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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 17, 2020 7:46:43 GMT -4
That's what I was talking about. when the 20-21 NHL season starts, I expect to have some semblance of an AHL. the Q has already come out with an optimistic start date of Oct 1 the NHL playoffs might not even be done by then or if they are just barely the AHL won't be starting Oct 1 therefore your point is moot... the 20 year olds will need somewhere to play if the Oct 1 start date actually does materialize it makes lots of sense to expect some 20's that would otherwise be playing pro to be returned to junior If things are good enough for junior leagues to start up, the AHL would also start up. having grown men who live on their own is easier to start up than kids living in billet families. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 17, 2020 8:05:14 GMT -4
the Q has already come out with an optimistic start date of Oct 1 the NHL playoffs might not even be done by then or if they are just barely the AHL won't be starting Oct 1 therefore your point is moot... the 20 year olds will need somewhere to play if the Oct 1 start date actually does materialize it makes lots of sense to expect some 20's that would otherwise be playing pro to be returned to junior If things are good enough for junior leagues to start up, the AHL would also start up. having grown men who live on their own is easier to start up than kids living in billet families. There's too many political issues in both countries for it to be that simple. AHL is primarily in the USA where they're taking a much different approach then we are in Canada. AHL is also tied to the NHL. Where if the NHL is able to play a full season, with fans, then the AHL likely is as well. But the CHL can be tied up due to 1 badly placed flare up because it's a league if teenagers living with billets. I don't think it's simple enough to make it that if 1 is playing the other must be as well. And the situation in Eastern Canada that may allow for a partial QMJHL season might be radically different then the situation effecting a secondary league like the AHL. Maybe it turns out that the Q is good to proceed on Jan 1 but the NHL decides on a 50 game season with no fans and an extended roster within their own bubble like the playoffs will be in order to avoid the massive losses of an AHL season without fans. It's really not hard to see how 1 league could end up playing and 1 league ends up not. From either perspective. |
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Post by jimmy on Jun 17, 2020 8:50:23 GMT -4
If things are good enough for junior leagues to start up, the AHL would also start up. having grown men who live on their own is easier to start up than kids living in billet families. There's too many political issues in both countries for it to be that simple. AHL is primarily in the USA where they're taking a much different approach then we are in Canada. AHL is also tied to the NHL. Where if the NHL is able to play a full season, with fans, then the AHL likely is as well. But the CHL can be tied up due to 1 badly placed flare up because it's a league if teenagers living with billets. I don't think it's simple enough to make it that if 1 is playing the other must be as well. And the situation in Eastern Canada that may allow for a partial QMJHL season might be radically different then the situation effecting a secondary league like the AHL. Maybe it turns out that the Q is good to proceed on Jan 1 but the NHL decides on a 50 game season with no fans and an extended roster within their own bubble like the playoffs will be in order to avoid the massive losses of an AHL season without fans. It's really not hard to see how 1 league could end up playing and 1 league ends up not. From either perspective. Yes, lots of possible scenarios .. - AHL plays but not the Q - Q plays but not the AHL - both play - neither play - both play, but with vastly different start dates to the season - one (or both) play, but with a reduced number of teams |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 17, 2020 8:52:51 GMT -4
If things are good enough for junior leagues to start up, the AHL would also start up. having grown men who live on their own is easier to start up than kids living in billet families. There's too many political issues in both countries for it to be that simple. AHL is primarily in the USA where they're taking a much different approach then we are in Canada. AHL is also tied to the NHL. Where if the NHL is able to play a full season, with fans, then the AHL likely is as well. But the CHL can be tied up due to 1 badly placed flare up because it's a league if teenagers living with billets. I don't think it's simple enough to make it that if 1 is playing the other must be as well. And the situation in Eastern Canada that may allow for a partial QMJHL season might be radically different then the situation effecting a secondary league like the AHL. Maybe it turns out that the Q is good to proceed on Jan 1 but the NHL decides on a 50 game season with no fans and an extended roster within their own bubble like the playoffs will be in order to avoid the massive losses of an AHL season without fans. It's really not hard to see how 1 league could end up playing and 1 league ends up not. From either perspective. If they can't get fans to AHL games, there are cheap ways they can operate to lower costs. I don't see them wanting young players(21-23) not playing any meaningful hockey from March 2020 to Oct 2021. There are better ways they can go than just having 28 player rosters with 5 guys sitting for all but 2-3 games. |
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Post by jimmy on Jun 17, 2020 8:53:18 GMT -4
They have floated the idea of fewer AHL teams and split affiliations - so if each team only has 10-12 spots, sending some signed 20 y/o’s back to junior could be part of the solution. Doubt they would all get sent back - but some might depending on organizational depth they are faced with. If something like that was the case it would be nice to see the CHL allow four 20 year olds per team, it would make sense to have some sort of relaxed rule for the year. That would be a decent idea ... it would give a place to play for the 20 year olds who would otherwise be in the pros. It would also be a bit of a consolation prize for teams like the Cats who loaded up last season for nothing ... those teams would tend to have the higher number of 20 y/o's otherwise destined for the pros that they could now trade off to this year's contenders to help with their rebuild - sort of backdoor compensation. |
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 17, 2020 8:53:41 GMT -4
That's what I was talking about. when the 20-21 NHL season starts, I expect to have some semblance of an AHL. the Q has already come out with an optimistic start date of Oct 1 the NHL playoffs might not even be done by then or if they are just barely the AHL won't be starting Oct 1 therefore your point is moot... the 20 year olds will need somewhere to play if the Oct 1 start date actually does materialize it makes lots of sense to expect some 20's that would otherwise be playing pro to be returned to junior I agree ... I guess. That Oct 1 date probably doesn't happen though. I was confused by that date they picked. It is essentially 2 weeks later than we normally start. We typically have a month long training camp before we start the season ... does that mean training camp starts Sept 1 ? Why pick October 1 ... it is essentially the same start date, but not quite. Was starting at the normal date viewed as being too ambitious and sending the wrong message. Am I misunderstanding the Oct 1 start date to be the start of the regular season, or is this perhaps the opening date for training camps ? I know they simply picked a date so that all teams had a target date to plan for, and all teams would be ready to roll by that date if approved. |
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 17, 2020 8:54:45 GMT -4
the Q has already come out with an optimistic start date of Oct 1 the NHL playoffs might not even be done by then or if they are just barely the AHL won't be starting Oct 1 therefore your point is moot... the 20 year olds will need somewhere to play if the Oct 1 start date actually does materialize it makes lots of sense to expect some 20's that would otherwise be playing pro to be returned to junior If things are good enough for junior leagues to start up, the AHL would also start up. having grown men who live on their own is easier to start up than kids living in billet families. Will they even be able to find enough billet families ? |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 17, 2020 8:56:54 GMT -4
There's too many political issues in both countries for it to be that simple. AHL is primarily in the USA where they're taking a much different approach then we are in Canada. AHL is also tied to the NHL. Where if the NHL is able to play a full season, with fans, then the AHL likely is as well. But the CHL can be tied up due to 1 badly placed flare up because it's a league if teenagers living with billets. I don't think it's simple enough to make it that if 1 is playing the other must be as well. And the situation in Eastern Canada that may allow for a partial QMJHL season might be radically different then the situation effecting a secondary league like the AHL. Maybe it turns out that the Q is good to proceed on Jan 1 but the NHL decides on a 50 game season with no fans and an extended roster within their own bubble like the playoffs will be in order to avoid the massive losses of an AHL season without fans. It's really not hard to see how 1 league could end up playing and 1 league ends up not. From either perspective. Yes, lots of possible scenarios .. - AHL plays but not the Q - Q plays but not the AHL - both play - neither play - both play, but with vastly different start dates to the season - one (or both) play, but with a reduced number of teams One thing people are not considering, there is a lot more financial incentive to have AHL games than junior games(and I see a fiancial incentive for junior teams to NOT want to miss the season). Most teams have 5-10 prospects on the AHL teams, most are not 20, and those guys are not NHL ready, having them just sit or just skate as black aces would be terrible for their development. even if they had to devise a system whereby you had 4 or 5 hubs or if they had the farm team with the main team and play games at on the same day(2pm then 7pm) in the same venue. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 17, 2020 8:58:25 GMT -4
the Q has already come out with an optimistic start date of Oct 1 the NHL playoffs might not even be done by then or if they are just barely the AHL won't be starting Oct 1 therefore your point is moot... the 20 year olds will need somewhere to play if the Oct 1 start date actually does materialize it makes lots of sense to expect some 20's that would otherwise be playing pro to be returned to junior I agree ... I guess. That Oct 1 date probably doesn't happen though. I was confused by that date they picked. It is essentially 2 weeks later than we normally start. We typically have a month long training camp before we start the season ... does that mean training camp starts Sept 1 ? Why pick October 1 ... it is essentially the same start date, but not quite. Was starting at the normal date viewed as being too ambitious and sending the wrong message. Am I misunderstanding the Oct 1 start date to be the start of the regular season, or is this perhaps the opening date for training camps ? I know they simply picked a date so that all teams had a target date to plan for, and all teams would be ready to roll by that date if approved. I think they wanted to pick an optimistic date as best case scenario. I'm sure they will spend part of the summer on logistics and a plan B, C and E. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 17, 2020 8:59:33 GMT -4
If things are good enough for junior leagues to start up, the AHL would also start up. having grown men who live on their own is easier to start up than kids living in billet families. Will they even be able to find enough billet families ? They could have them isolated in a dorm, but that's not ideal with 16 and 17 year olds. A lot easier to do with pros than teens. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 17, 2020 9:02:37 GMT -4
Yes, lots of possible scenarios .. - AHL plays but not the Q - Q plays but not the AHL - both play - neither play - both play, but with vastly different start dates to the season - one (or both) play, but with a reduced number of teams One thing people are not considering, there is a lot more financial incentive to have AHL games than junior games(and I see a fiancial incentive for junior teams to NOT want to miss the season). Most teams have 5-10 prospects on the AHL teams, most are not 20, and those guys are not NHL ready, having them just sit or just skate as black aces would be terrible for their development. even if they had to devise a system whereby you had 4 or 5 hubs or if they had the farm team with the main team and play games at on the same day(2pm then 7pm) in the same venue. People are considering it. But we can also say you're not considering that you just can't play or develop an AHL team with no fans because they're pro's drawing a pro salary and some NHL teams can't afford their own team salary structure without fans so expecting them to also foot the bill for their AHL team to play and develop but not draw any revenue likely doesn't work for anyone. We can all see financial incentives for anyone to not want to miss a season. Nobody is choosing to play in front of an empty rink. It's health guidelines making that call for everyone. But some of us can also see how the potential for catastrophic loss if a CHL season has to be played without fans is also a very realistic scenario meaning that no season and less of a loss could be the route they decide to take. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 17, 2020 9:04:44 GMT -4
I agree ... I guess. That Oct 1 date probably doesn't happen though. I was confused by that date they picked. It is essentially 2 weeks later than we normally start. We typically have a month long training camp before we start the season ... does that mean training camp starts Sept 1 ? Why pick October 1 ... it is essentially the same start date, but not quite. Was starting at the normal date viewed as being too ambitious and sending the wrong message. Am I misunderstanding the Oct 1 start date to be the start of the regular season, or is this perhaps the opening date for training camps ? I know they simply picked a date so that all teams had a target date to plan for, and all teams would be ready to roll by that date if approved. I think they wanted to pick an optimistic date as best case scenario. I'm sure they will spend part of the summer on logistics and a plan B, C and E. I'm sure they do now. And that they've changed 1000 times since mid-March. And will change another 1000 times before the end of the summer. Which is why we're being fed a "business as usual" approach at the moment. Until there is a clear direction to go in....there's no real need to really worry about it for 6-8 more weeks or so when players would normally start heading back to their teams. |
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 17, 2020 9:05:38 GMT -4
Yes, lots of possible scenarios .. - AHL plays but not the Q - Q plays but not the AHL - both play - neither play - both play, but with vastly different start dates to the season - one (or both) play, but with a reduced number of teams One thing people are not considering, there is a lot more financial incentive to have AHL games than junior games(and I see a fiancial incentive for junior teams to NOT want to miss the season). Most teams have 5-10 prospects on the AHL teams, most are not 20, and those guys are not NHL ready, having them just sit or just skate as black aces would be terrible for their development. even if they had to devise a system whereby you had 4 or 5 hubs or if they had the farm team with the main team and play games at on the same day(2pm then 7pm) in the same venue. There is financial incentive for every business owner that is closed by COVID-19 to want to re-open asap. I don't think there is any more incentive for an AHL franchise vs a CHL franchise to get open. They all want to open and make money instead of leaking money as they sit closed. But this is not in the owners hands in Canada. The Provinces will decide when fans can go back to the rink. And you can bet that Quebec would probably allow them to return next week if they were ready. But NB and PEI will be very cautious, NS a little less cautious because that's the way they have been all through this. Its for that reason that US based leagues are probably going to open sooner. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 17, 2020 9:10:42 GMT -4
One thing people are not considering, there is a lot more financial incentive to have AHL games than junior games(and I see a fiancial incentive for junior teams to NOT want to miss the season). Most teams have 5-10 prospects on the AHL teams, most are not 20, and those guys are not NHL ready, having them just sit or just skate as black aces would be terrible for their development. even if they had to devise a system whereby you had 4 or 5 hubs or if they had the farm team with the main team and play games at on the same day(2pm then 7pm) in the same venue. There is financial incentive for every business owner that is closed by COVID-19 to want to re-open asap. I don't think there is any more incentive for an AHL franchise vs a CHL franchise to get open. They all want to open and make money instead of leaking money as they sit closed. But this is not in the owners hands in Canada. The Provinces will decide when fans can go back to the rink. And you can bet that Quebec would probably allow them to return next week if they were ready. But NB and PEI will be very cautious, NS a little less cautious because that's the way they have been all through this. Its for that reason that US based leagues are probably going to open sooner. The difference from the Q to AHL is the money for a season with no fans would come from NHL teams who don't want their prospects careers derailed, not AHL franchises. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 17, 2020 9:15:04 GMT -4
There is financial incentive for every business owner that is closed by COVID-19 to want to re-open asap. I don't think there is any more incentive for an AHL franchise vs a CHL franchise to get open. They all want to open and make money instead of leaking money as they sit closed. But this is not in the owners hands in Canada. The Provinces will decide when fans can go back to the rink. And you can bet that Quebec would probably allow them to return next week if they were ready. But NB and PEI will be very cautious, NS a little less cautious because that's the way they have been all through this. Its for that reason that US based leagues are probably going to open sooner. The difference from the Q to AHL is the money for a season with no fans would come from NHL teams who don't want their prospects careers derailed, not AHL franchises. The NHL isn't going to play a season themselves without fans. They're not going to foot the bill for the AHL to play without fans. They would bring up their top 10-12 guys to be with the NHL team like they plan on this summer. But there's a 0% chance 30 AHL teams play in empty arenas. |
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