how it's unfair. Why don't you, Steve, explain in your opinion how they should determine the offensive and defensive awards. Should they have a goalie award too? A goaltending award ... definately ... otherwise how can you fairly compare a goaltender to a Dman ? The CHL has a goaltender of the month award ... the Q give out two annual awards for Dmen ... and also separate goaltending awards ... why is it so hard to separate them here ? The offensive player of the week is self-explanatory ... as would goaltender of the week be. Dman of the week is not so easy to quantify ... or is it ? I'm not calling it "Defensive Player of the week" ... I'm calling it "Defenseman of the week". Then you can bring offense into it ... as well as +/- ... GH ... maybe even PK work if the guy is a regular (ex .. involved in killing 16 of 17 penalties this week). I'd suggest that each Coach (make it an Asst's job) make a submission on Monday morning for their Dman of the Week (forwards and goaltenders can be taken from the stats) ... explain what he did to deserve the nomination ... and have a panel of 4 or 5 Q officials vote on it ... or have the League Coaches vote on a short list of 4 or 5 of the nominated players. All done by email ... quick and easy. There is nothing wrong with giving out 4 weekly awards ... all the more opportunity to show who to watch in the league ... its a marketing opportunity ... maybe even marketing the players to the Scouts a little better. It's fairly simple the way it is now if you ask me, and the term "defensive player of the week" is also fitting. Defensive player of the week is the player of the week who plays in a defensive position, such as a goalie or dman. There overall productivity is what they look at (or should look at)...
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Post by SteveUL on Oct 21, 2008 10:51:44 GMT -4
A goaltending award ... definately ... otherwise how can you fairly compare a goaltender to a Dman ? The CHL has a goaltender of the month award ... the Q give out two annual awards for Dmen ... and also separate goaltending awards ... why is it so hard to separate them here ? The offensive player of the week is self-explanatory ... as would goaltender of the week be. Dman of the week is not so easy to quantify ... or is it ? I'm not calling it "Defensive Player of the week" ... I'm calling it "Defenseman of the week". Then you can bring offense into it ... as well as +/- ... GH ... maybe even PK work if the guy is a regular (ex .. involved in killing 16 of 17 penalties this week). I'd suggest that each Coach (make it an Asst's job) make a submission on Monday morning for their Dman of the Week (forwards and goaltenders can be taken from the stats) ... explain what he did to deserve the nomination ... and have a panel of 4 or 5 Q officials vote on it ... or have the League Coaches vote on a short list of 4 or 5 of the nominated players. All done by email ... quick and easy. There is nothing wrong with giving out 4 weekly awards ... all the more opportunity to show who to watch in the league ... its a marketing opportunity ... maybe even marketing the players to the Scouts a little better. It's fairly simple the way it is now if you ask me, and the term "defensive player of the week" is also fitting. Defensive player of the week is the player of the week who plays in a defensive position, such as a goalie or dman. There overall productivity is what they look at (or should look at)... So then why can a Dman win offensive player of the week ? And ... how do you compare a goaltenders stats to a Dman ... and decide which is better ? There is nothing simple about it all ... in fact ... I'd suggest there is no criteria since it doesn't seem to follow one.
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Post by jimmy on Oct 21, 2008 10:53:24 GMT -4
It's fairly simple the way it is now if you ask me, and the term "defensive player of the week" is also fitting. Defensive player of the week is the player of the week who plays in a defensive position, such as a goalie or dman. There overall productivity is what they look at (or should look at)... So then why can a Dman win offensive player of the week ? And ... how do you compare a goaltenders stats to a Dman ... and decide which is better ? There is nothing simple about it all ... in fact ... I'd suggest there is no criteria since it doesn't seem to follow one. Why not just adopt the NHL model and have a weekly 3 stars award? That way positions don't matter ... sure it would be subjective, but these types of awards always are.
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Post by catnut on Oct 21, 2008 11:01:29 GMT -4
Yes, and scouts could then rely on those 3 stars.
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Post by forrest on Oct 21, 2008 11:11:00 GMT -4
I agree with what you explained, Steve, about the defensman award.
The only issue I have with a goaltending award is some team play 2 games in a week while others sometime play 2. If you consider that backups rarely play enough games to show consistency for many games in a row, that leaves you with only 18 possible players. Now factor in the fact that some of them might have their backup play a game or 2. There would probably only be 5-6 candidates per week.
As a monthly award, or in a bigger pool of teams, I would also like to see that.
IMO, they should remove those awards and have 3 stars of the week like they do in the NHL with 2-3 honorable mentions.
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Post by bjindaho on Oct 21, 2008 11:20:24 GMT -4
How can you give a d-man offensive player of the week, and not defensive, when defensive player of the week is based largely on offensive stats...
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Post by SteveUL on Oct 21, 2008 11:24:59 GMT -4
How can you give a d-man offensive player of the week, and not defensive, when defensive player of the week is based largely on offensive stats... Thanks for coming ...
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Post by AceKikr on Oct 21, 2008 11:26:07 GMT -4
It's fairly simple the way it is now if you ask me, and the term "defensive player of the week" is also fitting. Defensive player of the week is the player of the week who plays in a defensive position, such as a goalie or dman. There overall productivity is what they look at (or should look at)... So then why can a Dman win offensive player of the week ? And ... how do you compare a goaltenders stats to a Dman ... and decide which is better ? There is nothing simple about it all ... in fact ... I'd suggest there is no criteria since it doesn't seem to follow one. Because I guess they can "out-offense" the forwards... who the hell knows...!!! All I mentioned was that that the term "defensive player of the week" is for a player that plays on a defensive position... I also like the 3 stars format.. weekly and monthly. You recognize more players that way.
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Post by AceKikr on Oct 21, 2008 11:28:17 GMT -4
How can you give a d-man offensive player of the week, and not defensive, when defensive player of the week is based largely on offensive stats... Could've been given to a goalie.. In fact, 5/6 times the offensive award was given to a dman, the denfisve pow was given to a goalie.. Once there was 2 dman honnered..
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Post by bois on Oct 21, 2008 11:32:13 GMT -4
whose to say the offensive player of the week can't be a defensive forward? just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it couldn't
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Post by SteveUL on Oct 21, 2008 11:35:34 GMT -4
I agree with what you explained, Steve, about the defensman award. The only issue I have with a goaltending award is some team play 2 games in a week while others sometime play 2. If you consider that backups rarely play enough games to show consistency for many games in a row, that leaves you with only 18 possible players. Now factor in the fact that some of them might have their backup play a game or 2. There would probably only be 5-6 candidates per week. As a monthly award, or in a bigger pool of teams, I would also like to see that. IMO, they should remove those awards and have 3 stars of the week like they do in the NHL with 2-3 honorable mentions. Well ... I agree with that ... but the goaltender award can be voted on also. If a backup steps in and shuts down Shawinigan ... giving up one goal on 53 shots ... even though he only had one start that week he probably still deserves the nod. If it is voted on ... the voters can use whatever criteria they want to use based on the information presented to them. A voter can even decide that "Riopel got it last week ... even though his numbers are still better I'm going to vote for Mosher this week because he deserves the recognition for a solid performance vs CB from a backup role". Riopel's two wins this week were over Bat and Chic ... great numbers but perhaps not as impressive than they would vs Que and Shaw ... so that can be factored in. I don't think it will ever be a perfect system ... but the current system is badly flawed and it leaves out a lot of players from contention unless they can put up enough points to beat out the goaltenders ... wtf ?? The 3 star system is probably best ... I agree ... as long as it is voted on by Coaches or GMs. That way ... any player can be recognized for what he does best. Coaches recognize a Defensive Dman doing a solid job ... even if he doesn't score a point.
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Post by SteveUL on Oct 21, 2008 11:47:29 GMT -4
whose to say the offensive player of the week can't be a defensive forward? just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it couldn't Well I would suggest that ... given the award names ... a defensive forward would be more apt to win Defensive POW if it his defensive prowess it is being based on. If he won the Offensive POW it would likley be because he put up a bunch of points ... not because he played solid defensively.
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