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Post by SteveUL on Oct 20, 2008 13:44:29 GMT -4
www.lhjmq.qc.ca/lang_en/index.php?page=232&id_nouvelle=1884Of note ... Barberio gets honourable mention with a 2 g and 1 a performance over 3 games ... and was +2 in each game for a combined +6. I fail to see how Lacroix getting 4 g and 5 a (3 games) and being +4 gets him defensive player of the week. He is a Dman that put up some very good offensive numbers ... is that defense ? He should actually get honourable mention for offensive player of the week. Perhaps he should even get both awards this week ... Riopel also got honourable mention ... 2 starts ... 2 wins ... 3 GA on 56 shots for a S% of 0.946 and a GAA of 1.47. Oh well.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Oct 20, 2008 13:48:58 GMT -4
ok, I'll explain this for the 3,765th time.
The Offensive player of the week is for forwards only.
The defensive player of the week is for d-men and goalies only.
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Post by qfan on Oct 20, 2008 14:02:12 GMT -4
What happens if a player is playing defense on the power play but foward the rest of the time?? Where do you put him?
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Post by Optimus Reim on Oct 20, 2008 14:06:20 GMT -4
If he's listed as a forward then I would assume hes a forward. Use Randy Cameron for instance. If he puts up 3 goals and 6 assists but only 2 pts come off the point on the PP does that constitute being defensive POW?? He still scored as a forward and only played limited mins as a D man.
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Post by SteveUL on Oct 20, 2008 14:08:31 GMT -4
ok, I'll explain this for the 3,765th time. The Offensive player of the week is for forwards only. The defensive player of the week is for d-men and goalies only. So a Dman can never win offensive player of the week ? Even if he outscores the rest of the league ? How do they compare a Dman's stats to a goaltendenders and decide they are more worthy or less worthy of the award ? Is +4 better than 0.946 S% ... is 9 pts better than 1.47 GAA ? Is 4 goals better than 2 wins ? You've explained this 3000+ times ... you must have the various criteria there somewhere ... They should have 3 awards ... maybe even 4 ... Forward of the Week ... Dman of the week ... Goaltender of the Week ... and Rookie of the Week. Dman of the week wouldn't have to be strictly about defensive play ... just the Dman with the most impressive week. Calling it Defensive player of the week and awarding it to a guy that put up the highest offense is a bit of a joke ... and it takes the award away from actual defensive minded players that may be more deserving. A guy like David Savard isn't going to win any weekly awards unless he can put up 9 pts ... even though he is a rock out there almost every shift. These awards are leaving out a very important aspect of the game.
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Post by sec21critic on Oct 20, 2008 14:12:34 GMT -4
ok, I'll explain this for the 3,765th time. The Offensive player of the week is for forwards only. The defensive player of the week is for d-men and goalies only. And I'll shoot you down for the 3,765th time... Defensemen have gotten the offensive award in the past. Wether they have changed the perameters of the rule, I cannot say for sure... but I do know Thomas Malec got the offensive award at least once... and there have been a couple of other instances. Now maybe the rule HAS changed (sort of like how they stopped giving the Vezina to goalies based strictly on GAA... once Denis Herron and Richard Sevigny won it they probably realized the flaw in that system). But at one time not so long ago, defensemen could win the offensive POW award.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Oct 20, 2008 14:27:45 GMT -4
What happens if a player is playing defense on the power play but foward the rest of the time?? Where do you put him? Forward, because he'd be listed as one...see Cameron.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Oct 20, 2008 14:29:28 GMT -4
ok, I'll explain this for the 3,765th time. The Offensive player of the week is for forwards only. The defensive player of the week is for d-men and goalies only. And I'll shoot you down for the 3,765th time... Defensemen have gotten the offensive award in the past. Wether they have changed the perameters of the rule, I cannot say for sure... but I do know Thomas Malec got the offensive award at least once... and there have been a couple of other instances. Now maybe the rule HAS changed (sort of like how they stopped giving the Vezina to goalies based strictly on GAA... once Denis Herron and Richard Sevigny won it they probably realized the flaw in that system). But at one time not so long ago, defensemen could win the offensive POW award. Well it's been that way as far back as I can remember. If you can find an example to the contrary, go for it.
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Post by SteveUL on Oct 20, 2008 14:33:10 GMT -4
What happens if a player is playing defense on the power play but foward the rest of the time?? Where do you put him? Forward, because he'd be listed as one...see Cameron. So if Cameron strapped on the pads and got two shutouts ... would he get offensive player of the week ?
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Post by Captain Obvious on Oct 20, 2008 14:35:50 GMT -4
Forward, because he'd be listed as one...see Cameron. So if Cameron strapped on the pads and got two shutouts ... would he get offensive player of the week ? No Beberio or one of our d-man would get it for not allowing any shots from inside the blueline.
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Post by sec21critic on Oct 20, 2008 14:52:23 GMT -4
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Oct 20, 2008 14:54:07 GMT -4
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Post by SteveUL on Oct 20, 2008 15:05:42 GMT -4
ok, I'll explain this for the 3,765th time. The Offensive player of the week is for forwards only. The defensive player of the week is for d-men and goalies only. Soooo ... then you've been wrong for 3765 times ... just on this issue. What other BS have you been floating that has just been made up gibberish ? I'll ask you again ... what criteria do they use here ? How do they differentiate between an offensive player and a defensive player ... and how can they compare a defensive player to a goaltender ?
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Post by Captain Obvious on Oct 20, 2008 15:36:01 GMT -4
ok, I'll explain this for the 3,765th time. The Offensive player of the week is for forwards only. The defensive player of the week is for d-men and goalies only. Soooo ... then you've been wrong for 3765 times ... just on this issue. What other BS have you been floating that has just been made up gibberish ? I'll ask you again ... what criteria do they use here ? How do they differentiate between an offensive player and a defensive player ... and how can they compare a defensive player to a goaltender ? E-mail the league. I was told by a league official a couple of years ago that the offensive player was for forwards and defensive player was for d-men and goalie. I guess they make exceptions to their rules.
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Post by forrest on Oct 20, 2008 16:12:03 GMT -4
... or maybe they could have 21x18=378 weekly awards.. that way every player could get one... ;D ;D
I agree that you shouldn't be looking at offense only to determine the defensive player of the week. And since whoever decides didn't watch every game, they must rely on stats to choose.
However, if a player plays fairly solid and is +7 because he player with A line made of Crosby, Radulov and Dupuis and never touches the puck, +/- don't mean much in such a case either. If you're going to use only one stat, than name the award the "+/-" award.
IMO, a player that is +6 in 3 games with 1a and a player that is +4 in 3 games but has 2 goals and 1 assist shows a player that is able to play rock solid while adding offense. That is worth more than a simply rock solid defense.
If Savard is that good like you mention, he will be making good 1st pass and will put up some points in the assist column.
What Steve is looking for is to have an exact analytic formula. If there was such a formula, they would show it somewhere, and as soon as they did that, steve would be craping on how it's unfair.
Why don't you, Steve, explain in your opinion how they should determine the offensive and defensive awards. Should they have a goalie award too?
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