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Post by SteveUL on Nov 1, 2007 8:27:49 GMT -4
Another loss, and as sadly as it sounds, another deserved loss. The effort was a lot more obvious tonight and the powerplay was ticking, but when you get outplayed that badly 5 on 5 and permit the other team to take 40 shots, you aren't gonna win unless you get outstanding goaltending. The Wildcats got very very good goaltending and still couldn't pull it off. Someone answer me. Why is Brenton still playing? I don't want to pick on him and blame the losses on him. I'm simply nitpicking more questionable decisions being taken by the coaching staff. "Someone answer me. Why is Brenton still playing? I don't want to pick on him and blame the losses on him" No answer here! Some of us are asking themselves the same question! Trade bait in a package perhaps....... He is an important PK guy ... and with Murdoch out for a long duration he is needed even more. Our PK is not great to start ... take away one of our better PK guys and our PK gets worse ... and maybe we don't get involved in any more one goal games and have that chance to tie/win late in a game. He isn't out there for his offense. Its sad that you all find it neccesary to pick on him because he doesn't score ... that is simply not his role. It would be great if he did score. But I think your frustration should be directed at the guys that should be scoring but are not ... if they were to actually start filling the role that they are supposed to we actually might start winning games. |
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Post by Optimus Reim on Nov 1, 2007 9:03:34 GMT -4
Ithink in the last 5 or 6 games Brenton has played very well and has created quite a few chances for himself and his line. He will start to make things happen once he buries the first one IMO. He can score, I just think he is putting too mcuh pressure on himself to make sure he stays in the lineup.
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Post by Sébastien on Nov 1, 2007 9:16:29 GMT -4
Steve, to answer to your post, my frustration isn't after the player himself. I don't want to pick on him. My beef is with the coaching staff as they take the decisions as to which players are on the ice and when.
I am not saying that I want Brenton to score and become a 20 goal scorer. That would be ludicrous. However, I don't believe that his defensive game is so good and important to this team that he is indispensable. I also have been unsatisfied with Bezak and let it known (although he has picked up his game), I have been unsatisfied with Morehouse, although he has been playing much better since the Gatineau game.
The point is both of these players can and are currently contributing to the team, even if it is not on the scoreboard (Morehouse). I have been impressed with MacAusland, even if he was not scoring.
The thing is Brenton, to me, is not a super defensive player (gets pushed around in his own zone way too much for that and has trouble clearing his own zone because of his size) and as an 18 year old, I don't expect him to be much more dominant next year. Lessard has been struggling ever since the 1st couple of games of the year, but his potential is much higher and he could become very important to this team next year. That being said, he needs to start making things happen.
Why would I want Brenton to take a seat? Because I would much prefer to see the young guys more who will make an impact in the future then a player who is already 18 and wont. It's not because of Brenton, but rather because of whom is left in the stands because of his presence.
We're already losing and the one goal games are more due to Riopel then anything. I can hardly believe that sitting Brenton will automatically make the Wildcats get dominated. They already are.
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Post by Dalkiel on Nov 1, 2007 9:18:21 GMT -4
"Someone answer me. Why is Brenton still playing? I don't want to pick on him and blame the losses on him" No answer here! Some of us are asking themselves the same question! Trade bait in a package perhaps....... He is an important PK guy ... and with Murdoch out for a long duration he is needed even more. Our PK is not great to start ... take away one of our better PK guys and our PK gets worse ... and maybe we don't get involved in any more one goal games and have that chance to tie/win late in a game. He isn't out there for his offense. Its sad that you all find it neccesary to pick on him because he doesn't score ... that is simply not his role. It would be great if he did score. But I think your frustration should be directed at the guys that should be scoring but are not ... if they were to actually start filling the role that they are supposed to we actually might start winning games. I can't justify having him in our linup just for being an "important PK guy" on a poor PK, if he were more like Gaudet where he could kill a penalty by himself then that would be a different story. |
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kbt
Draft Pick
Posts: 51
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Post by kbt on Nov 1, 2007 9:55:59 GMT -4
It was a nice play, nice shot, Riopel couldn't handle that one.  I could have handled that one. How about the other 39? |
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 1, 2007 11:19:18 GMT -4
He is an important PK guy ... and with Murdoch out for a long duration he is needed even more. Our PK is not great to start ... take away one of our better PK guys and our PK gets worse ... and maybe we don't get involved in any more one goal games and have that chance to tie/win late in a game. He isn't out there for his offense. Its sad that you all find it neccesary to pick on him because he doesn't score ... that is simply not his role. It would be great if he did score. But I think your frustration should be directed at the guys that should be scoring but are not ... if they were to actually start filling the role that they are supposed to we actually might start winning games. I can't justify having him in our linup just for being an "important PK guy" on a poor PK, if he were more like Gaudet where he could kill a penalty by himself then that would be a different story. So you'd rather put in a kid that is just as good offensively as Brenton ... and not as good defensively and won't see any time on the PK. Brown and Stephens will have lots of time to develop ... every rookie went through their 1st half in and out of the lineup ... unless they showed we couldn't afford to take them out of the lineup as MacAusland is doing. Personally I'd rather see guys like Cameron and Lessard come out of the lineup before Brenton ... Cameron first ... as they are not contributing much in either end of the rink. Lessard is contributing more defensively as he also does PK work ... Cameron is only an offensive player but brings no offense. I don't see what Detroit saw in him ... didn't see it last year either. If Cameron would start playing like he is a 25-30 goal man we might start winning ... thats where he should be this year .. somewhere around a ppg also. |
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Post by Dalkiel on Nov 1, 2007 12:24:32 GMT -4
I can't justify having him in our linup just for being an "important PK guy" on a poor PK, if he were more like Gaudet where he could kill a penalty by himself then that would be a different story. So you'd rather put in a kid that is just as good offensively as Brenton ... and not as good defensively and won't see any time on the PK. Brown and Stephens will have lots of time to develop ... every rookie went through their 1st half in and out of the lineup ... unless they showed we couldn't afford to take them out of the lineup as MacAusland is doing. Personally I'd rather see guys like Cameron and Lessard come out of the lineup before Brenton ... Cameron first ... as they are not contributing much in either end of the rink. Lessard is contributing more defensively as he also does PK work ... Cameron is only an offensive player but brings no offense. I don't see what Detroit saw in him ... didn't see it last year either. If Cameron would start playing like he is a 25-30 goal man we might start winning ... thats where he should be this year .. somewhere around a ppg also. Yes I would actually like to see someone like Stephens or Brown in there with the same amount of offense as they will improve where I believe that Brenton has not improved at all since last year at the beggining of the season. What would really happen if we stuck someone else in his place on the PK??? Can't get much worse, maybe even someone else could be better on the PK or maybe get better at it, who knows? I very much agree with your statements about Cameron and Lessard and any other underachievers sitting out a game or 2. |
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Post by t-dude on Nov 1, 2007 12:49:51 GMT -4
Anyone else think it might be time to give up and trade whatever 20 y/o's we can and build for next year?
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 1, 2007 12:50:49 GMT -4
So you'd rather put in a kid that is just as good offensively as Brenton ... and not as good defensively and won't see any time on the PK. Brown and Stephens will have lots of time to develop ... every rookie went through their 1st half in and out of the lineup ... unless they showed we couldn't afford to take them out of the lineup as MacAusland is doing. Personally I'd rather see guys like Cameron and Lessard come out of the lineup before Brenton ... Cameron first ... as they are not contributing much in either end of the rink. Lessard is contributing more defensively as he also does PK work ... Cameron is only an offensive player but brings no offense. I don't see what Detroit saw in him ... didn't see it last year either. If Cameron would start playing like he is a 25-30 goal man we might start winning ... thats where he should be this year .. somewhere around a ppg also. Yes I would actually like to see someone like Stephens or Brown in there with the same amount of offense as they will improve where I believe that Brenton has not improved at all since last year at the beggining of the season. What would really happen if we stuck someone else in his place on the PK??? Can't get much worse, maybe even someone else could be better on the PK or maybe get better at it, who knows? I very much agree with your statements about Cameron and Lessard and any other underachievers sitting out a game or 2. We can't get much worse if we weaken our PK ? The difference is that by the end of the 2nd the game will be out of reach instead of having a chance to tie it in the final minute of the 3rd. Thats worse IMO. Its not so much that our PK guys aren't doing a good job ... but more of the PK system that we seem to be employing ... we aren't putting pressure on the point men like teams do to us ... opposing Dmen are having all the time in the world to handle the puck and set up. Last year in the playoffs vs Halifax they ran over our PK easily ... then in the final game (might have been game 6) we adjusted and started playing our box a little wider so the guys at the top could pressure the Dmen and force them to move the puck quicker than they wanted to. It was a much more successful system than what we do now ... but too little too late. Collapsing the box down to the tops of the circles is supposed to save the energy of the PK guys ... less movement to block a lane ... and it clogs up the slot making it harder to get shots through. But its not working for us ... and nobody else seems to be employing that system in the Q .. and we have the 2nd worst PK efficiency in the Q ... luckily Vic is the worst (barely) and we get them Friday. |
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Post by Dalkiel on Nov 1, 2007 13:22:56 GMT -4
Yes I would actually like to see someone like Stephens or Brown in there with the same amount of offense as they will improve where I believe that Brenton has not improved at all since last year at the beggining of the season. What would really happen if we stuck someone else in his place on the PK??? Can't get much worse, maybe even someone else could be better on the PK or maybe get better at it, who knows? I very much agree with your statements about Cameron and Lessard and any other underachievers sitting out a game or 2. We can't get much worse if we weaken our PK ? The difference is that by the end of the 2nd the game will be out of reach instead of having a chance to tie it in the final minute of the 3rd. Thats worse IMO. Its not so much that our PK guys aren't doing a good job ... but more of the PK system that we seem to be employing ... we aren't putting pressure on the point men like teams do to us ... opposing Dmen are having all the time in the world to handle the puck and set up. Last year in the playoffs vs Halifax they ran over our PK easily ... then in the final game (might have been game 6) we adjusted and started playing our box a little wider so the guys at the top could pressure the Dmen and force them to move the puck quicker than they wanted to. It was a much more successful system than what we do now ... but too little too late. Collapsing the box down to the tops of the circles is supposed to save the energy of the PK guys ... less movement to block a lane ... and it clogs up the slot making it harder to get shots through. But its not working for us ... and nobody else seems to be employing that system in the Q .. and we have the 2nd worst PK efficiency in the Q ... luckily Vic is the worst (barely) and we get them Friday. Definatly agree but thats getting away from the debate that we were having about Brenton where my point is simply that I'd rather suffer a little now (losses) for a bigger gain later by developing players that will have a bigger impact for us down the road rather than giving icetime to a player that shows little to no potential and has not improved in 100+ games. |
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Post by Sébastien on Nov 1, 2007 13:49:17 GMT -4
I agree with Steve on a couple of things.
I fully agree that Cameron needs to step it up big time. Not only is not producing costing the team, but his giveaways in the neutral zone and at the offensive blueline puts much pressure on our defense. The blind back passes to nobody must stop. He needs to be at least demoted to the fourth line for a game or benched or in the stands. The message needs to pass. I hate readin Hodge riping on Labelle all the while sounding like Cameron is having a very hot start.
I also agree with the system on the pk. If you look at the comment I made after the game against Gatineau, I pretty much ripped the coaching staff for having the players play a diamond system and and collapsing box as opposed to a wide box. The current system is obviously not working. Our powerplay has been much better of late but the pk continues to suck.
As for t-dude, I don't think the team should pack it in yet. However that does not mean that Flynn should not be entertaining offers. If there's a good deal that comes along, by God go for it. If at Christmas we're still stuck down in the standings, I wouldn't be surprised to see some players being traded. I don't know how much our 20s are worth, but Eagles might be worth something too. Players like Lessard too.
Obviously next year is not our go for it year. I don't think the team will be selling the farm but I wouldn't be surprised to see some forwards go for either draft picks or defensemen.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 1, 2007 13:58:46 GMT -4
I agree with Steve on a couple of things. I fully agree that Cameron needs to step it up big time. Not only is not producing costing the team, but his giveaways in the neutral zone and at the offensive blueline puts much pressure on our defense. The blind back passes to nobody must stop. He needs to be at least demoted to the fourth line for a game or benched or in the stands. The message needs to pass. I hate readin Hodge riping on Labelle all the while sounding like Cameron is having a very hot start. I also agree with the system on the pk. If you look at the comment I made after the game against Gatineau, I pretty much ripped the coaching staff for having the players play a diamond system and and collapsing box as opposed to a wide box. The current system is obviously not working. Our powerplay has been much better of late but the pk continues to suck. As for t-dude, I don't think the team should pack it in yet. However that does not mean that Flynn should not be entertaining offers. If there's a good deal that comes along, by God go for it. If at Christmas we're still stuck down in the standings, I wouldn't be surprised to see some players being traded. I don't know how much our 20s are worth, but Eagles might be worth something too. Players like Lessard too. Obviously next year is not our go for it year. I don't think the team will be selling the farm but I wouldn't be surprised to see some forwards go for either draft picks or defensemen. Next year should be a year to take a pretty big step forward because guys like Riopel Cameron Lessard Pianosi Labelle(if still here) Baca Bezak Wilson Brannon Boyle will all be 19. The following year, all but 3 of those guys have to go on top of the 3 20 year olds that return(Eagles Sill? Gomes? Eastman?). |
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Post by Sébastien on Nov 1, 2007 14:12:59 GMT -4
Next year should be a year to take a pretty big step forward because guys like Riopel Cameron Lessard Pianosi Labelle(if still here) Baca Bezak Wilson Brannon Boyle will all be 19. The following year, all but 3 of those guys have to go on top of the 3 20 year olds that return(Eagles Sill? Gomes? Eastman?). I agree to that in theory. Our team's age group is set to compete next year. That being said, do we have the players to compete next year? Our 19 year old crop will be rather poor if we look at the results they are currently giving. Cameron, Lessard, Labelle, Pianosi. These players will determine what happens next year. If they don't progress any, as has happened so far this year (except for Lessard, although his progression has not been in the offensive categories). If Cameron continues to give the puck away on a consistent basis, if Labelle can't crack the lineup and if Pianosi can't create any offense all the while being poor defensively, the Wildcats will have very tough decisions to make. If they play like everyone knows they can and should be playing, then next year should be a very nice ride. Bezak has shown improvement over the last little while. Baca keeps getting better every game. Riopel is one of the best goalies in the league IMO. Brannon is a great 3rd line player and Wilson was playing great before is apparent injury (never got that confirmed). Boyle and Brenton will be non factors really for next year. Our current 18 YO crop is full of questions right now and I do not feel comfortable going into a "contending" season with that many question marks. |
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Post by jimmy on Nov 1, 2007 14:27:06 GMT -4
We can't get much worse if we weaken our PK ? The difference is that by the end of the 2nd the game will be out of reach instead of having a chance to tie it in the final minute of the 3rd. Thats worse IMO. Who says the PK would automatically be worse? If the PK currently sucks, it is partially because some of the guys on it are not being effective - IMO Brenton is one of them, loses too many battles for my liking, resulting in us failing to clear the puck when we should otherwise have been able to do so ... maybe Brown could step in and play PK as or more effectively than Brenton ... it seems that the main reason people use to justify playing Brenton is "he plays PK" - yeah, well, the PK sucks ... so find another reason ... he has played a bit better lately, but so have Brown, Stephens, and Labelle, and all have much more upside IMO. |
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 1, 2007 14:42:41 GMT -4
We can't get much worse if we weaken our PK ? The difference is that by the end of the 2nd the game will be out of reach instead of having a chance to tie it in the final minute of the 3rd. Thats worse IMO. Who says the PK would automatically be worse? If the PK currently sucks, it is partially because some of the guys on it are not being effective - IMO Brenton is one of them, loses too many battles for my liking, resulting in us failing to clear the puck when we should otherwise have been able to do so ... maybe Brown could step in and play PK as or more effectively than Brenton ... it seems that the main reason people use to justify playing Brenton is "he plays PK" - yeah, well, the PK sucks ... so find another reason ... he has played a bit better lately, but so have Brown, Stephens, and Labelle, and all have much more upside IMO. I'm all for changes as the status quo is not working. But I just don't like Brenton being the whipping boy when our biggest problem is scoring goals and that just isn't his role. I'm explaining why he is in the lineup and it is related to the PK ... he has quick feet ... and guys like Brown, and Stephens don't ... and Labelle doesn't kill penalties. If Murdoch came back soon then I'd be all for removing Brenton in favour of a younger player because then Brenton becomes redundant. Brown and Stephens should be inserted in place of guys like Cameron who don't play a defensive role. I'd like to see Cameron sit out for a good 3 games like Labelle has to do regularly. He doesn't deserve anything ahead of Labelle IMO. |
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