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Post by WHEELsnipePARTY on May 25, 2020 19:51:43 GMT -4
I’ve watched Nause play since he was young because he’s the same age as my cousin and I’ve always felt that he was going to be top d in the Q and have a shot at the nhl. Also guys with attitude problems aren’t generally given the C for team canada at events like the u17
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Post by tim08 on May 25, 2020 20:01:07 GMT -4
do we really need another defenceman Poirier villeneve and innis are not going anywhere and desroches is too good to be on the 3rd pairing.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 20:03:55 GMT -4
Wow - beginning to sound like Nause might not even be there at Number 3. . .
No - I've never seen him play for those asking.
Nobody needs to tell me that stats don't tell the whole story - but they do tell me enough that a player who scores 3 goals as a 17 year-old in the USHL isn't likely going to project into a 1st or 2nd round NHL pick a year from now.
I don't need to see somebody play in person to form an opinion that 3 goals and 17 points shows limitations - no matter how strong defensively a player is.
At the same age - Jordan Spence was putting up 49 points in the Q.
Hey - I could be wrong - and certainly not trying to insult anybody's intelligence.
I honestly don't think he merits being taken in the top three in this year's draft - but with so many people speaking of him so highly - I could definitely be wrong on draft day in a couple of weeks.
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Post by scotiahockey on May 25, 2020 20:11:00 GMT -4
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with your post. The mods will never speak to you about a post like that. I’m just letting you know, that if you’re going to respond to what I “said”, then have your facts straight on what I actually said. I’m going to engage and correct you on it, when you’re that far off base. Congratulations, you played hockey and have been watching it for a long time. Just like almost every other poster that frequents these boards but just because you’ve been doing it for a long time doesn’t mean you’re any good at it. People seem to forget that number of posts and time watching the sport doesn’t actually equate to having any knowledge or insight about the sport. You’re free to evaluate and form opinions on players however you like, you can continue to quote statistics that are inaccurate and I will accept your opinion on Nause and his talent level for what it is. I do want to know though, have you watched Nause play in the past 2 seasons or any substantial amount of players play in this draft to be able to formulate an opinion on a player that isn’t rooted strictly off looking at stats? I'm not going to argue with you or anybody else about credibility - it's a message forum. I appreciate what you are saying and I see the logic. No disrespect whatsoever on your hockey posting. It's your evaluation of me that I do not appreciate. It seems condescending and uncalled for with comments such as "doesn't mean you're any good at it." In my own defense, I do somewhere around 500 player evaluations and mini-bios each season and have done it for the past 15 years - many of them from the midget ranks. I like to think that I know what I'm doing - but you could be right - and I'm no good at it.  Peace brother. . . It was a shot at you, no doubt about it. You’ve danced around some of my questions, you’ve thrown a shot at the kids “attitude” and tried to twist my words to question my post, despite the fact I never said those things. I don’t think much of that and then you come here touting your experience posting/watching games/playing the sport, as if that somehow adds credibility to your opinion on Nause, it certainly rubbed me the wrong way. I don’t respect people that boast or think telling me all about what you’ve done will impress me or somehow make your opinion more valid in my eyes. Whether we agree or disagree on a topic, I don’t care. I don’t stay up at night worrying about these boards. What I will tell you though, is that I will respect posters that have an opinion that’s well thought out and adds to the discussion. Not one that they believe is valid because of their experience posting or stat-watching. I do not generally take runs at people on here. Seeing as how you’ve danced around and ignored the question about have you watched Nause and players in this draft, you’re free to correct me if I’m wrong on this but I will go ahead and assume that it’s a no. At which point, your opinion in my eyes is not credible or valid on this particular topic because I do not believe that you can evaluate, rank or form opinions on players by simply watching their stats and not actually having seen them play. |
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Post by MikeC on May 25, 2020 20:20:56 GMT -4
Wow - beginning to sound like Nause might not even be there at Number 3. . . No - I've never seen him play for those asking. Nobody needs to tell me that stats don't tell the whole story - but they do tell me enough that a player who scores 3 goals as a 17 year-old in the USHL isn't likely going to project into a 1st or 2nd round NHL pick a year from now. I don't need to see somebody play in person to form an opinion that 3 goals and 17 points shows limitations - no matter how strong defensively a player is. At the same age - Jordan Spence was putting up 49 points in the Q. Hey - I could be wrong - and certainly not trying to insult anybody's intelligence. I honestly don't think he merits being taken in the top three in this year's draft - but with so many people speaking of him so highly - I could definitely be wrong on draft day in a couple of weeks. Isn't Nause a 2003 born? Which means he was a 16 year old in the USHL this year, and a 15 year old when he last played at Newbridge. |
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Post by scotiahockey on May 25, 2020 20:22:45 GMT -4
Wow - beginning to sound like Nause might not even be there at Number 3. . . No - I've never seen him play for those asking. Nobody needs to tell me that stats don't tell the whole story - but they do tell me enough that a player who scores 3 goals as a 17 year-old in the USHL isn't likely going to project into a 1st or 2nd round NHL pick a year from now. I don't need to see somebody play in person to form an opinion that 3 goals and 17 points shows limitations - no matter how strong defensively a player is. At the same age - Jordan Spence was putting up 49 points in the Q. Hey - I could be wrong - and certainly not trying to insult anybody's intelligence. I honestly don't think he merits being taken in the top three in this year's draft - but with so many people speaking of him so highly - I could definitely be wrong on draft day in a couple of weeks. The list of D with worse stats than those you’re listing, to go in the 1st/2nd round of the NHL draft is quite significant. I don’t think know that you’re grasping just how impressive the season he had was for a 16 year old D in the USHL. No one is saying you need to see them play in person but you do need to see them play, it’s the most important part of the draft process. Spence at the same age was in the MHL, which a person can argue is the worse Jr. A league in Canada. Where he was or what he did though is irrelevant though because trajectories aren’t linear. I don’t think Nause is going top 3 or even top 5 but that has nothing to do with the players skill level. If he does, it’s for factors outside of his actual play/potential on the ice. I just don’t know how you can say he doesn’t merit that selection, when you’ve admitted you haven’t seen the player play. He just finished his 16 year old season in the USHL, it’s not like he’s 2 years older than every prospect in this draft. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 20:36:12 GMT -4
I'm not going to argue with you or anybody else about credibility - it's a message forum. I appreciate what you are saying and I see the logic. No disrespect whatsoever on your hockey posting. It's your evaluation of me that I do not appreciate. It seems condescending and uncalled for with comments such as "doesn't mean you're any good at it." In my own defense, I do somewhere around 500 player evaluations and mini-bios each season and have done it for the past 15 years - many of them from the midget ranks. I like to think that I know what I'm doing - but you could be right - and I'm no good at it. Peace brother. . . It was a shot at you, no doubt about it. You’ve danced around some of my questions, you’ve thrown a shot at the kids “attitude” and tried to twist my words to question my post, despite the fact I never said those things. I don’t think much of that and then you come here touting your experience posting/watching games/playing the sport, as if that somehow adds credibility to your opinion on Nause, it certainly rubbed me the wrong way. I don’t respect people that boast or think telling me all about what you’ve done will impress me or somehow make your opinion more valid in my eyes. Whether we agree or disagree on a topic, I don’t care. I don’t stay up at night worrying about these boards. What I will tell you though, is that I will respect posters that have an opinion that’s well thought out and adds to the discussion. Not one that they believe is valid because of their experience posting or stat-watching. I do not generally take runs at people on here. Seeing as how you’ve danced around and ignored the question about have you watched Nause and players in this draft, you’re free to correct me if I’m wrong on this but I will go ahead and assume that it’s a no. At which point, your opinion in my eyes is not credible or valid on this particular topic because I do not believe that you can evaluate, rank or form opinions on players by simply watching their stats and not actually having seen them play. OK - no dancing. . . This is a Sea Dogs based thread about what they should do with the Number 3 pick. I don't want to hijack the thread. I don't want to disrespect this forum or the Mods who run it by trying to lure visitors to my own forum - which will go unmentioned. On my forum - we have set up a separate board aimed at the Atlantic Midget leagues - in which my mod and I have been doing midget player evaluations - mostly his work as he attends most of the games in person - while my local area does not have a AAA midget team. We also offer midget discussion - game recapping, draft evaluations and so on. My input is in working in conjunction with several top Major Midget programs and coaches and using their player evaluations to try to use them to open doors for their players. We started small last year - but it is quickly expanding and growing. I'm not just talking about any Major Midget coaches - I'm talking about coaches from some of the TOP Major Midget programs - period. We started small - but there is a need for what we are doing - and we want to continue working at it. One of the best things is that there is no pay wall - and our player evaluations are extensive. Now - I know that will mean nothing to most people here, but our hearts are in the right place - and it's all about the players. I apologize to the Mods here for going off topic a bit - but from hosting a forum - that does happen on occasion. Apologies also to the sea Dogs' fans for jacking the thread a bit. I'm not meaning to be a downer or trying to take away from anything. You guys are so lucky - that's as impressive of a young roster as I've seen in several seasons with so much potential. I'm hoping that there will be a season, and I'd love to see the Sea Dogs win the 2022 Memorial Cup. I still stick to my opinion that a 3 goal USHL scorer is not going to translate into a 1st or 2nd round NHL Draft pick a year from now. Call me crazy - but that's just what following the game over the years tells me in my gut. In no way am I trying to say that he isn't a fantastic player or prospect. Too many people have too many good things to say about him for it not to be true - but, you know, I'm only using my own logic from what I've picked up over the years - and I will say once again - I could be wrong. Yes - just saw that Nause is a 2003 birth year - January 20 birth date. |
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Post by j3e4 on May 25, 2020 20:55:10 GMT -4
do we really need another defenceman Poirier villeneve and innis are not going anywhere and desroches is too good to be on the 3rd pairing. When the Sea Dogs won the Memorial Cup they had: Despres (19) Gelinas (19) Bealieu (18) Gagne (18) Durepos (18) So one of those guys was on the 3rd pairing. I can't remember which one exactly. I can't remember the exact quote but Georgie recently said something to the effect of "To win it all, you need 4 top pair D-men". If you have 4 top pair guys then you're likely to have guys playing on the 3rd pair who normally would be top 4. But when you have that kind of depth the 3rd pairing sees a lot more action than they normally would. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 17 year old on the 3rd pair in his first season but still given quite a bit of opportunity. Plus many are speculating that the Sea Dogs could contend again in 2022-2023. This would be a great acquisition to help that cause. They could definitely use an elite 2003 born defenceman. Inniss will be gone by then and it's hard to say which 2002 born players will be available and which 3 they will decide to go with. If the Sea Dogs do pick Nause and he reports then either Sibley, McCallum or Lehmus are likely done with the Sea Dogs. Could be Lehmus if the Sea Dogs have an import forward lined up but my guess would be Sibley. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 25, 2020 21:10:03 GMT -4
I still stick to my opinion that a 3 goal USHL scorer is not going to translate into a 1st or 2nd round NHL Draft pick a year from now. Call me crazy - but that's just what following the game over the years tells me in my gut. This is a very naive hill to die on. Following the game that long would tell you that players do come out of nowhere. But then you'd also know that Nause has been highly touted going on 2+ years now. What does a D's goal scoring at 16 have to do with his NHL draft potential? I've read somewhere...oh right page 1 of this thread....that he had a rather high ppg when compared to others his own age in that league. Defensive prospects are still high in demand. www.eliteprospects.com/player/369942/drew-helleson went top 50 in 2019 and has never lit it up huge scoring wise. Took me 2 minutes to find 1 somewhat comparable example. FYI....we've all followed the game for years. But that doesn't excuse forming strong opinions that aren't based in any fact and justifying them with a gut feel argument. |
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Post by j3e4 on May 25, 2020 21:15:24 GMT -4
Thomas Chabot had 1 goal as a 16 year old in the Q, and it was a flukey goal. A year later he was drafted in the first round of the NHL. He played on the World Junior team at 18 and was the tournament MVP at 19, which likely had more to do with his offence than his defence.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 21:26:33 GMT -4
I still stick to my opinion that a 3 goal USHL scorer is not going to translate into a 1st or 2nd round NHL Draft pick a year from now. Call me crazy - but that's just what following the game over the years tells me in my gut. This is a very naive hill to die on. Following the game that long would tell you that players do come out of nowhere. But then you'd also know that Nause has been highly touted going on 2+ years now. What does a D's goal scoring at 16 have to do with his NHL draft potential? I've read somewhere...oh right page 1 of this thread....that he had a rather high ppg when compared to others his own age in that league. Defensive prospects are still high in demand. www.eliteprospects.com/player/369942/drew-helleson went top 50 in 2019 and has never lit it up huge scoring wise. Took me 2 minutes to find 1 somewhat comparable example. FYI....we've all followed the game for years. But that doesn't excuse forming strong opinions that aren't based in any fact and justifying them with a gut feel argument. I've seen enough Jack Attacks here to last a lifetime - and no interest in going down that road. I'm here for the enjoyment of the discussion - not to become a sparring partner to somebody who has a habit of finding a word - a phrase - or a sentence to pick at - working the cut over the eye - and if need be - posting until the cows come home until you figure you've won the argument. I respect you Jack. If I'm not sure on something - I find myself gravitating to your posts and I find that you are right almost all of the time - whether it be hockey - Trump - covid or anything else. Not looking to become your sparring partner - and I'm good with dying on that hill. It's a message forum based on opinion. Isn't it you that has posted multiple times that you do not actually attend games? Pick away at that cut Jack - LOL - nobody does it better - LOL. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 25, 2020 21:43:28 GMT -4
This is a very naive hill to die on. Following the game that long would tell you that players do come out of nowhere. But then you'd also know that Nause has been highly touted going on 2+ years now. What does a D's goal scoring at 16 have to do with his NHL draft potential? I've read somewhere...oh right page 1 of this thread....that he had a rather high ppg when compared to others his own age in that league. Defensive prospects are still high in demand. www.eliteprospects.com/player/369942/drew-helleson went top 50 in 2019 and has never lit it up huge scoring wise. Took me 2 minutes to find 1 somewhat comparable example. FYI....we've all followed the game for years. But that doesn't excuse forming strong opinions that aren't based in any fact and justifying them with a gut feel argument. I've seen enough Jack Attacks here to last a lifetime - and no interest in going down that road. I'm here for the enjoyment of the discussion - not to become a sparring partner to somebody who has a habit of finding a word - a phrase - or a sentence to pick at - working the cut over the eye - and if need be - posting until the cows come home until you figure you've won the argument. I respect you Jack. If I'm not sure on something - I find myself gravitating to your posts and I find that you are right almost all of the time - whether it be hockey - Trump - covid or anything else. Not looking to become your sparring partner - and I'm good with dying on that hill. It's a message forum based on opinion. Isn't it you that has posted multiple times that you do not actually attend games? Pick away at that cut Jack - LOL - nobody does it better - LOL. You say all that yet your entire post was about me lol I dont hide the fact I dont go to every game. And admit i've never seen a major midget game live in my life. But i'm not the one saying the kid can't get drafted based on 1 stat that most that have seen him would agree has little to do with his draft potential. Based on the opinions i've read anyway. Do you have a forum where people are saying the opposite? It's not about sparring partners or who goes to what games. It's about 1 statement that goals as a 16yr old in USHL translates to NHL draft potential. I think you'd wish you hadn't gone down this road and didnt say what you did as you're getting pretty defensive and personal in response to a post about a kids draft opinion. If you've seen him and have lots of opinion shouldnt that be the basis in your opinion? Picking 1 stat...goals for a D at that....is just weak. No matter who says it. Everyone sees that. And you're not that dumb based on your posts so i'm not sure what your point is with all that. You can't have it both ways as experienced fan yet want to not defend statements not backed by any logic. Especially when it's vs a respected poster like scotiahockey who knows his shit. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 25, 2020 21:45:04 GMT -4
Thomas Chabot had 1 goal as a 16 year old in the Q, and it was a flukey goal. A year later he was drafted in the first round of the NHL. He played on the World Junior team at 18 and was the tournament MVP at 19, which likely had more to do with his offence than his defence. There's probably many examples if you look hard enough. 16yr old D dont score big in the Q. But the ones getting drafted are usually picked after their 17yr old season. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 21:58:07 GMT -4
I've seen enough Jack Attacks here to last a lifetime - and no interest in going down that road. I'm here for the enjoyment of the discussion - not to become a sparring partner to somebody who has a habit of finding a word - a phrase - or a sentence to pick at - working the cut over the eye - and if need be - posting until the cows come home until you figure you've won the argument. I respect you Jack. If I'm not sure on something - I find myself gravitating to your posts and I find that you are right almost all of the time - whether it be hockey - Trump - covid or anything else. Not looking to become your sparring partner - and I'm good with dying on that hill. It's a message forum based on opinion. Isn't it you that has posted multiple times that you do not actually attend games? Pick away at that cut Jack - LOL - nobody does it better - LOL. You say all that yet your entire post was about me lol I dont hide the fact I dont go to every game. And admit i've never seen a major midget game live in my life. But i'm not the one saying the kid can't get drafted based on 1 stat that most that have seen him would agree has little to do with his draft potential. Based on the opinions i've read anyway. Do you have a forum where people are saying the opposite? It's not about sparring partners or who goes to what games. It's about 1 statement that goals as a 16yr old in USHL translates to NHL draft potential. I think you'd wish you hadn't gone down this road and didnt say what you did as you're getting pretty defensive and personal in response to a post about a kids draft opinion. If you've seen him and have lots of opinion shouldnt that be the basis in your opinion? Picking 1 stat...goals for a D at that....is just weak. No matter who says it. Everyone sees that. And you're not that dumb based on your posts so i'm not sure what your point is with all that. You can't have it both ways as experienced fan yet want to not defend statements not backed by any logic. Especially when it's vs a respected poster like scotiahockey who knows his shit. Whatever Jack. To me it's about the right to have an opinion - and the right to voice it. I have no problem whatsoever standing by my opinions - or I would have learned a long time ago not to voice them. Scotiahockey and I got off on the wrong foot - but we seem to have shown a bit of maturity in an exchange of personal PM's - and although I can't speak for him - we seem to have discovered that we aren't that far apart. I find this forum fun and entertaining - but that's all it is to me - not some kind of a battleground. I have my interests elsewhere. Just looking to expand my horizons a bit and hopefully become a Moncton Wildcats' STH now that I have the time. For sure - there are D-men that have been low scoring and gone on to play in the NHL and be drafted highly. That wasn't my argument. I'm just guessing that Evan Nause isn't going to project into a 1st or 2nd round draft pick - and I don't think he will be chosen in the top 3 of the QMJHL Draft. Not trying to start WWIII. I could be proven wrong in two weeks - and everybody can then gloat about being right. What I can say though, is that if I'm proven right - there will be no gloating. They are opinions Jack - not declarations of war. . . Dying on that hill? LOL - a bit of a stretch - don't you think? |
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 25, 2020 22:16:39 GMT -4
You say all that yet your entire post was about me lol I dont hide the fact I dont go to every game. And admit i've never seen a major midget game live in my life. But i'm not the one saying the kid can't get drafted based on 1 stat that most that have seen him would agree has little to do with his draft potential. Based on the opinions i've read anyway. Do you have a forum where people are saying the opposite? It's not about sparring partners or who goes to what games. It's about 1 statement that goals as a 16yr old in USHL translates to NHL draft potential. I think you'd wish you hadn't gone down this road and didnt say what you did as you're getting pretty defensive and personal in response to a post about a kids draft opinion. If you've seen him and have lots of opinion shouldnt that be the basis in your opinion? Picking 1 stat...goals for a D at that....is just weak. No matter who says it. Everyone sees that. And you're not that dumb based on your posts so i'm not sure what your point is with all that. You can't have it both ways as experienced fan yet want to not defend statements not backed by any logic. Especially when it's vs a respected poster like scotiahockey who knows his shit. Whatever Jack. To me it's about the right to have an opinion - and the right to voice it. I have no problem whatsoever standing by my opinions - or I would have learned a long time ago not to voice them. Scotiahockey and I got off on the wrong foot - but we seem to have shown a bit of maturity in an exchange of personal PM's - and although I can't speak for him - we seem to have discovered that we aren't that far apart. I find this forum fun and entertaining - but that's all it is to me - not some kind of a battleground. I have my interests elsewhere. Just looking to expand my horizons a bit and hopefully become a Moncton Wildcats' STH now that I have the time. For sure - there are D-men that have been low scoring and gone on to play in the NHL and be drafted highly. That wasn't my argument. I'm just guessing that Evan Nause isn't going to project into a 1st or 2nd round draft pick - and I don't think he will be chosen in the top 3 of the QMJHL Draft. Not trying to start WWIII. I could be proven wrong in two weeks - and everybody can then gloat about being right. What I can say though, is that if I'm proven right - there will be no gloating. They are opinions Jack - not declarations of war. . . Dying on that hill? LOL - a bit of a stretch - don't you think? No, because it was and is a stupid statement. That people have already found multiple examples to prove otherwise. And recent examples....not exactly 2003 draft kind of examples. You're entitled to an opinion...people are entitled to comment how out of touch it is with reality and post examples to prove why. That's how this works. That's also why using experience to justify a claim like you did was a stupid hill to die on. You watching hockey has nothing to do with an opinion that X goals at 16 translates into Y results for the NHL draft. Especially when people who admittedly watch less hockey then you keep digging up reasons why. If you said you think Nause doesn't have the size, talent, shot, strength, skating, etc to match the draft hype that's an opinion you're entitled to. Saying your years of watching hockey allow you to think goals at 16 in USHL translates into NHL draft success with 0 referencing done to try and prove it and 0 opinion shared to even try to defend it isn't exactly the same argument. |
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