|
|
Post by SteveUL on Feb 13, 2019 11:25:51 GMT -4
I am also frustrated by it, but we currently sit in 5th in the conference. I don't think it is so much about trying to finish 4th to get that home ice advantage, but rather to try to avoid BC, Halifax or Rimouski in round 1. We could finish 4th but I don't care, and it is unlikely. We will probably finish 5th or 6th (maybe 7th) and face either CB or Rimouski. We'd be the underdog no matter which one we faced but we'd have a better chance of making it to round 2 (no further).
I think Torchetti is just trying to get some positive momentum going with a winning streak and so he feels the best way to do that is with the 20 YO in goal. I'm not agreeing with that approach as the younger guy has to play, but I think that is what is going on.
|
|
|
|
Post by SteveUL on Feb 13, 2019 11:35:13 GMT -4
Wildcats win percentage after last night: Home 53.7% Away: 66.7% So yeah, let's burn out Leclerc and sacrifice Lavallée's development (and at this point, his trade value as well) all for a shot at home ice "advantage" in the 1st round. Complete insanity. Yep and the "devils advocate people" will say "that home ice could be the difference between winning a round or not meaning an extra 2-3 home games and an extra $50K or more in revenue" while the other side of that is that anything you put into now is coming from the future. Riding an overage goalie now and not properly preparing someone for next year means you're overpaying next year for a veteran more then likely. So those 2-3 extra home games, under the best case scenario to most people, are costing future assets which mean future years could be hurt and we could just be giving back those 2-3 home games over the next cycle all because we were a .500 team that decided to ride overage goaltending into the ground. Then these same franchises say they're using the London Knights as their template. If we are contending next year, it isn't with Lavalee as a our #1. We will probably add a 20 YO goaltender at the draft to take advantage of that new rule that kicks in next season. |
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 13, 2019 12:03:42 GMT -4
Yep and the "devils advocate people" will say "that home ice could be the difference between winning a round or not meaning an extra 2-3 home games and an extra $50K or more in revenue" while the other side of that is that anything you put into now is coming from the future. Riding an overage goalie now and not properly preparing someone for next year means you're overpaying next year for a veteran more then likely. So those 2-3 extra home games, under the best case scenario to most people, are costing future assets which mean future years could be hurt and we could just be giving back those 2-3 home games over the next cycle all because we were a .500 team that decided to ride overage goaltending into the ground. Then these same franchises say they're using the London Knights as their template. If we are contending next year, it isn't with Lavalee as a our #1. We will probably add a 20 YO goaltender at the draft to take advantage of that new rule that kicks in next season. Yeah thats what I said. You're riding someone not returning and basically forcing yourself to bring in someone else. Many teams fans keep bringing up the "free" overage goaltender spot. That only works to your advantage if you have a good overage goaltender to use the spot on. If you don't you're just putting off finding a younger guy who might be a #1 for 2-3 years. |
|
LLL
Rookie
Posts: 210
|
Post by LLL on Feb 13, 2019 12:07:42 GMT -4
I hope that Torch is not already caving in on the pressure from RKI to win win and win and riding his No. 1 goalie as a consequence.
|
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 13, 2019 12:10:30 GMT -4
Yep and the "devils advocate people" will say "that home ice could be the difference between winning a round or not meaning an extra 2-3 home games and an extra $50K or more in revenue" while the other side of that is that anything you put into now is coming from the future. Riding an overage goalie now and not properly preparing someone for next year means you're overpaying next year for a veteran more then likely. So those 2-3 extra home games, under the best case scenario to most people, are costing future assets which mean future years could be hurt and we could just be giving back those 2-3 home games over the next cycle all because we were a .500 team that decided to ride overage goaltending into the ground. Then these same franchises say they're using the London Knights as their template. If we are contending next year, it isn't with Lavalee as a our #1. We will probably add a 20 YO goaltender at the draft to take advantage of that new rule that kicks in next season. The problem I'm seeing is, next year is Lavallee's draft year and he won't want to get 15-20 starts, so his camp will ask for a trade similar to Bellamy and others. If you play him on a regular basis, at least next year he is ready for a 40-60 split on a contender then you have your #1 the following 2 years...or at least a great trade chip at some point. Young players in the q are an investment, the good teams play them from day 1 and the investment pays off, by the end of the season or the following one with growth. Those teams that won't are spinning their wheels, bringing in FA's and making desperate trades...Bellamy and Lavallee are but two obvious examples. |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 13, 2019 12:12:44 GMT -4
I am also frustrated by it, but we currently sit in 5th in the conference. I don't think it is so much about trying to finish 4th to get that home ice advantage, but rather to try to avoid BC, Halifax or Rimouski in round 1. We could finish 4th but I don't care, and it is unlikely. We will probably finish 5th or 6th (maybe 7th) and face either CB or Rimouski. We'd be the underdog no matter which one we faced but we'd have a better chance of making it to round 2 (no further). I think Torchetti is just trying to get some positive momentum going with a winning streak and so he feels the best way to do that is with the 20 YO in goal. I'm not agreeing with that approach as the younger guy has to play, but I think that is what is going on. Still a very short sighted way to run things, I understand Torchetti is here long term, so why take such an approach? |
|
ronmac
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 376
|
Post by ronmac on Feb 13, 2019 12:32:11 GMT -4
I am also frustrated by it, but we currently sit in 5th in the conference. I don't think it is so much about trying to finish 4th to get that home ice advantage, but rather to try to avoid BC, Halifax or Rimouski in round 1. We could finish 4th but I don't care, and it is unlikely. We will probably finish 5th or 6th (maybe 7th) and face either CB or Rimouski. We'd be the underdog no matter which one we faced but we'd have a better chance of making it to round 2 (no further). I think Torchetti is just trying to get some positive momentum going with a winning streak and so he feels the best way to do that is with the 20 YO in goal. I'm not agreeing with that approach as the younger guy has to play, but I think that is what is going on. Still a very short sighted way to run things, I understand Torchetti is here long term, so why take such an approach? It has to be the Irving approach, as every coach and GM we had for years seem to run the team the same way?  |
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 13, 2019 12:39:54 GMT -4
Still a very short sighted way to run things, I understand Torchetti is here long term, so why take such an approach? It has to be the Irving approach, as every coach and GM we had for years seem to run the team the same way? Same way the Leafs were run by the teachers pension fund. Hire a GM yet give him no ability to run a team his way and handcuff him by demanding 4-6 home playoff dates every spring then wonder why you can't even achieve that. Let the hockey people run the hockey team. Let the rich owners count the money and pay the bills. |
|
yorb
Draft Pick
Posts: 71
|
Post by yorb on Feb 13, 2019 13:23:10 GMT -4
This has been said many times and in many ways “Irving is gonna Irving” with his team’s rebuild or whatever it’s become ? Does anybody else get the inkling that to some extent their going to have to blow it up again at the draft ? I'm sure it'll follow the usual pattern, a giant buying spree at the draft & at mid-season with Pelletier/Spence/Desnoyers traded away at the end of next season. Becoming painfully predictable: Years 1&2: Cupboards excessively bare, resulting in torture for everyone. Fans are loyal and endure it, as the team swears they're committed to "a long-term plan" Year 3: Team invariably has a good preseason/September/October, and as usual Irving gives the hot start WAY too much weight, suddenly a win-at-all-costs mentality becomes the directive at the expense of young player development and resentment from young players. Irving starts buying prematurely, trades away young players for peanuts, mantra suddenly changes to "We want to win every year". Team predictably falls back to earth once the season really gets going. Casual fans disappointed with the letdown, hardcore fans incensed with the irrationality and lack of adherence to the original plan. Year 4: Irving's trademark Memorial Cup obsession kicks into overdrive, he quickly abandons the London Knights philosophy and goes on an all-out buying spree, at inflated prices. Team may or may not go deep, fan base enjoys the run but mentally prepares itself to have everyone traded away as futures, followed by another 2-3 years of torture (instead of 1 year), the result of a cycle full of ill-conceived moves, disgruntled young players wanting out in years 2&3 and being traded at a fraction of their value. Cycle as usual has ups & downs, but the asset management leaves a bad taste. My guess is, if there was a parallel universe where Irving was equally invested in the team but strictly kept his hands off the coach/GM decisions, we'd have at least 2-3 more Presidents Cups, and a far less cynical fan base. |
|
|
|
Post by leftwinglock on Feb 13, 2019 14:35:06 GMT -4
Still a very short sighted way to run things, I understand Torchetti is here long term, so why take such an approach? It has to be the Irving approach, as every coach and GM we had for years seem to run the team the same way? so maybe with all these revelations coming to light this board owes danny Flynn, Darren rumble, Ritchie thebeau and roger Shannon apologies. we can guarantee that these trades are all controlled by 1 person. and sometimes no matter how much you don't want to do something you just have to go along with what your boss tells you to do.... we did a full rebuild, collected all these picks... and with the owner at the draft table he orchestrated all these trades and we squandered the picks we had. after the bad second half of the 17 season the owner fires the gm after the 18 season because he wanted to finish higher in the standings... we bought a bit that season instead of trading back to continue the rebuild and now in year 2 of a rebuild we bought yet again..... the owner refusing to ok the trades of vets... and we are left with a team with 7 or 8 19 year olds on a roster.... and to top it off as quoted in our own news paper... torchetti says that irving tells him he needs to win... that's the most important... that was the condition on witch torchetti was hired... was to win.... I see us going for broke in the 2020 season and torchetti leaving at the seasons end. |
|
ronmac
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 376
|
Post by ronmac on Feb 13, 2019 14:44:56 GMT -4
It has to be the Irving approach, as every coach and GM we had for years seem to run the team the same way? so maybe with all these revelations coming to light this board owes danny Flynn, Darren rumble, Ritchie thebeau and roger Shannon apologies. we can guarantee that these trades are all controlled by 1 person. and sometimes no matter how much you don't want to do something you just have to go along with what your boss tells you to do.... we did a full rebuild, collected all these picks... and with the owner at the draft table he orchestrated all these trades and we squandered the picks we had. after the bad second half of the 17 season the owner fires the gm after the 18 season because he wanted to finish higher in the standings... we bought a bit that season instead of trading back to continue the rebuild and now in year 2 of a rebuild we bought yet again..... the owner refusing to ok the trades of vets... and we are left with a team with 7 or 8 19 year olds on a roster.... and to top it off as quoted in our own news paper... torchetti says that irving tells him he needs to win... that's the most important... that was the condition on witch torchetti was hired... was to win.... I see us going for broke in the 2020 season and torchetti leaving at the seasons end. There is definitely a pattern going, I said two years ago that I thought the team was content to win one or two rounds And to hell with any championship teams, just my thoughts. |
|
|
|
Post by lirette on Feb 13, 2019 17:10:03 GMT -4
It has to be the Irving approach, as every coach and GM we had for years seem to run the team the same way? so maybe with all these revelations coming to light this board owes danny Flynn, Darren rumble, Ritchie thebeau and roger Shannon apologies. we can guarantee that these trades are all controlled by 1 person. and sometimes no matter how much you don't want to do something you just have to go along with what your boss tells you to do.... we did a full rebuild, collected all these picks... and with the owner at the draft table he orchestrated all these trades and we squandered the picks we had. after the bad second half of the 17 season the owner fires the gm after the 18 season because he wanted to finish higher in the standings... we bought a bit that season instead of trading back to continue the rebuild and now in year 2 of a rebuild we bought yet again..... the owner refusing to ok the trades of vets... and we are left with a team with 7 or 8 19 year olds on a roster.... and to top it off as quoted in our own news paper... torchetti says that irving tells him he needs to win... that's the most important... that was the condition on witch torchetti was hired... was to win.... I see us going for broke in the 2020 season and torchetti leaving at the seasons end. I don't think having Irving as the owner just nullifies any criticism on past coaches & GM's. Irving likely has very little knowledge of what players even play on other teams or about any prospects at the draft. He doesn't provide systems or coaching or develop players. Hes a casual hockey fan at best. Half the time at the coliseum he would yell at the wrong ref on a penalty call. What it certainly does is make any of their jobs that much harder when you can't properly execute building a championship team. You can make a 4-5 year plan but Irving putting the veto on trades in year 2 & 3 puts you behind every other team who's following their plan. The Cats could have likely added 2-3 extra high draft picks & quality futures at the draft heading into next season but instead subtracted relatively high picks & 1 prospect in an attempt to appease the owner that they bought. Likely they will end up in the same place in the standings had they sold. AA seems like a good add for the cost but the euro situation was completely flubbed. Torchetti should have good contacts to secure a euro for next season but the pick won't be nearly as high. The only real positive is they didn't go all in & they kept the Bathurst pick.. but they shouldn't have been put in that position in the first place. |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 13, 2019 19:58:08 GMT -4
It has to be the Irving approach, as every coach and GM we had for years seem to run the team the same way? so maybe with all these revelations coming to light this board owes danny Flynn, Darren rumble, Ritchie thebeau and roger Shannon apologies. we can guarantee that these trades are all controlled by 1 person. and sometimes no matter how much you don't want to do something you just have to go along with what your boss tells you to do.... we did a full rebuild, collected all these picks... and with the owner at the draft table he orchestrated all these trades and we squandered the picks we had. after the bad second half of the 17 season the owner fires the gm after the 18 season because he wanted to finish higher in the standings... we bought a bit that season instead of trading back to continue the rebuild and now in year 2 of a rebuild we bought yet again..... the owner refusing to ok the trades of vets... and we are left with a team with 7 or 8 19 year olds on a roster.... and to top it off as quoted in our own news paper... torchetti says that irving tells him he needs to win... that's the most important... that was the condition on witch torchetti was hired... was to win.... I see us going for broke in the 2020 season and torchetti leaving at the seasons end. You can blame the owner for the direction, but no way he negotiated the trades himself or coached the players. I doubt RKI told Rumble not to play the 1st round d-man and play 18 year old FA's instead...or Shannon to poorly evaluate players being drafted/acquired. |
|
ronmac
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 376
|
Post by ronmac on Feb 14, 2019 7:01:26 GMT -4
I don’t know how else you could explain it, RKI seems to hire knowledge people, but we are always getting the same results
Problem has to be from the owner???
|
|
|
|
Post by leftwinglock on Feb 14, 2019 8:48:57 GMT -4
so maybe with all these revelations coming to light this board owes danny Flynn, Darren rumble, Ritchie thebeau and roger Shannon apologies. we can guarantee that these trades are all controlled by 1 person. and sometimes no matter how much you don't want to do something you just have to go along with what your boss tells you to do.... we did a full rebuild, collected all these picks... and with the owner at the draft table he orchestrated all these trades and we squandered the picks we had. after the bad second half of the 17 season the owner fires the gm after the 18 season because he wanted to finish higher in the standings... we bought a bit that season instead of trading back to continue the rebuild and now in year 2 of a rebuild we bought yet again..... the owner refusing to ok the trades of vets... and we are left with a team with 7 or 8 19 year olds on a roster.... and to top it off as quoted in our own news paper... torchetti says that irving tells him he needs to win... that's the most important... that was the condition on witch torchetti was hired... was to win.... I see us going for broke in the 2020 season and torchetti leaving at the seasons end. You can blame the owner for the direction, but no way he negotiated the trades himself or coached the players. I doubt RKI told Rumble not to play the 1st round d-man and play 18 year old FA's instead...or Shannon to poorly evaluate players being drafted/acquired. the owner is hands on.... in EVERY TRADE and has to sign off on everything...... |
|
