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Post by leftwinglock on Jan 10, 2018 13:39:01 GMT -4
I'm sure Danny would only come back if he is allowed to operate with no interference from RKI. That barge has sailed. Exactly, why do you think he wanted out in the first place. Danny's in Portland.... associate coach of the best team and with one of the best run teams in the country he's not coming back to deal with RKI's foolishness. I've heard a rumor that Shannon and rumble won't be back after 2019. After laying their cards on the table demanding a rebuild and having an owner now back to meddling and rushing the process they may even opt out sooner if we don't get the mem cup award. as much as we slam on Shannon on these boards i'm a really firm believer that he simply just does as he's told. Like everyone in the working world can attest too, sometimes, no matter how bad of an idea your boss has, you need to execute it to save your job. it's a shame because Rumble, Shannon and Thebeau are good hockey guys..... just sad they can't do what they want. For some reason since that 2013 season RKI seems to want to be the GM and seems to think he is the best one suited to chart the teams direction. |
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Post by WildcatMapleLeafs on Jan 10, 2018 13:50:14 GMT -4
What ever happened with Darryl Young ? Is he employed by the team ?
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 10, 2018 14:48:40 GMT -4
What ever happened with Darryl Young ? Is he employed by the team ? I thought I heard he was a player agent...Bellamy's... |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 10, 2018 14:51:54 GMT -4
Exactly, why do you think he wanted out in the first place. Danny's in Portland.... associate coach of the best team and with one of the best run teams in the country he's not coming back to deal with RKI's foolishness. I've heard a rumor that Shannon and rumble won't be back after 2019. After laying their cards on the table demanding a rebuild and having an owner now back to meddling and rushing the process they may even opt out sooner if we don't get the mem cup award. as much as we slam on Shannon on these boards i'm a really firm believer that he simply just does as he's told. Like everyone in the working world can attest too, sometimes, no matter how bad of an idea your boss has, you need to execute it to save your job. it's a shame because Rumble, Shannon and Thebeau are good hockey guys..... just sad they can't do what they want. For some reason since that 2013 season RKI seems to want to be the GM and seems to think he is the best one suited to chart the teams direction. I have no doubt the owner meddles, but that doesn't force Shannon to make bad trades. It's not like Robert Irving scouted Corson and Massie and said we ABSOLUTELY need to draft them, or told them not to give Bellamy ice time, or to pass on MacDonald 18 months ago only to desperately pay 3 times the cost... Meddling impacts the vision and direction, but not individual horrible whiffs of player evaluation...even if a team has no long term vision, it can still draft well and make good value trades. There have been big whiffs in the evaluation side(Corson Massie MacDonald etc) that have no relation to the owner... |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 10, 2018 15:00:20 GMT -4
Exactly, why do you think he wanted out in the first place. Danny's in Portland.... associate coach of the best team and with one of the best run teams in the country he's not coming back to deal with RKI's foolishness. I've heard a rumor that Shannon and rumble won't be back after 2019. After laying their cards on the table demanding a rebuild and having an owner now back to meddling and rushing the process they may even opt out sooner if we don't get the mem cup award. as much as we slam on Shannon on these boards i'm a really firm believer that he simply just does as he's told. Like everyone in the working world can attest too, sometimes, no matter how bad of an idea your boss has, you need to execute it to save your job. it's a shame because Rumble, Shannon and Thebeau are good hockey guys..... just sad they can't do what they want. For some reason since that 2013 season RKI seems to want to be the GM and seems to think he is the best one suited to chart the teams direction. I have no doubt the owner meddles, but that doesn't force Shannon to make bad trades. It's not like Robert Irving scouted Corson and Massie and said we ABSOLUTELY need to draft them, or told them not to give Bellamy ice time, or to pass on MacDonald 18 months ago only to desperately pay 3 times the cost... Meddling impacts the vision and direction, but not individual horrible whiffs of player evaluation...even if a team has no long term vision, it can still draft well and make good value trades. There have been big whiffs in the evaluation side(Corson Massie MacDonald etc) that have no relation to the owner... You don't know enough about the meddling to say that though. If the owner is meddling, who knows what the direction is, and how often it changes. Maybe there was a personal or business tie to one of those kids and there was pressure to get them in a Wildcat jersey. If the directive was to acquire an impact player when Anderson was available then the pressure was on to spend whatever necessary to keep the owner happy as the owner could have viewed a Halifax getting him as a huge blow and wanted it done regardless of the cost. Draft picks mean less to a billionaire then to a GM or fan lets not forget. I lived through the John Ferguson Jr era in Toronto. Meddling owners with no clue about the sport can absolutely force a good talent evaluator to make trades they otherwise would not make simply in order to keep the boss happy. When you are already forcing a GM to do something they wouldn't normally do when trying to be patient then expecting that forced hand to not make a mistake is silly as that's the exact reason why if given complete autonomy the GM would never be involved in it any way. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 10, 2018 15:04:22 GMT -4
I have no doubt the owner meddles, but that doesn't force Shannon to make bad trades. It's not like Robert Irving scouted Corson and Massie and said we ABSOLUTELY need to draft them, or told them not to give Bellamy ice time, or to pass on MacDonald 18 months ago only to desperately pay 3 times the cost... Meddling impacts the vision and direction, but not individual horrible whiffs of player evaluation...even if a team has no long term vision, it can still draft well and make good value trades. There have been big whiffs in the evaluation side(Corson Massie MacDonald etc) that have no relation to the owner... You don't know enough about the meddling to say that though. If the owner is meddling, who knows what the direction is, and how often it changes. Maybe there was a personal or business tie to one of those kids and there was pressure to get them in a Wildcat jersey. If the directive was to acquire an impact player when Anderson was available then the pressure was on to spend whatever necessary to keep the owner happy as the owner could have viewed a Halifax getting him as a huge blow and wanted it done regardless of the cost. Draft picks mean less to a billionaire then to a GM or fan lets not forget. I lived through the John Ferguson Jr era in Toronto. Meddling owners with no clue about the sport can absolutely force a good talent evaluator to make trades they otherwise would not make simply in order to keep the boss happy. When you are already forcing a GM to do something they wouldn't normally do when trying to be patient then expecting that forced hand to not make a mistake is silly as that's the exact reason why if given complete autonomy the GM would never be involved in it any way. The problem isn't the Wildcats trading for MacDonald it's that they whiffed on him in the first place to trade back twice and draft Massie. THAT is the part that has nothing to do with ownership, the owner runs 3-4 multi Million dollar companies, I doubt he went to Quebec to scout high school hockey and told Shannon he needed to draft Massie and Corson. That has nothing to do with meddling. I agree meddling hurts the team, no doubt about that, but the screw ups in the draft and player evaluation don't happen at the ownership level. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 10, 2018 15:10:09 GMT -4
You don't know enough about the meddling to say that though. If the owner is meddling, who knows what the direction is, and how often it changes. Maybe there was a personal or business tie to one of those kids and there was pressure to get them in a Wildcat jersey. If the directive was to acquire an impact player when Anderson was available then the pressure was on to spend whatever necessary to keep the owner happy as the owner could have viewed a Halifax getting him as a huge blow and wanted it done regardless of the cost. Draft picks mean less to a billionaire then to a GM or fan lets not forget. I lived through the John Ferguson Jr era in Toronto. Meddling owners with no clue about the sport can absolutely force a good talent evaluator to make trades they otherwise would not make simply in order to keep the boss happy. When you are already forcing a GM to do something they wouldn't normally do when trying to be patient then expecting that forced hand to not make a mistake is silly as that's the exact reason why if given complete autonomy the GM would never be involved in it any way. The problem isn't the Wildcats trading for MacDonald it's that they whiffed on him in the first place to trade back twice and draft Massie. THAT is the part that has nothing to do with ownership, the owner runs 3-4 multi Million dollar companies, I doubt he went to Quebec to scout high school hockey and told Shannon he needed to draft Massie and Corson. That has nothing to do with meddling. I agree meddling hurts the team, no doubt about that, but the screw ups in the draft and player evaluation don't happen at the ownership level. They do if ownership is giving another directive despite that information. For all anyone knows he told Shannon to accumulate picks and trade down for no reason other then thats what he wanted to do at the time. Owners lacking knowledge of the product tend to have very short sighted views. That's why most rely on their hockey ops to do that. If I had to wager i'd say your owner is trying to act almost as a director of hockey ops without the knowledge. Let the GM do the leg work based on your direction with you having final say. Trade down in the draft? Sure. We need picks. A year later trade a pile of picks for MacDonald? Sure we lack that kind of player for 2019. The owner likely never realizes that the trading down cost him what he overpaid for a short time later. And if you're the GM how hard do you push trying to make him realize that? You still want to stay in his good books and keep getting paid after all. Tough gig to be the GM of a team with a hands on owner who should be hands off. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 10, 2018 15:28:53 GMT -4
The problem isn't the Wildcats trading for MacDonald it's that they whiffed on him in the first place to trade back twice and draft Massie. THAT is the part that has nothing to do with ownership, the owner runs 3-4 multi Million dollar companies, I doubt he went to Quebec to scout high school hockey and told Shannon he needed to draft Massie and Corson. That has nothing to do with meddling. I agree meddling hurts the team, no doubt about that, but the screw ups in the draft and player evaluation don't happen at the ownership level. They do if ownership is giving another directive despite that information. For all anyone knows he told Shannon to accumulate picks and trade down for no reason other then thats what he wanted to do at the time. Owners lacking knowledge of the product tend to have very short sighted views. That's why most rely on their hockey ops to do that. If I had to wager i'd say your owner is trying to act almost as a director of hockey ops without the knowledge. Let the GM do the leg work based on your direction with you having final say. Trade down in the draft? Sure. We need picks. A year later trade a pile of picks for MacDonald? Sure we lack that kind of player for 2019. The owner likely never realizes that the trading down cost him what he overpaid for a short time later. And if you're the GM how hard do you push trying to make him realize that? You still want to stay in his good books and keep getting paid after all. Tough gig to be the GM of a team with a hands on owner who should be hands off. The drafting and asset management has never been worse than the last 4-5 years. The current stretch is the worst the cats have drafted by a country mile. The current owner has been in place 20+ years...who is the common denominator here? The owner has ALWAYS had his nose in the hockey side and they looked like a pretty well run franchise. Why are the last few years different? |
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Post by SteveUL on Jan 10, 2018 16:01:49 GMT -4
They do if ownership is giving another directive despite that information. For all anyone knows he told Shannon to accumulate picks and trade down for no reason other then thats what he wanted to do at the time. Owners lacking knowledge of the product tend to have very short sighted views. That's why most rely on their hockey ops to do that. If I had to wager i'd say your owner is trying to act almost as a director of hockey ops without the knowledge. Let the GM do the leg work based on your direction with you having final say. Trade down in the draft? Sure. We need picks. A year later trade a pile of picks for MacDonald? Sure we lack that kind of player for 2019. The owner likely never realizes that the trading down cost him what he overpaid for a short time later. And if you're the GM how hard do you push trying to make him realize that? You still want to stay in his good books and keep getting paid after all. Tough gig to be the GM of a team with a hands on owner who should be hands off. The drafting and asset management has never been worse than the last 4-5 years. The current stretch is the worst the cats have drafted by a country mile. The current owner has been in place 20+ years...who is the common denominator here? The owner has ALWAYS had his nose in the hockey side and they looked like a pretty well run franchise. Why are the last few years different? I think what has changed though is that since we last won a championship in 2010, Saint John has won 3 (4 trips to the final), Halifax has one, and both have won the Memorial Cup. Plus, Halifax and Saint John have become model franchises in the Q and are almost ready to win again. Since that time we have been in "hurry up" mode ... with the first sign of that being the return on the Gormley trade. |
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dar
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 458
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Post by dar on Jan 10, 2018 16:47:32 GMT -4
The drafting and asset management has never been worse than the last 4-5 years. The current stretch is the worst the cats have drafted by a country mile. The current owner has been in place 20+ years...who is the common denominator here? The owner has ALWAYS had his nose in the hockey side and they looked like a pretty well run franchise. Why are the last few years different? I think what has changed though is that since we last won a championship in 2010, Saint John has won 3 (4 trips to the final), Halifax has one, and both have won the Memorial Cup. Plus, Halifax and Saint John have become model franchises in the Q and are almost ready to win again. Since that time we have been in "hurry up" mode ... with the first sign of that being the return on the Gormley trade. And the main reason why it's not working is because they have been in this hurry up mode. To do it right you have to be very patient. |
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Post by Arnold Slick on Jan 10, 2018 20:07:19 GMT -4
It gets depressing to hear of how Irving seems to meddle more and more ever year. Anyway on the topic of the second half of the season...
It's a decent enough team although I'm not sure how much ground they'll be making up when you consider that 46% of their remaining games are against Halifax, Bathurst and Charlottetown. That said they've competed and been right with those teams the last handful of games they've played. If the Cats could ever get the scoring figured out they could possibly surprise someone in the playoffs.
The offence *should* work itself out if they have a full compliment of players available + Khovanov rounds into top form. There's certainly enough talent that they shouldn't be struggling as much as they have to find goals.
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mav
Blue-Chip Prospect
Take a shoot; Make a score!!!
Posts: 324
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Post by mav on Jan 11, 2018 7:53:07 GMT -4
I just noticed Casey Fox is a mid October kid(98). Does that make him an 18 or 19 yr old in the league? If he is considered a 19 , i wonder why we would even both with him....injuries?...seems strange to me.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 11, 2018 8:04:50 GMT -4
I just noticed Casey Fox is a mid October kid(98). Does that make him an 18 or 19 yr old in the league? If he is considered a 19 , i wonder why we would even both with him....injuries?...seems strange to me. It doesn't matter when his birthday is. All 1998 born players are considered 19 and would be OA's next year. Strange move indeed if they keep him full time, I thought they were keeping the other Fox kid. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 11, 2018 8:06:26 GMT -4
The drafting and asset management has never been worse than the last 4-5 years. The current stretch is the worst the cats have drafted by a country mile. The current owner has been in place 20+ years...who is the common denominator here? The owner has ALWAYS had his nose in the hockey side and they looked like a pretty well run franchise. Why are the last few years different? I think what has changed though is that since we last won a championship in 2010, Saint John has won 3 (4 trips to the final), Halifax has one, and both have won the Memorial Cup. Plus, Halifax and Saint John have become model franchises in the Q and are almost ready to win again. Since that time we have been in "hurry up" mode ... with the first sign of that being the return on the Gormley trade. The stupid part of that is SJ and Halifax won by being patient through rebuilds and loading up through the draft. Somebody shows you the formula...and you do the EXACT opposite! |
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Post by WhiteTyAffair on Jan 11, 2018 19:43:43 GMT -4
Wildcats have signed 2017 10th round pick Josh Nicholson as an affiliate player. Expect to see him called up for some games.
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