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Trump
Nov 5, 2020 9:27:43 GMT -4
Post by lirette on Nov 5, 2020 9:27:43 GMT -4
Biden is on pace to have the most votes in the history of the united states of any candidate. So I dont really know how you reconcile that with being a terrible candidate. The Trump campaign turned out a ton of new votes though too, there is some obvious weakness here for the democrats that they need to figure out. Personally I was never excited about him, hes obviously a very "establishment" type. He grew on me and I see him as someone who restores decency to a platform that is one of the most influential in the world. Having a politican with zero empathy is a terrifying thing. I don't see how anyone could look at Biden and not see someone with empathy who actually cares about his constituents even if you don't agree with his policies or find him inpsiring in anyway. I believe there is much more excitement in a Biden Cabinet then Biden himself. He's looking at bringing progressives and moderates together to share ideas. He'll surround himself with competent people. The Trump administration and campaign on the other hand has what, 10+ people now indicted on federal or state charges on top of pending state investigations for Tax Fraud and Sexual Assault himself? Call me partisan or whatever, its fine. You have career apolitical people in roles like doctors or scientists who are being berated and replaced with sycophants. The current covid19 management is being led by a guy who has no experience in pandemics or diseases while the doctor who helped solved the aids crisis has been sidelined, received death threats and talks of being fired. I think if Biden wins, republicans still very much could win in 2024 if they find the right candidate. Also, not sure what the guy above is ranting about, maybe 1 poster predicted a landslide but I didnt see anyone else predicting that. The polls didnt really predict a landslide either. The national poll has no impact on predicting a landslide. Also polls are not votes, they give you possible outcomes. There might be something to the fact that trump supporting republicans might not be honest with pollsters though. The state by state polls had lots of close states when it came to the battlegrounds. I'm sure many "hoped" for a landslide so it was over early, but I certainly never expected a landslide personally. Biden just comes across as senile and dealing with onset dimentia. He is certainly a decent man but then you have to wonder about all the kid kissing and sniffing ... creepy. The high vote count is because Trump drove them to it, not Biden. They all just said ... anybody but Trump and Biden got the nod. I really think this election is much easier to win for the Dems if they had somebody younger and sensible rather than Biden, but the Dem Elite got it in their heads they needed Biden. All Biden had to do to win was not open his mouth and let Trump sink his own ship. He sort of did that because over the last few weeks you didn't hear much from him. Maybe that was the media's doing though as they figured he'd make himself look stupid if they gave him too much airtime, so they stopped showing media clips of him talking. I know the votes are not completely counted yet but it looks like he has it won, but that may not be determined for months now. I just hope that the media can move back toward something closer to being a bastion of the truth, than what they became trying to chase Trump out of office. That is not democracy when the media is skewing the truth, and hiding the truth. With Trump, they divided they together divided the country. They had a young moderate in Pete Buttigieg who hit a ton of categories (LGBTQ, Christian, Veteran) who models his speaking style like Obama, but in the primaries besides Iowa he could hardly drum up for than a few % points of the vote. He just has no name value, he likely has a chance in a couple cycles from now. Bernie has his rabid supporters but they didnt show up in the primaries either. The Biden senile stuff is overblown, most of it is the trump marketing that gets shared that around. There's a ton of misinformation that gets shared around to make it look a lot worse. Theres a specific clip that went viral in the summer where it shows Joe Biden sleeping during a talk show interview. But they literally swapped him into the interview with someone else. People fall for this stuff. I don't see how anyone who supports Trump could use Biden's health as a counterpoint. The Republicans love to ignore the fact that Biden overcame a stutter, so most of the time you hear him stumbling on words its his stutter. Watch Joe Biden's Gettysburg address unedited and then watch 1 of Trumps Rally's in full. You don't need to watch CNN or Fox or whatever to follow politics. You can watch politicians speak on cspan, youtube and many other places without analysis, you can read articles from a variety of quality sources and different journalists that aren't op-ed's and get the best information possible. Anyway, I still don't see how I could agree that Biden is a "terrible candidate" when he has broken the record for the most votes ever received. The turnout Trump is getting is a bigger factor to this being close.
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Trump
Nov 5, 2020 9:34:09 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 5, 2020 9:34:09 GMT -4
Trump spent the last 6 months railing over and over and over how mail in votes are fraudulent despite zero historical evidence. It should be of zero surprise that his voters would then not trust that method of voting despite there being little to no evidence that there's been fraud with mail in votes. It is an extremely secure system that is used by some states at 100% and has been used by the US Military for close to 100 years. I legitimately cannot believe people still fall for this conman. He has been telegraphing this in press conferences for months. Election ballots are looked at by both a democrat and republican to be certified. The polling data always showed that more democrats voted by mail by 2 or 3 to 1 in some areas. That information was available on many different media outlets not just CNN. Fox News Polls is calling the same information based on expected mail in ballots. All independant outlets from each other. There is no conspiracy here. They are counting the votes. This is going exactly the way it was expected all along, except trump seems to have gotten a greater turnout than expected and overperformed in places like the senate. Holding the Senate will severely hinder Bidens ability to pass legislation if he wins. The polls were off in certain areas but Biden could always win with a decent polling error. Both parties are turning out record numbers. The republicans did well with the latino vote which won them Florida. Trump tried to declare himself the winner of the election while many states were still up for grabs, disturbing leaders worldwide. This is not normal. But here we are still saying "both candidates suck" while democracy hangs in the balance. I should also add, that we'd have most of these results by now, but the republicans blocked the states we are waiting for from counting ballots early (like florida does). Some of these ballots have been received were weeks but they weren't allowed to count them. The truly stupid part of all of this is, in many GOP led states they mandated that early/mail in votes could ONLY be counted AFTER the Nov 3rd votes. trump knows this very well, but he is still trumpetting his BS theories about "vote showing up out of nowhere" when they update the results, thousand votes at a time. This is the case in Wisconsin, Michigan and Penn. that's why he went from leading on election day to losing once mail ins/early were counted(Penn TBD but getting tight, Georgia also). If anybody messed with the election it's Trump with his "mail in voting leads to fraud" BS...when his who family voted by mail! Plus naming Dejoy to lead the post office and intentionally slowing down mail delivery so some mail ins would get in late/past the deadlines and also to decrease voter confidence. The GOP has lost 7 of the last 8 elections and their game plan is voter suppression and gerrymandering...this was not invented by Trump but he's taken it to a new level by claiming they would have "poll watchers" who would be armed to reduce turnout in minority areas. I agree on the gerrymandering thing but this happens both ways. It is mainly to control the congress. You need to have the governors office or state legislature to do it. They redraw the electoral districts to efficiently total their vote to their party. As population shifts they need to redraw anyway. In many southern states you can see districts wind like snakes to capture certain voter concentrations and bypass others. But it also happens in states where democrats are in control. They all do it. Because they can. At this time Demicrats control the house. Congressional districts are determined either by state legislator or independent commission appointed by legislature or governor. Below shows how different states do it and if they have ways to make sure its non partisan. www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/who-draws-maps-legislative-and-congressional-redistricting
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Post by scotiahockey on Nov 5, 2020 9:37:43 GMT -4
People love to vocally hate Trump but the reality of the matter is that both candidates are awful. That’s going to lead to more people not vocalizing the fact they’ll vote for Trump and the polls making it seem like Biden would win in a cake walk. This is the 2nd time the Democratic Party has had a lob ball just waiting for them to hit a home run and they haven’t. That says a lot about their candidates IMO. If they actually had someone good running in either of these elections, they knock it out of the park. This is a literal coin flip at this point, I think Biden wins but I also wouldn’t bet my house on it like many would have 24 hours ago. Let's be serious here, you're drinking the Faux new Kool Aid here. Hillary Clinton had 40 years in politics being first lady, Secretary of state and senator. She is sharp as a tack. Joe Biden was Senator for many years and VP in one of the most successful presidencies in recent memory. He has a strong track record of getting things done and working with both sides. Both of those candidates are more qualified than Obama, Clinton(Bill) and GW Bush when they won the presidency, and on a different planet than Trump who was a failed business man and reality show host who's biggest political claim to fame is questioning the birth certificate of the first black US president. The problem with the Dems is that the mainstream media and non hardcore political followers get sucked in to the right wing propaganda machine mostly led by Trump constantly smearing whoever the Dems run. If that person isn't on Trump's level they try and make up scandals(Hunter Biden laptop, Clinton's e-mails) to bring the candidate to Trump's level to suppress or steal some of their votes. Biden isn't a GREAT candidate, mostly due to his age, but he is still 1,000 times more qualified to lead than a guy who let Covid run wild to protect the stock market numbers. First off, I’m not drinking any Kool Aid. I can have my opinion that neither Clinton nor Biden were great candidates and suck. Being in something for a long time, while giving you experience and making you qualified doesn’t make you the right person for the job. I don’t feel either one of them was or is. Biden is too old, he’s a horrible speaker and traditionally talks himself into trouble. While I think he’s a better candidate than Trump is, I don’t think he’s “the guy”. He’s certainly more qualified to lead then Trump is but again that’s not saying a lot. It’s very clear that you’re very left leaning and unlikely to change your opinion on anything that goes against that and that’s fine. Basically to sum it up. I think Clinton sucks, I think Biden sucks, I think Trump sucks. I think Biden sucks less than Trump does and for that reason, he’d get my vote if I had one. I think he’ll have a fine, albeit short presidency, as this election was all about beating Trump. He did that and I doubt he lasts 4 years, let alone run again. All of these things can be true, without me drinking any “Kool Aid” or being sucked in by the right wing propaganda machine. Some people do form their own opinions on things and don’t dig their heels in on one side or the other just because it goes a certain way, ie: you.
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Trump
Nov 5, 2020 9:43:04 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 5, 2020 9:43:04 GMT -4
The truly stupid part of all of this is, in many GOP led states they mandated that early/mail in votes could ONLY be counted AFTER the Nov 3rd votes. trump knows this very well, but he is still trumpetting his BS theories about "vote showing up out of nowhere" when they update the results, thousand votes at a time. This is the case in Wisconsin, Michigan and Penn. that's why he went from leading on election day to losing once mail ins/early were counted(Penn TBD but getting tight, Georgia also). If anybody messed with the election it's Trump with his "mail in voting leads to fraud" BS...when his who family voted by mail! Plus naming Dejoy to lead the post office and intentionally slowing down mail delivery so some mail ins would get in late/past the deadlines and also to decrease voter confidence. The GOP has lost 7 of the last 8 elections and their game plan is voter suppression and gerrymandering...this was not invented by Trump but he's taken it to a new level by claiming they would have "poll watchers" who would be armed to reduce turnout in minority areas. I agree on the gerrymandering thing but this happens both ways. It is mainly to control the congress. You need to have the governors office or state legislature to do it. They redraw the electoral districts to efficiently total their vote to their party. As population shifts they need to redraw anyway. In many southern states you can see districts wind like snakes to capture certain voter concentrations and bypass others. But it also happens in states where democrats are in control. They all do it. Because they can. At this time Demicrats control the house. Congressional districts are determined either by state legislator or independent commission appointed by legislature or governor. Below shows how different states do it and if they have ways to make sure its non partisan. www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/who-draws-maps-legislative-and-congressional-redistrictingThat's a huge advantage with the system in Canada, the elections and districts are determined by a separate, independent body and so are the election rules and administration. Having 50 states do elections differently in terms of polling locations(having few in minority areas) and different early and vote by mail rules...nuts.
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Trump
Nov 5, 2020 9:45:33 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 5, 2020 9:45:33 GMT -4
Considering how the election finished and how close. And most voters ever. Trump made lots of stupid calls but the one that hurt him most was strategic.
He should have held his supreme court nomination as collateral to drive votes. Republicans didnt want to lose the opportunity to put a conservative justice. He possibly won the last election by driving the liberal justice fear. He should have doubled down and it would have towed some Republicans who didnt vote him to do so just to protect the court.
It may have forced Biden to say who he would nominate. (Would possibly divide the left side of party which did happen in Hillarys run) And it would have been a big ballot question.
He almost won anyway but I'm sure there are 3 million Romney/Bush type republicans out there that would of had to engage in the election. They sat on sidelines. Its risky (could backfire) but I cant see how it could push more democrats to vote than did.
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Trump
Nov 5, 2020 9:48:10 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 5, 2020 9:48:10 GMT -4
I agree on the gerrymandering thing but this happens both ways. It is mainly to control the congress. You need to have the governors office or state legislature to do it. They redraw the electoral districts to efficiently total their vote to their party. As population shifts they need to redraw anyway. In many southern states you can see districts wind like snakes to capture certain voter concentrations and bypass others. But it also happens in states where democrats are in control. They all do it. Because they can. At this time Demicrats control the house. Congressional districts are determined either by state legislator or independent commission appointed by legislature or governor. Below shows how different states do it and if they have ways to make sure its non partisan. www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/who-draws-maps-legislative-and-congressional-redistrictingThat's a huge advantage with the system in Canada, the elections and districts are determined by a separate, independent body and so are the election rules and administration. Having 50 states do elections differently in terms of polling locations(having few in minority areas) and different early and vote by mail rules...nuts. the Canadian system is also fraught with partisan tinkering. I'm not sure there is a way to do it with MPs or MLAs on the committee that is fair. It really needs to be done in open and with common folk off the street. *** from wikipedia "2006 the provincial government of Prince Edward Island was accused of gerrymandering after it rejected the independent boundary commission's report and instead proposed a new map that would have seen the cities of Charlottetown and Summerside each gain one additional seat, with two fewer seats allocated to rural areas of the province. The alternate map gave every incumbent member of the governing party a "safe" seat to run in, while the original report would have forced some of the party's MLAs to compete against each other in nomination contests. In Alberta too gerrymandering was an issue, when the provincial Conservative government ignored the report of the independent boundary commission in 1991/2. The changes it did bring in were instrumental in losing two NDP seats (Ewasiuk's and Martin's). As well, the Social Credit government's move away from multi-member constituencies (and the STV) in 1957 was an attempt (successful for a decade) to retain power.
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Trump
Nov 5, 2020 9:54:57 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 5, 2020 9:54:57 GMT -4
Let's be serious here, you're drinking the Faux new Kool Aid here. Hillary Clinton had 40 years in politics being first lady, Secretary of state and senator. She is sharp as a tack. Joe Biden was Senator for many years and VP in one of the most successful presidencies in recent memory. He has a strong track record of getting things done and working with both sides. Both of those candidates are more qualified than Obama, Clinton(Bill) and GW Bush when they won the presidency, and on a different planet than Trump who was a failed business man and reality show host who's biggest political claim to fame is questioning the birth certificate of the first black US president. The problem with the Dems is that the mainstream media and non hardcore political followers get sucked in to the right wing propaganda machine mostly led by Trump constantly smearing whoever the Dems run. If that person isn't on Trump's level they try and make up scandals(Hunter Biden laptop, Clinton's e-mails) to bring the candidate to Trump's level to suppress or steal some of their votes. Biden isn't a GREAT candidate, mostly due to his age, but he is still 1,000 times more qualified to lead than a guy who let Covid run wild to protect the stock market numbers. First off, I’m not drinking any Kool Aid. I can have my opinion that neither Clinton nor Biden were great candidates and suck. Being in something for a long time, while giving you experience and making you qualified doesn’t make you the right person for the job. I don’t feel either one of them was or is. Biden is too old, he’s a horrible speaker and traditionally talks himself into trouble. While I think he’s a better candidate than Trump is, I don’t think he’s “the guy”. He’s certainly more qualified to lead then Trump is but again that’s not saying a lot. It’s very clear that you’re very left leaning and unlikely to change your opinion on anything that goes against that and that’s fine. Basically to sum it up. I think Clinton sucks, I think Biden sucks, I think Trump sucks. I think Biden sucks less than Trump does and for that reason, he’d get my vote if I had one. I think he’ll have a fine, albeit short presidency, as this election was all about beating Trump. He did that and I doubt he lasts 4 years, let alone run again. All of these things can be true, without me drinking any “Kool Aid” or being sucked in by the right wing propaganda machine. Some people do form their own opinions on things and don’t dig their heels in on one side or the other just because it goes a certain way, ie: you. Ultimately the job of president in the US is hard but not that complex... You need a person that has lived, has had ups and downs and won't get rattled by a crisis, you need someone that can speak to their voters and the others side when needed. You need somebody that has experience in politics and know how to get things done in Washington. You need someone that can be tough with dictators like Putin, Edogan and KJU. You also need someone that will surround themselves with smart people and let them do their job. You need to be there for the right reasons, not to line your friends' pockets. Those things are not left or right leaning. Biden isn't the greatest speaker because he had a stutter, still a guy that can get in front of a crowd and speak to both sides on any topic. He isn't Trump who had 5 to 10 lines that he recycles and then runs out of material.
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Trump
Nov 5, 2020 9:58:41 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 5, 2020 9:58:41 GMT -4
That's a huge advantage with the system in Canada, the elections and districts are determined by a separate, independent body and so are the election rules and administration. Having 50 states do elections differently in terms of polling locations(having few in minority areas) and different early and vote by mail rules...nuts. the Canadian system is also fraught with partisan tinkering. I'm not sure there is a way to do it with MPs or MLAs on the committee that is fair. It really needs to be done in open and with common folk off the street. *** from wikipedia "2006 the provincial government of Prince Edward Island was accused of gerrymandering after it rejected the independent boundary commission's report and instead proposed a new map that would have seen the cities of Charlottetown and Summerside each gain one additional seat, with two fewer seats allocated to rural areas of the province. The alternate map gave every incumbent member of the governing party a "safe" seat to run in, while the original report would have forced some of the party's MLAs to compete against each other in nomination contests. In Alberta too gerrymandering was an issue, when the provincial Conservative government ignored the report of the independent boundary commission in 1991/2. The changes it did bring in were instrumental in losing two NDP seats (Ewasiuk's and Martin's). As well, the Social Credit government's move away from multi-member constituencies (and the STV) in 1957 was an attempt (successful for a decade) to retain power. Again, there are no perfect system, but the US is banana republic level in terms of the stuff that happens in their elections. In what other country would a candidate actively work to suppress the vote and it's not even front page news. Trump did not invent this, it started with Gingrich in the late 90's but Trump took it to whole new and dangerous level this year.
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Trump
Nov 5, 2020 10:07:06 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 5, 2020 10:07:06 GMT -4
He doesnt even want them to count the vote. Which is ridiculous
But the system appears to have worked. Everyone that wanted a ballot had access to one. This year with voting spread out we didnt hear of people being turned away like other years. We just dont know if people got ballots that were not supposed to. Usually there is a hiccup or two. Dead people have voted or been on voting lists in past. I cant believe someone is upset that too many people voted.
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Trump
Nov 5, 2020 10:10:45 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 5, 2020 10:10:45 GMT -4
He doesnt even want them to count the vote. Which is ridiculous But the system appears to have worked. Everyone that wanted a ballot had access to one. This year with voting spread out we didnt hear of people being turned away like other years. We just dont know if people got ballots that were not supposed to. Usually there is a hiccup or two. Dead people have voted or been on voting lists in past. I cant believe someone is upset that too many people voted. The part that may have worked for him in mail in ballots stuck in the USPS after he hired Dejoy to mess with service, another despot strategy that no other president, maybe outside of Nixon, would have attempted. There is talk that mail in voting hurt the Dems in Florida and other states. www.politico.com/news/2020/11/03/judge-postal-service-unsent-ballots-433958I think this is one of the many thing that if Biden wins his DOJ should be looking at.
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Trump
Nov 5, 2020 10:16:02 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 5, 2020 10:16:02 GMT -4
If you vote by mail on October 20 but die by coronavirus on Oct 27, does your vote still count?
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Post by lirette on Nov 5, 2020 10:19:24 GMT -4
If you vote by mail on October 20 but die by coronavirus on Oct 27, does your vote still count? Like many other things its a state-by-state law that determines that. So some states yes some states no. It is so much easier to understand here in Canada because we have Elections Canada that manages everything.
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Trump
Nov 5, 2020 14:50:41 GMT -4
Post by lirette on Nov 5, 2020 14:50:41 GMT -4
Things seem to be going well at the Trump Campaign as he retweets a prominent radio hosts suggestion that the state electors should go rogue in the states that Trump lost, and elect Trump anyway. Donald Trump does not like democracy.
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Trump
Nov 5, 2020 15:19:16 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 5, 2020 15:19:16 GMT -4
Things seem to be going well at the Trump Campaign as he retweets a prominent radio hosts suggestion that the state electors should go rogue in the states that Trump lost, and elect Trump anyway. Donald Trump does not like democracy. Trump knows nothing illegal has occurred, he is just gaslighting to keep his fans engaged and to save face. His fragile little snowflake ego wouldn't allow him to admit he lost.
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Trump
Nov 6, 2020 8:50:48 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 6, 2020 8:50:48 GMT -4
Biden has taken the lead in Georgia...
Edit...now in Penn.
Biden could get to 306 EC Votes...that would probably quiet trump...a bit...since he can't point to one in one state.
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