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Post by wingman on Dec 16, 2007 14:54:10 GMT -4
Agree on some points. I agree the loss of MacMillian won't be felt much once Marchand arrives compared to what the team was pre-Marchand. However it's still a loss. Right now, we're Marchand and MacMillian. Much better. I would like to pick up Lessard, but I would rather use youth and/or picks to accomplish that. I disagree with the notion that he's a good bet to play in the Q next year. He struggled to start the year, but he's coming around. A trade to a contender will only increase his chances of getting signed and making the jump next year. Not to say Lessard won't be back, but I think the odds of him returning are less than 50%. As nice as it'll be to get a high first rounder, we'd still be out a top 25 pick (Riki's 2nd) and how great will the difference be between those two players? For one (if you play the percentages), odds are the 2nd round pick is a guy that plays as an overager, which makes him a 5 year player. Very few high 1sts end up as 5 year players, some of them only 3 years. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather the 1st than the 2nd, but I don't think the difference between the two is as large as it first appears. You then look at MacMillian's trade value next winter. Next year, MacMillian figures to be a likely top 5 forward in the Q, possibly #1 if he can put his current troubles behind him and continue to develop the way he was. His trade value next year (a Memorial Cup year) would be through the roof. He's next year's Brad Marchand. The first rounder (actually, it's not even a straight up first...... it's a jump of about 20-25 picks) and either Clow or Mosher (or whoever) would be easily aquired by Halifax, and then some. If we were to move O'Connor and the 2nd to PEI for Lessard, and kept MacMillian...... Halifax would have a better team this year with MacMillian, and be without O'Connor, a 1st and a mid-level prospect. Well below what MacMillian would likely fetch at the deadline next year. It's not a roses deal for Halifax, but if MacMillian has asked to be traded to PEI, then it's certainly a good deal when factoring that in. For PEI, the deal makes a lot of sense if they plan on contending next season. If not, then they're basically hoping the difference in what they'd get for MacMillian next year, compared to Lessard this year, is greater than the prospect they'd give up in this deal, and the drop in the draft. All that is contingent on how MacMillan comes back from and/or is able to deal with his personal issues. If he was already back with the Mooseheads playing like he used to, then it's a not that big of an issue. But where he hasn't played since he took the time off, I think it is something that the Rocket or any team that is interested in his services should be looking into before giving up alot to get him. As far as the 1st rounder being a potentially high pick, I wouldn't want to risk losing a player that you could potentially build your team around, IMO that's the difference in having a top 5 pick versus having a pick in the 20-25 range. |
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Post by elbowz on Dec 16, 2007 16:07:36 GMT -4
Even though the moose are a conteder this year, i think macmillan would rather be a rocket, this fatigue thing is getting old, macmill is not playing to his potential and could use a fresh start in the new year.
macmillan and draft pick or pridham ( i don't know who else would be involved)
for
morrison and lessard
would work out great for both teams.. this is halifax's year not the rocket's.. PEI would have an elite player back next year playing in his home town
i would really like to see this deal happen and in my opionion is the most likly of any deal that the moose will do.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Dec 16, 2007 16:40:36 GMT -4
MacMillan, 2008 2nd rd pick
for
Lessard, 2008 1st rd pick and a prospect (Clow or Mosher)I don't like this deal for the Rocket for a couple of reasons. If the Rocket are sellers this season by trading Morrison, Lessard etc, chances are the Rocket will finish low in the overall standings at the end of the season, which could make that 1st round pick a top 5 draft choice. That top 5 pick could be used to land us another Doyle or another Southorn. Another reason is if the prospect is someone like Clow or Mosher who could go on and become top players for Halifax, both these guys were highly touted in their draft years so the potential is there. I'm not sure what Macmillan's status is right now but if he is indeed out due to concussion or personal issues, I would want to make sure those issues are not something that will affect his play or cause him to miss long periods of time. This trade makes alot of sense for Halifax because even though they lose MacMillan, they are still getting Marchand (supposedly) who can make up for the lost offense plus they are getting a possible very high draft choice and a prospect who could become an impact player. This trade not only helps them now but also helps them down the road too, from a Halifax point a view I think it would be a good trade. Agree on some points. I agree the loss of MacMillian won't be felt much once Marchand arrives compared to what the team was pre-Marchand. However it's still a loss. Right now, we're Marchand and MacMillian. Much better. I would like to pick up Lessard, but I would rather use youth and/or picks to accomplish that. I disagree with the notion that he's a good bet to play in the Q next year. He struggled to start the year, but he's coming around. A trade to a contender will only increase his chances of getting signed and making the jump next year. Not to say Lessard won't be back, but I think the odds of him returning are less than 50%. As nice as it'll be to get a high first rounder, we'd still be out a top 25 pick (Riki's 2nd) and how great will the difference be between those two players? For one (if you play the percentages), odds are the 2nd round pick is a guy that plays as an overager, which makes him a 5 year player. Very few high 1sts end up as 5 year players, some of them only 3 years. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather the 1st than the 2nd, but I don't think the difference between the two is as large as it first appears. You then look at MacMillian's trade value next winter. Next year, MacMillian figures to be a likely top 5 forward in the Q, possibly #1 if he can put his current troubles behind him and continue to develop the way he was. His trade value next year (a Memorial Cup year) would be through the roof. He's next year's Brad Marchand. The first rounder (actually, it's not even a straight up first...... it's a jump of about 20-25 picks) and either Clow or Mosher (or whoever) would be easily aquired by Halifax, and then some. If we were to move O'Connor and the 2nd to PEI for Lessard, and kept MacMillian...... Halifax would have a better team this year with MacMillian, and be without O'Connor, a 1st and a mid-level prospect. Well below what MacMillian would likely fetch at the deadline next year. It's not a roses deal for Halifax, but if MacMillian has asked to be traded to PEI, then it's certainly a good deal when factoring that in. For PEI, the deal makes a lot of sense if they plan on contending next season. If not, then they're basically hoping the difference in what they'd get for MacMillian next year, compared to Lessard this year, is greater than the prospect they'd give up in this deal, and the drop in the draft. I think your overrating MacMillan a bit when you say he will be a top 5 forward next year, maybe #1 forward.... and score like Marchand. He will be a great player in the mold of Samson, or Clendenning but with more offense. At best a "Cliche" type guy, solid 2 way guy and on-ice leader. He benefits alot from playing with Voracek in terms of points... now last year down the stretch, he was possibly our best forward, and hopefully he can regain that in this second half, assuming he returns. But I still don't see top 5 forward status, especially where he has yet to progress on last year and this illness may be pretty serious... |
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Post by Murph on Dec 16, 2007 17:59:16 GMT -4
Agree on some points. I agree the loss of MacMillian won't be felt much once Marchand arrives compared to what the team was pre-Marchand. However it's still a loss. Right now, we're Marchand and MacMillian. Much better. I would like to pick up Lessard, but I would rather use youth and/or picks to accomplish that. I disagree with the notion that he's a good bet to play in the Q next year. He struggled to start the year, but he's coming around. A trade to a contender will only increase his chances of getting signed and making the jump next year. Not to say Lessard won't be back, but I think the odds of him returning are less than 50%. As nice as it'll be to get a high first rounder, we'd still be out a top 25 pick (Riki's 2nd) and how great will the difference be between those two players? For one (if you play the percentages), odds are the 2nd round pick is a guy that plays as an overager, which makes him a 5 year player. Very few high 1sts end up as 5 year players, some of them only 3 years. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather the 1st than the 2nd, but I don't think the difference between the two is as large as it first appears. You then look at MacMillian's trade value next winter. Next year, MacMillian figures to be a likely top 5 forward in the Q, possibly #1 if he can put his current troubles behind him and continue to develop the way he was. His trade value next year (a Memorial Cup year) would be through the roof. He's next year's Brad Marchand. The first rounder (actually, it's not even a straight up first...... it's a jump of about 20-25 picks) and either Clow or Mosher (or whoever) would be easily aquired by Halifax, and then some. If we were to move O'Connor and the 2nd to PEI for Lessard, and kept MacMillian...... Halifax would have a better team this year with MacMillian, and be without O'Connor, a 1st and a mid-level prospect. Well below what MacMillian would likely fetch at the deadline next year. It's not a roses deal for Halifax, but if MacMillian has asked to be traded to PEI, then it's certainly a good deal when factoring that in. For PEI, the deal makes a lot of sense if they plan on contending next season. If not, then they're basically hoping the difference in what they'd get for MacMillian next year, compared to Lessard this year, is greater than the prospect they'd give up in this deal, and the drop in the draft. I think your overrating MacMillan a bit when you say he will be a top 5 forward next year, maybe #1 forward.... and score like Marchand. He will be a great player in the mold of Samson, or Clendenning but with more offense. At best a "Cliche" type guy, solid 2 way guy and on-ice leader. He benefits alot from playing with Voracek in terms of points... now last year down the stretch, he was possibly our best forward, and hopefully he can regain that in this second half, assuming he returns. But I still don't see top 5 forward status, especially where he has yet to progress on last year and this illness may be pretty serious... I never said he'd score like Marchand..... I said he's next year's version of Marchand, in terms of the guy everybody wants at the trade dealine. Who in your opinion are ahead of MacMillian for next year, that project to be the best forwards? Dido, Pistili, Tessier, Doyle, Espo?........ I'd take MacMillian over all those guys right now, except maybe Dido, and the only ones I think are in the ballpark are Tessier and Dido. Of all the guys on that list, only Doyle and Pistili figure to be on possible sellers at Christmas. Doyle being 18 likely makes him unavailable. Pistili is 20, which limits his options, and if MacMillian is feeding off Voracek, what's Pistili doing with Giroux? |
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Dec 16, 2007 18:12:58 GMT -4
I think your overrating MacMillan a bit when you say he will be a top 5 forward next year, maybe #1 forward.... and score like Marchand. He will be a great player in the mold of Samson, or Clendenning but with more offense. At best a "Cliche" type guy, solid 2 way guy and on-ice leader. He benefits alot from playing with Voracek in terms of points... now last year down the stretch, he was possibly our best forward, and hopefully he can regain that in this second half, assuming he returns. But I still don't see top 5 forward status, especially where he has yet to progress on last year and this illness may be pretty serious... I never said he'd score like Marchand..... I said he's next year's version of Marchand, in terms of the guy everybody wants at the trade dealine. Who in your opinion are ahead of MacMillian for next year, that project to be the best forwards? Dido, Pistili, Tessier, Doyle, Espo?........ I'd take MacMillian over all those guys right now, except maybe Dido, and the only ones I think are in the ballpark are Tessier and Dido. Of all the guys on that list, only Doyle and Pistili figure to be on possible sellers at Christmas. Doyle being 18 likely makes him unavailable. Pistili is 20, which limits his options, and if MacMillian is feeding off Voracek, what's Pistili doing with Giroux? I just don't see his offensive potential being that of a top 5 forward... if your talking about top 5 "overall skill" forward then maybe, assuming he regains hsi form of last year and improves on it... but those guys arent usually demanding Marchand-like ransoms, the high end scorers or defense do. |
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Post by Murph on Dec 16, 2007 18:27:04 GMT -4
I never said he'd score like Marchand..... I said he's next year's version of Marchand, in terms of the guy everybody wants at the trade dealine. Who in your opinion are ahead of MacMillian for next year, that project to be the best forwards? Dido, Pistili, Tessier, Doyle, Espo?........ I'd take MacMillian over all those guys right now, except maybe Dido, and the only ones I think are in the ballpark are Tessier and Dido. Of all the guys on that list, only Doyle and Pistili figure to be on possible sellers at Christmas. Doyle being 18 likely makes him unavailable. Pistili is 20, which limits his options, and if MacMillian is feeding off Voracek, what's Pistili doing with Giroux? I just don't see his offensive potential being that of a top 5 forward... if your talking about top 5 "overall skill" forward then maybe, assuming he regains hsi form of last year and improves on it... but those guys arent usually demanding Marchand-like ransoms, the high end scorers or defense do. Who's your top 5 then? |
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Dec 16, 2007 18:36:48 GMT -4
I just don't see his offensive potential being that of a top 5 forward... if your talking about top 5 "overall skill" forward then maybe, assuming he regains hsi form of last year and improves on it... but those guys arent usually demanding Marchand-like ransoms, the high end scorers or defense do. Who's your top 5 then? I don't know, I'd have to go through the teams, and then there is always the handful of breakout players like Pare (just over PPG last year) and Dido have been this year. I just dont see MacMillan as having that high end offensive talent or skating to be one of the top 5 players in the league, even #1. He may be a great 2 way guy, but typically the guys who bring in Marchand value are the star snipers... So I'm not sure how the league will play out next year, for all we know Voracek and/or Perreault could be back... but I dont see MacMillan rising to the top of the league based on his skillset. Maybe I'll be wrong, but he's practically a year behind his development right now too and still questionable as to if he can regain his form. |
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Post by bigdog1x on Dec 16, 2007 19:49:41 GMT -4
If MacMillan wants to play for the rocket I can see Guy making a trade for him just a
a pay back favour for his father remember that they played on the same team together.
If Logan is having personal problems or fatigue it would be in his best intrest to be home and
playing for the rocket.
But i don't expect to see any big names going to the moose in return.
Like I said pay back an iou to his father.
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Post by Score on Dec 16, 2007 20:04:53 GMT -4
Unsure how true this rumor is.....as I imagine the Rocket will want Lessard for next season.
Unless they get a great offer, they'll hang on to Lessard.
Time for the Moose to anti up some??
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Post by lalalaprise on Dec 16, 2007 20:12:54 GMT -4
Unsure how true this rumor is.....as I imagine the Rocket will want Lessard for next season. Unless they get a great offer, they'll hang on to Lessard. Time for the Moose to anti up some?? There may also be something added if Lessard comes back at 20, like a 3rd or 4th rd pick... |
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Post by canbeer on Dec 16, 2007 20:19:30 GMT -4
Unsure how true this rumor is.....as I imagine the Rocket will want Lessard for next season. Unless they get a great offer, they'll hang on to Lessard. Time for the Moose to anti up some?? There may also be something added if Lessard comes back at 20, like a 3rd or 4th rd pick... I thought that was the part of future considerations you couldn't do anymore  I thought you couldn't now do what Moncton and Val D'or did with Bourdon... saying if he comes back you owe us more. |
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Post by lalalaprise on Dec 16, 2007 20:23:01 GMT -4
There may also be something added if Lessard comes back at 20, like a 3rd or 4th rd pick... I thought that was the part of future considerations you couldn't do anymore I thought you couldn't now do what Moncton and Val D'or did with Bourdon... saying if he comes back you owe us more. Its the Q, there are so many loop holes lol |
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Post by IslandersHKY on Dec 16, 2007 20:23:18 GMT -4
There may also be something added if Lessard comes back at 20, like a 3rd or 4th rd pick... I thought that was the part of future considerations you couldn't do anymore I thought you couldn't now do what Moncton and Val D'or did with Bourdon... saying if he comes back you owe us more. Other players can't be part of future considerations (like Samson was) but I believe draft picks still can. And a 3rd or 4th round pick isn't compensation is Lessard returns it would have to be higher than that. I agree with Score on this, Lessard is likely to return and will only be moved for a great offer. PEI doesn't need to move him so if Halifax wants him they will have to make a great offer. |
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Post by canbeer on Dec 16, 2007 20:30:21 GMT -4
This year is not looking like the rockets year and next year you'll be losing a ton of scoring. Even if Lessard is back next year, MacMillan will be worth at least twice as much as him or more next year. MacMillan had a rough start to this year but has still put up over a point per game and was top 10 among playoff scorers last year. I would think PEI would jump at the chance to pick him up but would be surprised if the Moose didn't see him as untouchable.
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Post by bois on Dec 16, 2007 20:30:34 GMT -4
i believe there is definitely some truth to this rumour.... would be great to see Logan finish his junior career on PEI
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I thought you couldn't now do what Moncton and Val D'or did with Bourdon... saying if he comes back you owe us more.
