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Trump
Nov 9, 2020 9:53:42 GMT -4
Post by lirette on Nov 9, 2020 9:53:42 GMT -4
Trump is losing his insiders. Most are more interested in their own futures - they are facing unemployment and need to secure their next gig. Guiliani and most of his ilk are playing to the Trump base. They know it's not going anywhere but they are putting on the brave fight so they can look like they did something. Those guys need to not burn bridges to tap into 2024 for future political runs. It is hilarious that Trump said "there was a vaccine close possibly by end if the year" and the media called him a "liar". Its apparently now the lead story if the news day (Nov 9) that the Pfizer vaccine is expecting 50 million doses ready by year end global. The guys on CNN Sanjay Gupta "this is the first I heard about this - I didnt know anything about this that they were this close" This is not a good look for media that this was this close and nobody had details which the White House probably did know. Yet could call out the liar. I do not believe Pfizer was holding this detail for political reasons. I think they were not ready even two weeks ago to say what they are today. If Trump had known this he surely would have trumped it more. Nothing like good campaign news. This will get the Trump base attention. Tts worth noting Pfizer distanced themselves from "Operation Warp Speed". Meaning they took on more risk themselves and didn't take any additional funding from the US Government. They may not be communicating with them at the same levels as the other companies. They did award them a contract, but not the same funding as the other companies. Also, its entirely a grey area on what available by the end of the year means. This vaccine still needs to wait longer to confirm safety, and even then would only be available for emergency use. You are still 6-12 months of manufacturing from having this available to public at any sort of meaningful scale. Encouraging news though. On the other points, yes, they continue to all go on TV, say there's fraud, present no evidence, some of the base eats it up. Trumps running out of money, his campaign fundraising emails about the election have a fine print in them that 60% of the donation can be used to pay off campaign debt. It is always a grift with these guys, its all they know how to do. It is no shock he would try take his disinformation campaign back into his rallies on the road. Try and make a few extra bucks and boost his ego from the election loss.
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Trump
Nov 9, 2020 14:34:14 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 9, 2020 14:34:14 GMT -4
Trump is losing his insiders. Most are more interested in their own futures - they are facing unemployment and need to secure their next gig. Guiliani and most of his ilk are playing to the Trump base. They know it's not going anywhere but they are putting on the brave fight so they can look like they did something. Those guys need to not burn bridges to tap into 2024 for future political runs. It is hilarious that Trump said "there was a vaccine close possibly by end if the year" and the media called him a "liar". Its apparently now the lead story if the news day (Nov 9) that the Pfizer vaccine is expecting 50 million doses ready by year end global. The guys on CNN Sanjay Gupta "this is the first I heard about this - I didnt know anything about this that they were this close" This is not a good look for media that this was this close and nobody had details which the White House probably did know. Yet could call out the liar. I do not believe Pfizer was holding this detail for political reasons. I think they were not ready even two weeks ago to say what they are today. If Trump had known this he surely would have trumped it more. Nothing like good campaign news. This will get the Trump base attention. www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/pfizer-says-early-data-signals-covid-19-vaccine-is-effective-1.5180541I think you're getting ahead of yourself, they are basically saying that there are a lot of positive signs, that's a long way from having 500 million units ready for the public. They need to finish their study then have their findings reviewed by a peer group to make sure they didn't take shortcuts and it actually works, that takes time. The major issue in the US is disinformation about social distancing and mask use. It started with Trump and his cronies in March(just listen to the Woodward tapes) then spread to others. They could have saved up to 150k lives had they taken this seriously, a vaccine could take up to 18 months to be distributed(from Feb/March) when it first hit. the article posted what Bloomberg News says. And what Gov Cuomo of NY is saying. This says tens of thousands of volunteers have been given this. They seem really concerned some Americans will be able to access this before Biden gets in. Something I doubt as there are other countries that have dibs on those first 500 million batches. www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-11-09/states-trying-to-fix-trump-s-flawed-vaccine-plan-cuomo-says?__twitter_impression=true
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Trump
Nov 9, 2020 22:10:38 GMT -4
Post by themandalorian on Nov 9, 2020 22:10:38 GMT -4
I am sure the democrats are quite happy with their selection of Biden today. There is also lots of data out there from the votes, that many republicans voted for the republican senators, replublican congress, but voted Biden for President. You could say those are votes against Trump, and they very much are, but you still needed someone that they were comfortable voting for. It would be interesting to see how differently this election would have been received had they just counted the mail in ballots first like they wanted to in many states. Just my opinion of course but these "Republicans" that voted Biden for President will have no right to complain if
1) Their taxes go up 2) Their incomes don't increase as much as they have 3) illegal immigration increases again 4) Their local and state police are defunded.
5) They lose their jobs because of tax increases and/or increases in regulations or Biden just bows over for Xi Jinping.
6) The Middle East becomes even more dangerous because Biden lets Iran off the hook- the $$ Iran got has been spent funding the civil war in Yemen and it is almost time for Hamas and/or Hezbollah to start another war with Israel.
7) Their suburban neighborhoods are burned down by the Antifa/BLM thugs.
8) Their cost of living goes up because of Biden's climate change policies.
If we had the same system here it would be akin to me voting Conservative for my MP, MLA and Premier but then going absolute dingbat and voting Trudeau for PM. I get it, Trump is an asshole, a mean-spirited human being but there is a saying , "You don't bring a knife to a gun fight." I don't think any Republican would have defeated Obama in 2008 or 2012 but McCain and Romney were terrible candidates who didn't share true conservative beliefs and didn't understand or care what a lot of Trump supporters believe in.
I do commend Biden for holding out an olive branch to Trump supporters though, it is a great gesture that is really needed right now.
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Trump
Nov 9, 2020 22:18:58 GMT -4
Post by themandalorian on Nov 9, 2020 22:18:58 GMT -4
I think Fox News is going to pay a price, there is lots of chatter online from Trumpers going completely unhinged about how they will never watch FNC again. They blame Wallace in the first debate, they hate Paul Ryan for bringing in Donna Brazile, they hate Judge Napolitano, Juan Williams, Martha MacCallum for having Buttigieg and Swalwell on all the time and never challenging them. Most of them are saying they won't even watch Tucker, Hannity or Laura, they will watch online so those shows don't get ratings.
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Trump
Nov 9, 2020 22:42:45 GMT -4
via mobile
Citris likes this
Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 9, 2020 22:42:45 GMT -4
I think Fox News is going to pay a price, there is lots of chatter online from Trumpers going completely unhinged about how they will never watch FNC again. They blame Wallace in the first debate, they hate Paul Ryan for bringing in Donna Brazile, they hate Judge Napolitano, Juan Williams, Martha MacCallum for having Buttigieg and Swalwell on all the time and never challenging them. Most of them are saying they won't even watch Tucker, Hannity or Laura, they will watch online so those shows don't get ratings.
nothing like shooting the messenger - these people were fed their ideas and thoughts out of what Fox News gave them daily. Fox News to their credit are only reporting the obvious here with election results. Fox News gave up on Arizona before other media. These people don't really want news they want validation of what they think. News (even Fox) cant give them that.
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Post by Citris on Nov 10, 2020 1:16:58 GMT -4
1) Their taxes go up 2) Their incomes don't increase as much as they have 3) illegal immigration increases again 4) Their local and state police are defunded.
5) They lose their jobs because of tax increases and/or increases in regulations or Biden just bows over for Xi Jinping.
6) The Middle East becomes even more dangerous because Biden lets Iran off the hook- the $$ Iran got has been spent funding the civil war in Yemen and it is almost time for Hamas and/or Hezbollah to start another war with Israel.
7) Their suburban neighborhoods are burned down by the Antifa/BLM thugs.
8) Their cost of living goes up because of Biden's climate change policies.
Trump does more closely represent the values of the American right than previous candidates, which is a massive condemnation of the American (and honestly global?) right. But, to address some points 1) Their taxes will go up, unless you're extremely wealthy, but due to 2017 tax cuts and jobs act passed by Trump. The Republicans hid an incremental tax increase in there (but not for the rich, only for the working class) that would only kick in AFTER his first term was over. Republicans have never been the party of "lower taxes", not for you anyway. They lower taxes for billionaires and run a deficit that the Democrats have to fix. 2) What Republican policy would increase your wages? Most Republicans are against a 15$ minimum wage and as for higher paying jobs, theirs no indication that those wages would increase. 3) Illegal Immigrants have actually been leaving the country since about 2007. The "Illegal Immigration" thing is a fearmongering tactic used to appeal to the insecure white voters, and anyone who voted Biden over Trump would care more about.... well let's be honest, probably "civility" and "respectability" over that. (Obviously there's a ton more to say about this topic but.. that's a whole rabbit hole I don't really care to go down." 4) Defunding the police is not disbanding the police. It's simply cutting out wasteful spending (Police don't need tanks and experimental sonic weapons) and reallocating it where it's needed more. 90% of police calls are stuff that doesn't at all require an armed officer, traffic stops, domestic disputes, etc. The argument with defunding the police is that a lot of this stuff could be handled by social workers who aren't armed and trained to immediately escalate situations to lethal violence. Armed police need better training, sure, but there doesn't need to be nearly as many and they have to get rid of this terrifying warrior training bullshit. (Check this out on like, how messed up police training can be and how much we REALLY need to do better.) 5) Baseless speculation. Shifting toward green energy actually has and will continue to create Jobs (and good paying jobs. Keep in mind just because Unemployment is low, it doesn't mean underemployment is low. Plenty of people work jobs that they can't live off of because of poor wages or few hours or both.) 6) Again baseless speculation. I honestly don't expect foreign policy to change very much as both Biden and Trump seem to be more at the mercy of their military advisors. 7) Which party do you think is more likely to actually end these protests? The Republican party that ignores their concerns, demonizes them, sends militias in unmarked vans to surpress them etc? Or would it be the Democratic party.... which... okay, is by no means perfect, but may actually be willing to take steps toward (at least optically) addressing issues of systematic racism and police brutality. Side note, I know where you get your news from now, but, nothing is on fire. Protesters aren't thugs. Violence and looting are pretty rare considering the historic size of the protests. Also, you realize you're repeating the same talking points as the people who were against the civil rights movement right? Don't be on the wrong side of history. 8) Again, this isn't borne out by any empirical data. First off, it's laughable to suggest that Joe Biden is radical on Climate Change. Secondly, we spend far more subsidizing the fossil fuel industry than we ever have on Green Energy. America USED to be the most innovative country in the world, which lead largely to its wealth and global dominance, but now, because they're beholden to oil billionaires, the country is stagnating, and unless something changes, China is going to take over as the world superpower. There's a lot of anti-green energy propaganda out there (which coincidentally benefits some of the wealthiest people in the country, I wonder if there's a connection there?) but actually investing in green energy and being at the forefront of that technology would mean that eventually, other countries would have to buy that tech from the US. Fossil fuels are a dying industry, time to look to the future. (The future which incidentally rich ghouls don't really care if we have or not.) Anyway I was hoping we were done with pro Trump nonsense after certain posters earned themselves bans but, I guess not. I don't super want to argue, I just don't like letting conservatives claim that they're the party of responsible economics or whatever because they objectively are not. They don't do anything for anyone except for the 1%. This is a big reason why Trump loves the stock market, because it's numbers that go up that he can point to even tho the people see no benefit from it. Meanwhile corporations are posting record profits and having to pay very little of it in Taxes. PS - At least you can recognize the openly fascist elements of the party are unhinged, I will give you that. PPS - Uhhh this post comes off super pro Democrat, and, while I do recognize them as a far, FAR superior option to the Republican party, which is actively harmful and proto-fascist (that's being generous.), I'd also acknowledge a house cat or plank of wood as a better option for President, as at least it wouldn't be actively trying to do harm to people or take away their rights. That said the Democrats are still not great. They're also in the pockets of Billionaires, they're more concerned with appearances than actual policy etc. Let's just say I really hope they're held to account over the next 4 years to actually move the country left and not fencepost.
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Trump
Nov 10, 2020 5:56:38 GMT -4
Post by themandalorian on Nov 10, 2020 5:56:38 GMT -4
1) Their taxes go up 2) Their incomes don't increase as much as they have 3) illegal immigration increases again 4) Their local and state police are defunded.
5) They lose their jobs because of tax increases and/or increases in regulations or Biden just bows over for Xi Jinping.
6) The Middle East becomes even more dangerous because Biden lets Iran off the hook- the $$ Iran got has been spent funding the civil war in Yemen and it is almost time for Hamas and/or Hezbollah to start another war with Israel.
7) Their suburban neighborhoods are burned down by the Antifa/BLM thugs.
8) Their cost of living goes up because of Biden's climate change policies.
Trump does more closely represent the values of the American right than previous candidates, which is a massive condemnation of the American (and honestly global?) right. But, to address some points 1) Their taxes will go up, unless you're extremely wealthy, but due to 2017 tax cuts and jobs act passed by Trump. The Republicans hid an incremental tax increase in there (but not for the rich, only for the working class) that would only kick in AFTER his first term was over. Republicans have never been the party of "lower taxes", not for you anyway. They lower taxes for billionaires and run a deficit that the Democrats have to fix. 2) What Republican policy would increase your wages? Most Republicans are against a 15$ minimum wage and as for higher paying jobs, theirs no indication that those wages would increase. 3) Illegal Immigrants have actually been leaving the country since about 2007. The "Illegal Immigration" thing is a fearmongering tactic used to appeal to the insecure white voters, and anyone who voted Biden over Trump would care more about.... well let's be honest, probably "civility" and "respectability" over that. (Obviously there's a ton more to say about this topic but.. that's a whole rabbit hole I don't really care to go down." 4) Defunding the police is not disbanding the police. It's simply cutting out wasteful spending (Police don't need tanks and experimental sonic weapons) and reallocating it where it's needed more. 90% of police calls are stuff that doesn't at all require an armed officer, traffic stops, domestic disputes, etc. The argument with defunding the police is that a lot of this stuff could be handled by social workers who aren't armed and trained to immediately escalate situations to lethal violence. Armed police need better training, sure, but there doesn't need to be nearly as many and they have to get rid of this terrifying warrior training bullshit. (Check this out on like, how messed up police training can be and how much we REALLY need to do better.) 5) Baseless speculation. Shifting toward green energy actually has and will continue to create Jobs (and good paying jobs. Keep in mind just because Unemployment is low, it doesn't mean underemployment is low. Plenty of people work jobs that they can't live off of because of poor wages or few hours or both.) 6) Again baseless speculation. I honestly don't expect foreign policy to change very much as both Biden and Trump seem to be more at the mercy of their military advisors. 7) Which party do you think is more likely to actually end these protests? The Republican party that ignores their concerns, demonizes them, sends militias in unmarked vans to surpress them etc? Or would it be the Democratic party.... which... okay, is by no means perfect, but may actually be willing to take steps toward (at least optically) addressing issues of systematic racism and police brutality. Side note, I know where you get your news from now, but, nothing is on fire. Protesters aren't thugs. Violence and looting are pretty rare considering the historic size of the protests. Also, you realize you're repeating the same talking points as the people who were against the civil rights movement right? Don't be on the wrong side of history. 8) Again, this isn't borne out by any empirical data. First off, it's laughable to suggest that Joe Biden is radical on Climate Change. Secondly, we spend far more subsidizing the fossil fuel industry than we ever have on Green Energy. America USED to be the most innovative country in the world, which lead largely to its wealth and global dominance, but now, because they're beholden to oil billionaires, the country is stagnating, and unless something changes, China is going to take over as the world superpower. There's a lot of anti-green energy propaganda out there (which coincidentally benefits some of the wealthiest people in the country, I wonder if there's a connection there?) but actually investing in green energy and being at the forefront of that technology would mean that eventually, other countries would have to buy that tech from the US. Fossil fuels are a dying industry, time to look to the future. (The future which incidentally rich ghouls don't really care if we have or not.) Anyway I was hoping we were done with pro Trump nonsense after certain posters earned themselves bans but, I guess not. I don't super want to argue, I just don't like letting conservatives claim that they're the party of responsible economics or whatever because they objectively are not. They don't do anything for anyone except for the 1%. This is a big reason why Trump loves the stock market, because it's numbers that go up that he can point to even tho the people see no benefit from it. Meanwhile corporations are posting record profits and having to pay very little of it in Taxes. PS - At least you can recognize the openly fascist elements of the party are unhinged, I will give you that. PPS - Uhhh this post comes off super pro Democrat, and, while I do recognize them as a far, FAR superior option to the Republican party, which is actively harmful and proto-fascist (that's being generous.), I'd also acknowledge a house cat or plank of wood as a better option for President, as at least it wouldn't be actively trying to do harm to people or take away their rights. That said the Democrats are still not great. They're also in the pockets of Billionaires, they're more concerned with appearances than actual policy etc. Let's just say I really hope they're held to account over the next 4 years to actually move the country left and not fencepost. You missed the key word when you read my post and copied it... IF
- just because someone is right of center doesn't mean they are fascist, you don't know what real fascists are. My great uncle fought them in WW2 in Italy. The closest thing we have to real fascists nowadays are ironically the kids who say they are against fascism but burn down buildings, beat up people in the streets etc then return to their basements once confronted by people with guns to defend themselves.
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Trump
Nov 10, 2020 6:31:46 GMT -4
Post by themandalorian on Nov 10, 2020 6:31:46 GMT -4
1) Their taxes go up 2) Their incomes don't increase as much as they have 3) illegal immigration increases again 4) Their local and state police are defunded.
5) They lose their jobs because of tax increases and/or increases in regulations or Biden just bows over for Xi Jinping.
6) The Middle East becomes even more dangerous because Biden lets Iran off the hook- the $$ Iran got has been spent funding the civil war in Yemen and it is almost time for Hamas and/or Hezbollah to start another war with Israel.
7) Their suburban neighborhoods are burned down by the Antifa/BLM thugs.
8) Their cost of living goes up because of Biden's climate change policies.
Trump does more closely represent the values of the American right than previous candidates, which is a massive condemnation of the American (and honestly global?) right. But, to address some points 1) Their taxes will go up, unless you're extremely wealthy, but due to 2017 tax cuts and jobs act passed by Trump. The Republicans hid an incremental tax increase in there (but not for the rich, only for the working class) that would only kick in AFTER his first term was over. Republicans have never been the party of "lower taxes", not for you anyway. They lower taxes for billionaires and run a deficit that the Democrats have to fix. 2) What Republican policy would increase your wages? Most Republicans are against a 15$ minimum wage and as for higher paying jobs, theirs no indication that those wages would increase. 3) Illegal Immigrants have actually been leaving the country since about 2007. The "Illegal Immigration" thing is a fearmongering tactic used to appeal to the insecure white voters, and anyone who voted Biden over Trump would care more about.... well let's be honest, probably "civility" and "respectability" over that. (Obviously there's a ton more to say about this topic but.. that's a whole rabbit hole I don't really care to go down." 4) Defunding the police is not disbanding the police. It's simply cutting out wasteful spending (Police don't need tanks and experimental sonic weapons) and reallocating it where it's needed more. 90% of police calls are stuff that doesn't at all require an armed officer, traffic stops, domestic disputes, etc. The argument with defunding the police is that a lot of this stuff could be handled by social workers who aren't armed and trained to immediately escalate situations to lethal violence. Armed police need better training, sure, but there doesn't need to be nearly as many and they have to get rid of this terrifying warrior training bullshit. (Check this out on like, how messed up police training can be and how much we REALLY need to do better.) 5) Baseless speculation. Shifting toward green energy actually has and will continue to create Jobs (and good paying jobs. Keep in mind just because Unemployment is low, it doesn't mean underemployment is low. Plenty of people work jobs that they can't live off of because of poor wages or few hours or both.) 6) Again baseless speculation. I honestly don't expect foreign policy to change very much as both Biden and Trump seem to be more at the mercy of their military advisors. 7) Which party do you think is more likely to actually end these protests? The Republican party that ignores their concerns, demonizes them, sends militias in unmarked vans to surpress them etc? Or would it be the Democratic party.... which... okay, is by no means perfect, but may actually be willing to take steps toward (at least optically) addressing issues of systematic racism and police brutality. Side note, I know where you get your news from now, but, nothing is on fire. Protesters aren't thugs. Violence and looting are pretty rare considering the historic size of the protests. Also, you realize you're repeating the same talking points as the people who were against the civil rights movement right? Don't be on the wrong side of history. 8) Again, this isn't borne out by any empirical data. First off, it's laughable to suggest that Joe Biden is radical on Climate Change. Secondly, we spend far more subsidizing the fossil fuel industry than we ever have on Green Energy. America USED to be the most innovative country in the world, which lead largely to its wealth and global dominance, but now, because they're beholden to oil billionaires, the country is stagnating, and unless something changes, China is going to take over as the world superpower. There's a lot of anti-green energy propaganda out there (which coincidentally benefits some of the wealthiest people in the country, I wonder if there's a connection there?) but actually investing in green energy and being at the forefront of that technology would mean that eventually, other countries would have to buy that tech from the US. Fossil fuels are a dying industry, time to look to the future. (The future which incidentally rich ghouls don't really care if we have or not.) Anyway I was hoping we were done with pro Trump nonsense after certain posters earned themselves bans but, I guess not. I don't super want to argue, I just don't like letting conservatives claim that they're the party of responsible economics or whatever because they objectively are not. They don't do anything for anyone except for the 1%. This is a big reason why Trump loves the stock market, because it's numbers that go up that he can point to even tho the people see no benefit from it. Meanwhile corporations are posting record profits and having to pay very little of it in Taxes. PS - At least you can recognize the openly fascist elements of the party are unhinged, I will give you that. PPS - Uhhh this post comes off super pro Democrat, and, while I do recognize them as a far, FAR superior option to the Republican party, which is actively harmful and proto-fascist (that's being generous.), I'd also acknowledge a house cat or plank of wood as a better option for President, as at least it wouldn't be actively trying to do harm to people or take away their rights. That said the Democrats are still not great. They're also in the pockets of Billionaires, they're more concerned with appearances than actual policy etc. Let's just say I really hope they're held to account over the next 4 years to actually move the country left and not fencepost. I'm actually for a green energy shift and that, despite what Trump has said, has been happening under Trump with his Department of Energy with the allocations of money ironically for the most part being under Rick Perry who wanted to close the U.S. Department of Energy. I see a future with green hydrogen, concentrated solar power/thermal storage and electric vehicles solving the climate change crisis. The issue I take with most Democrats/Liberals is the path to get there- right now there is a chasm between where we are versus the future I just alluded to. Oil and gas are the bridge or at least a part of it as usage of them keeps energy prices low so the lower and middle class can actually survive and contribute to the economy. Oil and gas are still a part of the energy grid until we can get to a point where the trifecta I noted above are available at a price the population can afford.
China - the saving grace with respect to them and for the world being oppressed by them fully is their one child policy, they have a demographic time bomb coming. I hope Biden was serious when he said a couple weeks ago he would lead a coalition to counter China. Trump talked the talk, fought a trade war but didn't lead a coalition and exited TPP which was/is ( in a different name now) formed for the basic purpose of a front against China. Hopefully he can get India and Indonesia to join as well- that would be a major foreign policy achievement if it was to happen. I'm right of center but I won't support any politician who doesn't see China as a threat to freedom around the world.
The billionaires who support the Dems are Bezos, big tech and Wall Street- I agree with you there, just wanted to point that out. IMO there should be some antitrust lawsuits being brought against Amazon, Facebook, Google but Dems for sure won't do that and there are some (but too many) Republicans ( Jim Jordan) who won't do it either.
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Trump
Nov 10, 2020 7:17:31 GMT -4
Post by themandalorian on Nov 10, 2020 7:17:31 GMT -4
I'll take an unpopular opinion here - I was intrigued by Trump when he threw his hat or hair in the ring back in 2015.
That said, despite some accomplishments, he was a failure mainly due to his response due to Covid 19 and IMO his inability to focus on policy goals. Any perceived slight and he would get in a pissing match on Twitter at 3am; he would get great economic news or a major foreign policy win and he would piss it away with an attack on someone who criticized him. He never learned that you are never going to be universally loved. Being an advisor to him has to be the worst job ever.
The problem I have seen in the recent past and right now for Republicans or rather for right of center voters is that most Republicans are either grifters who espouse conservative principles to get money from campaign donations then turn once lected like John McCain did or are complete pu$$ies like Romney, they will back down and capitulate when a bad story comes out and the Dems pounce on it. My money is on Ted Cruz for their nominee in 2024, he can be articulate and unlike weak RINOs like McCain and Romney before he actually be strong, in fact much stronger than Trump without being a complete asshole and not having pissing matches on a daily basis.
EDIT - one of the dumbest things he did was bragging about the stock market- yes it went up over his term by appx 50% but under his term there were some of the biggest pullbacks in stock market history and that was before the huge decline at the start of Covid. There are likely some poor saps out there who lost money because they panicked and sold at the wrong times. There were much better economic metrics he could have been bragging about but his Twitter feed was always new market high and when he did brag about low unemployment numbers or incomes increasing there was always a pissing match that took the spotlight off of those. Stock markets always have corrections even in periods of strong economic growth.
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Trump
Nov 10, 2020 9:46:25 GMT -4
Post by Citris on Nov 10, 2020 9:46:25 GMT -4
You missed the key word when you read my post and copied it... IF
- just because someone is right of center doesn't mean they are fascist, you don't know what real fascists are. My great uncle fought them in WW2 in Italy. The closest thing we have to real fascists nowadays are ironically the kids who say they are against fascism but burn down buildings, beat up people in the streets etc then return to their basements once confronted by people with guns to defend themselves.
First off, I never said if somebody is right of center they're a fascist. I said the Republican party's base is currently fascist, which is true. The Overton window has shifted very far to the right tho it's starting to come back a bit which is good. You don't get to accuse me of not knowing what fascist is when you think "kids who say they are against fascism burning down buildings" are the real fascists. Nobody is "beating people up in the streets" (other than far-right militia groups, most of which are openly neo-nazis.) I don't REALLY have time to argue with you on this but Fascism goes through stages, fascism isn't just Nazi Germany in 1939-1945. Hitler and Mussolini had to get into power before that, and Trump uses a lot of the same tactics as they did. (No, I don't believe he did so intentionally, I don't think he's actually smart enough to know what he's doing) Maybe look up Umberto Eco's ur-fascism, or check out some pretty easily digestible resources - - Some more News has a really good series on Trump and his relationship to fascism. -And I think the alt-right playbook is a masterpiece, specifically the " white fascism" video would be the most relevant, but like, I think everyone should give this series a watch at some point.
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Post by lirette on Nov 10, 2020 9:55:34 GMT -4
Have you actually watched any of the protests asides from a couple of heavily edited videos and listening to what Trump tells you?
The only city that is still actively protesting nightly that's resulting in anything close to a riot is in Portland and it is confined to 3 city blocks downtown in front of a federal building. There isn't anything happening in the suburbs and this is just a talking point from rallies. The majority of protests all summer were entirely peaceful.
Which party do you believe is better served to fix systemic racism and specifically why?
While Republicans bark and scream about defund the police (not even in bidens plan, many of your points are addressed by his plan actually) they have been actively defunding the police by failing to get any aide passed to state and local governments which pay the police. Irony is dead.
Its nice to see different ideas debated in a healthy way for a change, but I can't help but still be stunned by it all when the current president:
-spent 6 months actively eroding trust in the election systems by calling mail in voting (during a pandemic) fraudulent -actively and negligently spread coronavirus all over the country, made wearing masks about "hating him" -called lifetime apolitical scientists idiots -put a radiologist who by mistake went on Russian State Tv as the head of the covid response -put secret service at risk to go on a joyride in an air sealed vehicle while he has covid -fires any inspector general who begins an investigation, or anyone who speaks negatively of him -tried to intimidate whistleblowers, most of whom are lifelong government service with no political affiliations -currently appears to be to doing anything and everything to bring the government down with him as he loses an election -has large sums of outstanding debt, making him a security risk -is overtly racist -is overtly misogynist -Mocked a disabled person -Mocked John McCain for being captured -Has anti LGBT+ policies -Administration has lost over 600 migrant childrens parents, most of which the children are under 5 years old -doesn't believe climate change is real -violates the hatch act almost everyday, to a point where everyone is just numb to it. -compliments Evil dictators, but struggles to have any relationship with leaders from democratic countries -spends most of his days watching tv and whining about his coverage on twitter (this is supposed to be a strong alpha president??)
...and thats just a list that covers mostly recent events. None of these issues are left or right issues. Trump is the most anti democratic president we've seen, and that should scare everyone regardless of political leanings. But here we are anyways worried about tax increases on those who make over 400K.
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Trump
Nov 10, 2020 10:06:51 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 10, 2020 10:06:51 GMT -4
Trump does more closely represent the values of the American right than previous candidates, which is a massive condemnation of the American (and honestly global?) right. But, to address some points 1) Their taxes will go up, unless you're extremely wealthy, but due to 2017 tax cuts and jobs act passed by Trump. The Republicans hid an incremental tax increase in there (but not for the rich, only for the working class) that would only kick in AFTER his first term was over. Republicans have never been the party of "lower taxes", not for you anyway. They lower taxes for billionaires and run a deficit that the Democrats have to fix. 2) What Republican policy would increase your wages? Most Republicans are against a 15$ minimum wage and as for higher paying jobs, theirs no indication that those wages would increase. 3) Illegal Immigrants have actually been leaving the country since about 2007. The "Illegal Immigration" thing is a fearmongering tactic used to appeal to the insecure white voters, and anyone who voted Biden over Trump would care more about.... well let's be honest, probably "civility" and "respectability" over that. (Obviously there's a ton more to say about this topic but.. that's a whole rabbit hole I don't really care to go down." 4) Defunding the police is not disbanding the police. It's simply cutting out wasteful spending (Police don't need tanks and experimental sonic weapons) and reallocating it where it's needed more. 90% of police calls are stuff that doesn't at all require an armed officer, traffic stops, domestic disputes, etc. The argument with defunding the police is that a lot of this stuff could be handled by social workers who aren't armed and trained to immediately escalate situations to lethal violence. Armed police need better training, sure, but there doesn't need to be nearly as many and they have to get rid of this terrifying warrior training bullshit. (Check this out on like, how messed up police training can be and how much we REALLY need to do better.) 5) Baseless speculation. Shifting toward green energy actually has and will continue to create Jobs (and good paying jobs. Keep in mind just because Unemployment is low, it doesn't mean underemployment is low. Plenty of people work jobs that they can't live off of because of poor wages or few hours or both.) 6) Again baseless speculation. I honestly don't expect foreign policy to change very much as both Biden and Trump seem to be more at the mercy of their military advisors. 7) Which party do you think is more likely to actually end these protests? The Republican party that ignores their concerns, demonizes them, sends militias in unmarked vans to surpress them etc? Or would it be the Democratic party.... which... okay, is by no means perfect, but may actually be willing to take steps toward (at least optically) addressing issues of systematic racism and police brutality. Side note, I know where you get your news from now, but, nothing is on fire. Protesters aren't thugs. Violence and looting are pretty rare considering the historic size of the protests. Also, you realize you're repeating the same talking points as the people who were against the civil rights movement right? Don't be on the wrong side of history. 8) Again, this isn't borne out by any empirical data. First off, it's laughable to suggest that Joe Biden is radical on Climate Change. Secondly, we spend far more subsidizing the fossil fuel industry than we ever have on Green Energy. America USED to be the most innovative country in the world, which lead largely to its wealth and global dominance, but now, because they're beholden to oil billionaires, the country is stagnating, and unless something changes, China is going to take over as the world superpower. There's a lot of anti-green energy propaganda out there (which coincidentally benefits some of the wealthiest people in the country, I wonder if there's a connection there?) but actually investing in green energy and being at the forefront of that technology would mean that eventually, other countries would have to buy that tech from the US. Fossil fuels are a dying industry, time to look to the future. (The future which incidentally rich ghouls don't really care if we have or not.) Anyway I was hoping we were done with pro Trump nonsense after certain posters earned themselves bans but, I guess not. I don't super want to argue, I just don't like letting conservatives claim that they're the party of responsible economics or whatever because they objectively are not. They don't do anything for anyone except for the 1%. This is a big reason why Trump loves the stock market, because it's numbers that go up that he can point to even tho the people see no benefit from it. Meanwhile corporations are posting record profits and having to pay very little of it in Taxes. PS - At least you can recognize the openly fascist elements of the party are unhinged, I will give you that. PPS - Uhhh this post comes off super pro Democrat, and, while I do recognize them as a far, FAR superior option to the Republican party, which is actively harmful and proto-fascist (that's being generous.), I'd also acknowledge a house cat or plank of wood as a better option for President, as at least it wouldn't be actively trying to do harm to people or take away their rights. That said the Democrats are still not great. They're also in the pockets of Billionaires, they're more concerned with appearances than actual policy etc. Let's just say I really hope they're held to account over the next 4 years to actually move the country left and not fencepost. You missed the key word when you read my post and copied it... IF
- just because someone is right of center doesn't mean they are fascist, you don't know what real fascists are. My great uncle fought them in WW2 in Italy. The closest thing we have to real fascists nowadays are ironically the kids who say they are against fascism but burn down buildings, beat up people in the streets etc then return to their basements once confronted by people with guns to defend themselves.
Trump isn't fascist because he is right of center, he is fascist because he puts children in cages, because he supports people like KJU, Putin and Erdogan who suppress democracy and threaten or kill those that oppose him. Trump not only enables those guys, he looks up to them. He has refused or threatened funding to Democratic cities and states because they tried to enforce mask mandates, social distancing and shut down bars/restaurants/gyms to slow the spread of Covid. Another fascist act is demonizing Latinos, Asians and Muslims at different times, leading to racism, discrimination and assaults. What kids have burnt down buildings? The only buildings burnt down was the police precinct after the George Floyd murder and that was done by the far right to make a peaceful protest seem violent.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 10, 2020 10:25:23 GMT -4
I'll take an unpopular opinion here - I was intrigued by Trump when he threw his hat or hair in the ring back in 2015.
That said, despite some accomplishments, he was a failure mainly due to his response due to Covid 19 and IMO his inability to focus on policy goals. Any perceived slight and he would get in a pissing match on Twitter at 3am; he would get great economic news or a major foreign policy win and he would piss it away with an attack on someone who criticized him. He never learned that you are never going to be universally loved. Being an advisor to him has to be the worst job ever.
The problem I have seen in the recent past and right now for Republicans or rather for right of center voters is that most Republicans are either grifters who espouse conservative principles to get money from campaign donations then turn once lected like John McCain did or are complete pu$$ies like Romney, they will back down and capitulate when a bad story comes out and the Dems pounce on it. My money is on Ted Cruz for their nominee in 2024, he can be articulate and unlike weak RINOs like McCain and Romney before he actually be strong, in fact much stronger than Trump without being a complete asshole and not having pissing matches on a daily basis.
EDIT - one of the dumbest things he did was bragging about the stock market- yes it went up over his term by appx 50% but under his term there were some of the biggest pullbacks in stock market history and that was before the huge decline at the start of Covid. There are likely some poor saps out there who lost money because they panicked and sold at the wrong times. There were much better economic metrics he could have been bragging about but his Twitter feed was always new market high and when he did brag about low unemployment numbers or incomes increasing there was always a pissing match that took the spotlight off of those. Stock markets always have corrections even in periods of strong economic growth.
The GOP was a cancer in the US long before Trump arrived. He just accelerated a lot of the decay started by Gingrich in the 1990's. The GOP was largely funded by the NRA, big oil, big pharma, military contractors and mega churches. Their entire platform is conning poor saps in small town USA like Montana, Arkansas, SD, ND, Oklahoma etc that giving big companies tax cuts and super charging the stock market, preaching free markets is good for them when the rich keep getting richer and the poor get poorer. Most folks who vote republican would be much better off in Canada where the rich pay their part and there are social systems in place(health, education etc) for them and an illness would not bankrupt them. Their kids would have a chance to go to some of the best universities, unlike the US where only the rich can send their kids to the best schools at 50-75k a year. The only difference between Canada and the US is the rich pay more of their share in Canada. The stock market doing well and unemployment being low, has little impact on the bottom 25% because they own no stocks(over half of Americans own no stocks) and minimum wage is so low that having a job doesn't mean you make enough to survive. Their minimum wage is low because it hasn't moved in 20 years. The trickle down economics Reagan touted 40 years ago simply DOES NOT WORK. When rich folks make money, they don't pass it on to employees, they keep it and buy a second yacht or house in the alps. Nobody at Wal mart or Amazon is getting a huge raise or bonus because Bezos or Walton is making billions...meanwhile the US debt has grown to over $60,000 per person, that's 2.5 times more than in Canada, it'as all because the GOP is giving tax cuts to it's rich donors.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Nov 10, 2020 11:24:29 GMT -4
- just because someone is right of center doesn't mean they are fascist, you don't know what real fascists are. My great uncle fought them in WW2 in Italy. The closest thing we have to real fascists nowadays are ironically the kids who say they are against fascism but burn down buildings, beat up people in the streets etc then return to their basements once confronted by people with guns to defend themselves.
You can't put kids in cages and constantly put spotlights on illegal immigrants committing crimes while celebrating white people committing the same crimes and completely avoid the fascist label because some guy 80 years ago was REALLY a fascist. Donald Trump is jealous of what a Hitler could do in terms of rallying people together for his cause and how much power he created for himself. If you can't see that...you're really not paying attention. If Trump had his way he'd be on his way to a utopian society of rich, preferably white, people where the rest of us would be subservient to them. Trump and his group within the GOP are 100% absolutely fascist but in a country where they don't get to dictate any and all laws and need to reign in their fascism when they go up against opponents in real democratic systems. And as we just seen...in spite of all the rallies and trying really hard to act like "Sleepy Joe" couldn't touch him in a world without a real DNC and traditional election style rallys the reality is that Trump's fascism seen members of his own party vote against him in swing states that decided the election. But just like Sidney Crosby and Gordie Howe and Wayne Gretzky were all great hockey players with very different numbers...Trump, like Hitler, is very much so a fascist who wishes he could have taken what he viewed as a dictatorship to a much higher level but in reality his Presidency crashed and burned when he forgot 1 key thing: The President isn't the boss of the people. In a democratic society, the people control the hiring and firing. At literally any point during the last 6 months Trump had the election won if he just even for 1 solid minute tried to relate to the people as a real person with flaws. Instead he doubled...tripled...down on the ignorance, stupidity, and ignoring reality. The only thing he did right was convincing the Cuban immigrants that Biden was socialist. Laughable to believe it....but they did due to their upbringing. Everything else basically was proven to be him putting his own knives in his back when it came to the covid super spreading events he did around the country.
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Trump
Nov 10, 2020 11:32:46 GMT -4
Post by lirette on Nov 10, 2020 11:32:46 GMT -4
- just because someone is right of center doesn't mean they are fascist, you don't know what real fascists are. My great uncle fought them in WW2 in Italy. The closest thing we have to real fascists nowadays are ironically the kids who say they are against fascism but burn down buildings, beat up people in the streets etc then return to their basements once confronted by people with guns to defend themselves.
You can't put kids in cages and constantly put spotlights on illegal immigrants committing crimes while celebrating white people committing the same crimes and completely avoid the fascist label because some guy 80 years ago was REALLY a fascist. Donald Trump is jealous of what a Hitler could do in terms of rallying people together for his cause and how much power he created for himself. If you can't see that...you're really not paying attention. If Trump had his way he'd be on his way to a utopian society of rich, preferably white, people where the rest of us would be subservient to them. All the evidence you need of this is that one of Trump's top advisors and speech writers is Stephen Miller, who doesn't belong anywhere near any government decisions. I'm not surprised about anything Trump does anymore, he's pretty easy to figure out...but am still disturbed on a daily basis by the amount of defenders he has.
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