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Post by Shannon's burner account on Feb 11, 2019 8:10:16 GMT -4
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Post by lirette on Feb 11, 2019 8:30:18 GMT -4
If you actually read the article its pretty much fluff as always and the only real meaningful quote in there says
"I'm looking forward to working hard to build a winning team, but you can't win every year. You've got to know when to fold'em (and make moves to build for the future) if it isn't there for you in a particular season"
There's also some mention that Torchetti is going to talk to Kyle Dubas & Mark Hunter for advice.
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Post by Arnold Slick on Feb 11, 2019 9:41:12 GMT -4
Every team in the CHL should want to be like London. I would be disappointed if you didn't want to be like them.
I think there's a misconception that trying to be like London means loading up every season which is absolutely NOT the case. In fact London last season was a bit like the Cats this season in that they had a pretty good team and had a decision to make at the trade deadline.
Unlike the Cats though they realized they were not going to compete with the likes of Sault Ste Marie, Kitchener and Hamilton and sold off their best players for picks and younger players. Thanks to that they're now back to being right in the mix for an OHL and Memorial Cup title. Yes, getting Americans and NCAA guys to report is a part of their success but they would not be as good as they are this season if not for making that smart decision last year.
Meanwhile in Moncton...the Cats did nothing to augment their team for next season and just made foolish additions that won't lead to a championship. So yeah I absolutely hope they start acting more like London.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 11, 2019 10:07:20 GMT -4
The way I see it is you have to target 1 or 2 years where you can make a run and then be flexible depending on how the season goes. Smart teams leverage trade periods to maximize their assets, but you also don’t want to bottom out where you are bottom 3-4 for multiple years in a row.
The Cats did it right 2 years ago with the rebuild, but they made terrible moves in the 6 months right after, wasting assets on short cuts and overpriced players. Had they used more of their picks on actual players, kept and played them, next year those guys would be key pieces along with guys like Aspirot Cyr Mckenna etc.
If you want to be like London, you can’t waste a bunch of assets on a guy that quickly wore out his welcome in Sherbrooke in MacDonald(ended up doing the same here, then traded him for 30 cents on the dollar) and overpaying for a depth defenseman(Sylvestre) in a non contending year. Then messed around with their 1st round d-man and ended up trading him away.
I think trying to be like London is setting yourself up to fail. The #1 reason is, Moncton will never be able to bring in 3-4 blue chip US players at once like London usually has, most years their roster is about 1/3 US players and also other guys that were going NCAA that they “convinced” to report. The Cats have not had much luck the last 4-5 years getting NCAA kids(US and Canadian) to report, hopefully that changes, but not something you can plan on until it actually happens. Irving and Torchetti just have to look at Halifax and SJ(and even Bathurst) on how to build a winner, however some how RKI seems to think they are smarter than those teams…
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 11, 2019 10:12:18 GMT -4
Every team in the CHL should want to be like London. I would be disappointed if you didn't want to be like them. I think there's a misconception that trying to be like London means loading up every season which is absolutely NOT the case. In fact London last season was a bit like the Cats this season in that they had a pretty good team and had a decision to make at the trade deadline. Unlike the Cats though they realized they were not going to compete with the likes of Sault Ste Marie, Kitchener and Hamilton and sold off their best players for picks and younger players. Thanks to that they're now back to being right in the mix for an OHL and Memorial Cup title. Yes, getting Americans and NCAA guys to report is a part of their success but they would not be as good as they are this season if not for making that smart decision last year. Meanwhile in Moncton...the Cats did nothing to augment their team for next season and just made foolish additions that won't lead to a championship. So yeah I absolutely hope they start acting more like London. I agree with everything your saying, one big difference between London and frankly every QMJHL team is they can bring in a boatload of US kids, right now all Q teams are struggling to compete with the NCAA both with US kids and convincing Canadian kids committed to NCAA teams to report. London turns that into an art, they bring in 3-4 NCAA kids per year, usually top flight ones. About 1/3 of their roster is American and most years, that’d half their core guys, no QMJHL team can do that or even come close. A few years back Halifax, Quebec and at times Moncton and SJ were able to bring in blue chip US kids, the last 2-3 years there don’t seem to be any big name kids reporting. |
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Post by SteveUL on Feb 11, 2019 12:29:50 GMT -4
Every team in the CHL should want to be like London. I would be disappointed if you didn't want to be like them. I think there's a misconception that trying to be like London means loading up every season which is absolutely NOT the case. In fact London last season was a bit like the Cats this season in that they had a pretty good team and had a decision to make at the trade deadline. Unlike the Cats though they realized they were not going to compete with the likes of Sault Ste Marie, Kitchener and Hamilton and sold off their best players for picks and younger players. Thanks to that they're now back to being right in the mix for an OHL and Memorial Cup title. Yes, getting Americans and NCAA guys to report is a part of their success but they would not be as good as they are this season if not for making that smart decision last year. Meanwhile in Moncton...the Cats did nothing to augment their team for next season and just made foolish additions that won't lead to a championship. So yeah I absolutely hope they start acting more like London. I agree with everything your saying, one big difference between London and frankly every QMJHL team is they can bring in a boatload of US kids, right now all Q teams are struggling to compete with the NCAA both with US kids and convincing Canadian kids committed to NCAA teams to report. London turns that into an art, they bring in 3-4 NCAA kids per year, usually top flight ones. About 1/3 of their roster is American and most years, that’d half their core guys, no QMJHL team can do that or even come close. A few years back Halifax, Quebec and at times Moncton and SJ were able to bring in blue chip US kids, the last 2-3 years there don’t seem to be any big name kids reporting. Halifax convinced Barron ... SJ got Lawrence ... Sherbrooke got Jacques ... but those are the Canadian kids heading out that changed their mind. They are easier to convince to stay because they know what they are getting into. The US kids fear getting here and getting traded to a northern Quebec team. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 11, 2019 12:38:38 GMT -4
I agree with everything your saying, one big difference between London and frankly every QMJHL team is they can bring in a boatload of US kids, right now all Q teams are struggling to compete with the NCAA both with US kids and convincing Canadian kids committed to NCAA teams to report. London turns that into an art, they bring in 3-4 NCAA kids per year, usually top flight ones. About 1/3 of their roster is American and most years, that’d half their core guys, no QMJHL team can do that or even come close. A few years back Halifax, Quebec and at times Moncton and SJ were able to bring in blue chip US kids, the last 2-3 years there don’t seem to be any big name kids reporting. Halifax convinced Barron ... SJ got Lawrence ... Sherbrooke got Jacques ... but those are the Canadian kids heading out that changed their mind. They are easier to convince to stay because they know what they are getting into. The US kids fear getting here and getting traded to a northern Quebec team. At certain points, Moncton Halifax Quebec and SJ were getting some pretty big name US kids to come, that’s seem to have dried up the last 4-5 years. Unless that changes dramatically, people need to stop talking about the “London model” in the papers and on TV. Trying to use that model in Moncton will give you an upper mid pack team each year and 1 or 2 rounds of playoffs, nothing more. They would have to get about 50% better with Euros and the Q draft to have any chance at that type of run. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 11, 2019 12:44:55 GMT -4
I agree with everything your saying, one big difference between London and frankly every QMJHL team is they can bring in a boatload of US kids, right now all Q teams are struggling to compete with the NCAA both with US kids and convincing Canadian kids committed to NCAA teams to report. London turns that into an art, they bring in 3-4 NCAA kids per year, usually top flight ones. About 1/3 of their roster is American and most years, that’d half their core guys, no QMJHL team can do that or even come close. A few years back Halifax, Quebec and at times Moncton and SJ were able to bring in blue chip US kids, the last 2-3 years there don’t seem to be any big name kids reporting. Halifax convinced Barron ... SJ got Lawrence ... Sherbrooke got Jacques ... but those are the Canadian kids heading out that changed their mind. They are easier to convince to stay because they know what they are getting into. The US kids fear getting here and getting traded to a northern Quebec team. I don't even think that's it. There is trade protection to prevent that. It's way more of a cultural thing where they don't want to leave their country when there's perfectly suitable options in their local backyards such as USHL and NCAA. If you're a kid from the east coast, which we need to draw from, you have historical NCAA hockey powers up and down the coast that are all way more of an option for you and your family then junior hockey in Canada. It plays right into how they're raised and obsessing over how to pay and receive an NCAA education. I think our kids look at it differently partly because our University options are cheaper. A Canadian kid going down south and ending up being 19/20 and not playing NCAA can come home and go to school for under $10K per year for most degrees. The American kid coming here with no guarantees for school is facing a much larger bill when he goes back down south if he wants to go to school. |
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Post by SteveUL on Feb 11, 2019 13:07:33 GMT -4
Halifax convinced Barron ... SJ got Lawrence ... Sherbrooke got Jacques ... but those are the Canadian kids heading out that changed their mind. They are easier to convince to stay because they know what they are getting into. The US kids fear getting here and getting traded to a northern Quebec team. I don't even think that's it. There is trade protection to prevent that. It's way more of a cultural thing where they don't want to leave their country when there's perfectly suitable options in their local backyards such as USHL and NCAA. If you're a kid from the east coast, which we need to draw from, you have historical NCAA hockey powers up and down the coast that are all way more of an option for you and your family then junior hockey in Canada. It plays right into how they're raised and obsessing over how to pay and receive an NCAA education. I think our kids look at it differently partly because our University options are cheaper. A Canadian kid going down south and ending up being 19/20 and not playing NCAA can come home and go to school for under $10K per year for most degrees. The American kid coming here with no guarantees for school is facing a much larger bill when he goes back down south if he wants to go to school. If all that were true then London would face the same issue. |
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Post by emerz on Feb 11, 2019 13:17:41 GMT -4
The Knights get a massive boost from basically being able to have their pick of almost any NHL round 1/2 drafted european and being able to get them to report.
Latest example being Adam Boqvist who was picked 8th overall in the 2018 draft and 109th overall in the proceeding import draft because he simply wouldn't report anywhere else. So now they have their #1D man locked up for 2 years, that easy.
Some teams in the CHL could go a long time without even drafting a Boqvist level impact through the regular league draft or the euro draft.
Must be nice.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 11, 2019 13:39:55 GMT -4
The Knights get a massive boost from basically being able to have their pick of almost any NHL round 1/2 drafted european and being able to get them to report. Latest example being Adam Boqvist who was picked 8th overall in the 2018 draft and 109th overall in the proceeding import draft because he simply wouldn't report anywhere else. So now they have their #1D man locked up for 2 years, that easy. Some teams in the CHL could go a long time without even drafting a Boqvist level impact through the regular league draft or the euro draft. Must be nice. I don’t think he plays there at 19, but they can definitely get top flight Euros. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 11, 2019 13:41:56 GMT -4
I don't even think that's it. There is trade protection to prevent that. It's way more of a cultural thing where they don't want to leave their country when there's perfectly suitable options in their local backyards such as USHL and NCAA. If you're a kid from the east coast, which we need to draw from, you have historical NCAA hockey powers up and down the coast that are all way more of an option for you and your family then junior hockey in Canada. It plays right into how they're raised and obsessing over how to pay and receive an NCAA education. I think our kids look at it differently partly because our University options are cheaper. A Canadian kid going down south and ending up being 19/20 and not playing NCAA can come home and go to school for under $10K per year for most degrees. The American kid coming here with no guarantees for school is facing a much larger bill when he goes back down south if he wants to go to school. If all that were true then London would face the same issue. Difference is that our American kids are from New England. OHL draws from a different base of kids. From places where the NCAA is still a big option but not quite as huge as the hockey schools are in Hockey East and since Ontario is in most of these kids backyards they play a lot of hockey there as kids and are already used to a lot of the travel and know a lot of the kids playing there already. A kid from Boston wouldn't be as familiar with the Maritimes and the Q as say a kid in upper NY state would be with Ontario and the OHL while they were playing top tier hockey at 13, 14, and 15. And London with deep pockets also guarantees a lot of school money and other perks that many OHL teams won't. |
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Post by SteveUL on Feb 11, 2019 14:25:21 GMT -4
If all that were true then London would face the same issue. Difference is that our American kids are from New England. OHL draws from a different base of kids. From places where the NCAA is still a big option but not quite as huge as the hockey schools are in Hockey East and since Ontario is in most of these kids backyards they play a lot of hockey there as kids and are already used to a lot of the travel and know a lot of the kids playing there already. A kid from Boston wouldn't be as familiar with the Maritimes and the Q as say a kid in upper NY state would be with Ontario and the OHL while they were playing top tier hockey at 13, 14, and 15. And London with deep pockets also guarantees a lot of school money and other perks that many OHL teams won't. Yup ... I get all that. But London can't pay anymore in school money than we are allowed to ... legally. They put in a rule a few years back that limited the school money that teams could pay so that small markets would have the same chance at landing NCAA bound players. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 11, 2019 14:30:35 GMT -4
Difference is that our American kids are from New England. OHL draws from a different base of kids. From places where the NCAA is still a big option but not quite as huge as the hockey schools are in Hockey East and since Ontario is in most of these kids backyards they play a lot of hockey there as kids and are already used to a lot of the travel and know a lot of the kids playing there already. A kid from Boston wouldn't be as familiar with the Maritimes and the Q as say a kid in upper NY state would be with Ontario and the OHL while they were playing top tier hockey at 13, 14, and 15. And London with deep pockets also guarantees a lot of school money and other perks that many OHL teams won't. Yup ... I get all that. But London can't pay anymore in school money than we are allowed to ... legally. They put in a rule a few years back that limited the school money that teams could pay so that small markets would have the same chance at landing NCAA bound players. And thats where being so close to the US border as a big market helps their cause. If Halifax was in New Hampshire instead of Nova Scotia I think they'd see a lot more New England kids having interest. But even then the size and caliber of Hockey East might put a wrench into the plans a bit which is likely why the league has never really gone back there after Lewiston folded. There's no more talent to draw then we've been drawing anyway. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 11, 2019 14:35:57 GMT -4
If all that were true then London would face the same issue. Difference is that our American kids are from New England. OHL draws from a different base of kids. From places where the NCAA is still a big option but not quite as huge as the hockey schools are in Hockey East and since Ontario is in most of these kids backyards they play a lot of hockey there as kids and are already used to a lot of the travel and know a lot of the kids playing there already. A kid from Boston wouldn't be as familiar with the Maritimes and the Q as say a kid in upper NY state would be with Ontario and the OHL while they were playing top tier hockey at 13, 14, and 15. And London with deep pockets also guarantees a lot of school money and other perks that many OHL teams won't. Michigan is also a big pool for the OHL. same scenario, they are next door, have kids play tournaments there plus there is an OHL team in the state. |
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