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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 28, 2009 15:00:22 GMT -4
reality: the problem you speak of is the reason some of us are not only upset but embarassed by how this organization is basically ignoring the standings, the division, and the playoff format to try and win after letting so many good players leave in recent years with nothing in return.
When you rely heavily on your draft picks then get into a habit of trading multiple high picks and prospects to build a team to go nowhere then disaster is bound to follow.
We're not only weak in terms of prospects, we're now down another 1st after moving 1 for Adam and we basically moved 1 in Finn for Ward last year.
It's really no wonder we don't have much depth when you look at our trading record the last few years.
Constant buying and no selling will surely get you in the basement eventually and once you're there it's not easy to get out.
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Post by Clubber Lang on Dec 28, 2009 15:48:18 GMT -4
Clubber, we've all heard the 2 different theories about the decision to buy or sell. The 1st was that the shareholders were split down the middle about buying or selling and that they had heated meetings about the decision, with the sell group finally giving in. The 2nd was that the shareholders decided to leave the decision up to Mario. In neither of those scenarios does it appear that Mario is being handicapped by upstairs influences. On the other hand, it sounds like some of the shareholders could actually see the big picture and wanted to plan for the future for a change. It's easy to look back and say we should have traded Kevin Asselin and a D that year to prepare for the future Val D'Or series but the Eagles went for it. Despite that, the Eagles came, Oh so close, in that Val D'Or series but some fans might also say I wish we hadn't traded Barberio and Brannon who we could have certainly used the last 2 years. Sometimes, it's very difficult to make the "Buy or Sell" decision but this year it just doesn't seem to have been a very difficult decision at all. Even a 1st round win will not be worth the ultimate price! You got to spend money to make money as well and have no regrets giving up a Barberio or Brannon but that could have been avoided if Asselin was moved to let's say Moncton and piece of that deal for Bourdon could have been Barbeiro as well so the impact is not as significant. If don't think the shareholders have given Mario the green light. I pretty much and 100% sure they didn't give it to him. If they did and he is doing what he is doing now he is baked.
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Post by Murph on Dec 28, 2009 15:52:02 GMT -4
reality: the problem you speak of is the reason some of us are not only upset but embarassed by how this organization is basically ignoring the standings, the division, and the playoff format to try and win after letting so many good players leave in recent years with nothing in return. When you rely heavily on your draft picks then get into a habit of trading multiple high picks and prospects to build a team to go nowhere then disaster is bound to follow. We're not only weak in terms of prospects, we're now down another 1st after moving 1 for Adam and we basically moved 1 in Finn for Ward last year. It's really no wonder we don't have much depth when you look at our trading record the last few years. Constant buying and no selling will surely get you in the basement eventually and once you're there it's not easy to get out. It appears as though you're on a similar path as the Mooseheads were on after they aquired Marchand.... only you have no run or "contender" to show for it. After this year, you'll have basically Roy (19) in nets, Meilleur (20) and Ellis (18) on defence, and MacDougall (20), Hertzberg (19) and Horyl (20) up front as the only guys that should be counted on to contribute anything. That's a bad spot to be in, and only Roy will have big time trade value next December (then Ellis the following year). I don't see how you can realistically keep guys like Adam, Brodeur.... this year, and expect to not have a team at the basement on the division, for at minimum 2 years, maybe even longer. If I mirror that to the Mooseheads, they too had no 1st rounder, and only 1 big trade chip (MacMillian). The Mooseheads caught some breaks though. They landed some NCAA guys (Bernard, Lemieux, Andrews, Bishop, Gillard) which Cape Breton doesn't have much of a history of being able to do. They got lucky in that a young talent (Clarke) requested a trade specifically to Halifax. Plus on top of that, they managed to draft fairly well, finding guys like Desjardins, Hannay, Boudreau and Lewis. A lot of things went their way, when it came to rebuilding. It's probably unlikely that Cape Breton has similar luck. I think you absolutely need to deal Adam. Crazy if you don't.
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Post by Clubber Lang on Dec 28, 2009 16:12:33 GMT -4
reality: the problem you speak of is the reason some of us are not only upset but embarassed by how this organization is basically ignoring the standings, the division, and the playoff format to try and win after letting so many good players leave in recent years with nothing in return. When you rely heavily on your draft picks then get into a habit of trading multiple high picks and prospects to build a team to go nowhere then disaster is bound to follow. We're not only weak in terms of prospects, we're now down another 1st after moving 1 for Adam and we basically moved 1 in Finn for Ward last year. It's really no wonder we don't have much depth when you look at our trading record the last few years. Constant buying and no selling will surely get you in the basement eventually and once you're there it's not easy to get out. It appears as though you're on a similar path as the Mooseheads were on after they aquired Marchand.... only you have no run or "contender" to show for it. After this year, you'll have basically Roy (19) in nets, Meilleur (20) and Ellis (18) on defence, and MacDougall (20), Hertzberg (19) and Horyl (20) up front as the only guys that should be counted on to contribute anything. That's a bad spot to be in, and only Roy will have big time trade value next December (then Ellis the following year). I don't see how you can realistically keep guys like Adam, Brodeur.... this year, and expect to not have a team at the basement on the division, for at minimum 2 years, maybe even longer. If I mirror that to the Mooseheads, they too had no 1st rounder, and only 1 big trade chip (MacMillian). The Mooseheads caught some breaks though. They landed some NCAA guys (Bernard, Lemieux, Andrews, Bishop, Gillard) which Cape Breton doesn't have much of a history of being able to do. They got lucky in that a young talent (Clarke) requested a trade specifically to Halifax. Plus on top of that, they managed to draft fairly well, finding guys like Desjardins, Hannay, Boudreau and Lewis. A lot of things went their way, when it came to rebuilding. It's probably unlikely that Cape Breton has similar luck. I think you absolutely need to deal Adam. Crazy if you don't. I know it is never too late but if they go back and trade Adam what egg on the face the whole organization would have by going out and getting Legault and what we paid for him. In this case it is too late to trade Adam they already screwed themselves. I got to think Mario has to have some brains to gauge what the heck is going on. This unlike a professional sport where if you have the money and you have no salary cap or lots of room to play with you can go out and aquire some players. The only way you restock the shelves here is to sell off assets that won't be returning next year and build from there. I just don't get what they have done and as far as JB comments go about lack of direction/planning he is bang on. That is the whole problem in a nutshell!!!
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Post by EagleFan2009 on Dec 28, 2009 16:46:22 GMT -4
They don't see that though it seems. They are letting themselves think they can play with any team so thats not letting them see the big picture maybe?
We are deffinlity going to be in the basement for a few years, i think we all realize that by now. I really liked the attitude on the ice last night. Leaders being leaders, will over skill. He is obviously taking his shot and we can complain all we want for the next week and a half or we can start talking about what we can get to make this team to be a possible contender.
I am past the point of wanting to sell now. It's a pipe dream whether we like it or not. Add some depth and take your last shot and start over. If he doesn't use Meilleur and Roy as trade chips to go at the draft next year, he is not getting anything.
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Post by Murph on Dec 28, 2009 16:47:40 GMT -4
It appears as though you're on a similar path as the Mooseheads were on after they aquired Marchand.... only you have no run or "contender" to show for it. After this year, you'll have basically Roy (19) in nets, Meilleur (20) and Ellis (18) on defence, and MacDougall (20), Hertzberg (19) and Horyl (20) up front as the only guys that should be counted on to contribute anything. That's a bad spot to be in, and only Roy will have big time trade value next December (then Ellis the following year). I don't see how you can realistically keep guys like Adam, Brodeur.... this year, and expect to not have a team at the basement on the division, for at minimum 2 years, maybe even longer. If I mirror that to the Mooseheads, they too had no 1st rounder, and only 1 big trade chip (MacMillian). The Mooseheads caught some breaks though. They landed some NCAA guys (Bernard, Lemieux, Andrews, Bishop, Gillard) which Cape Breton doesn't have much of a history of being able to do. They got lucky in that a young talent (Clarke) requested a trade specifically to Halifax. Plus on top of that, they managed to draft fairly well, finding guys like Desjardins, Hannay, Boudreau and Lewis. A lot of things went their way, when it came to rebuilding. It's probably unlikely that Cape Breton has similar luck. I think you absolutely need to deal Adam. Crazy if you don't. I know it is never too late but if they go back and trade Adam what egg on the face the whole organization would have by going out and getting Legault and what we paid for him. In this case it is too late to trade Adam they already screwed themselves. I got to think Mario has to have some brains to gauge what the heck is going on. This unlike a professional sport where if you have the money and you have no salary cap or lots of room to play with you can go out and aquire some players. The only way you restock the shelves here is to sell off assets that won't be returning next year and build from there. I just don't get what they have done and as far as JB comments go about lack of direction/planning he is bang on. That is the whole problem in a nutshell!!! Trading Adam is still an easy sell. You say the Legault deal, allowed you to trade Adam. Sure Legault doesn't replace Adam one for one, but he helps offset the loss. All you gave up for Legault was an injured player, 3rd/4th liner, plus a couple picks. You'll get more than that for Adam. You sell it that way. Our team is worse now, but not by a whole lot, and we have all this loot to show for Adam. At least Saint John had the sense last year to realise they didn't have the horses, and were proactive in waiving the white flag, despite commiting to last year at some point. I think their fans forgive them now.
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Post by hal on Dec 28, 2009 17:05:19 GMT -4
Clubber, we've all heard the 2 different theories about the decision to buy or sell. The 1st was that the shareholders were split down the middle about buying or selling and that they had heated meetings about the decision, with the sell group finally giving in. The 2nd was that the shareholders decided to leave the decision up to Mario. In neither of those scenarios does it appear that Mario is being handicapped by upstairs influences. On the other hand, it sounds like some of the shareholders could actually see the big picture and wanted to plan for the future for a change. It's easy to look back and say we should have traded Kevin Asselin and a D that year to prepare for the future Val D'Or series but the Eagles went for it. Despite that, the Eagles came, Oh so close, in that Val D'Or series but some fans might also say I wish we hadn't traded Barberio and Brannon who we could have certainly used the last 2 years. Sometimes, it's very difficult to make the "Buy or Sell" decision but this year it just doesn't seem to have been a very difficult decision at all. Even a 1st round win will not be worth the ultimate price! You got to spend money to make money as well and have no regrets giving up a Barberio or Brannon but that could have been avoided if Asselin was moved to let's say Moncton and piece of that deal for Bourdon could have been Barbeiro as well so the impact is not as significant. If don't think the shareholders have given Mario the green light. I pretty much and 100% sure they didn't give it to him. If they did and he is doing what he is doing now he is baked. Mario was given the Green Light !
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Post by reality on Dec 28, 2009 17:31:54 GMT -4
hal, I'll repeat what I said before. If the shareholders did give Mario the green light, they have no business complaining about the outcome and dwindling attendance the next 2-3 years and Mario should be safe in his positions to continue this "Master Plan".
murph, we gave up Rd1, 2011 which could end up being the 1st overall pick which is a pretty nice rebuilding tool. I also don't believe the Eagles and Mario can change course now because we would have given away those 2 picks plus LeSieur who may still develop into a pretty solid player.
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Post by Clubber Lang on Dec 28, 2009 17:35:05 GMT -4
You got to spend money to make money as well and have no regrets giving up a Barberio or Brannon but that could have been avoided if Asselin was moved to let's say Moncton and piece of that deal for Bourdon could have been Barbeiro as well so the impact is not as significant. If don't think the shareholders have given Mario the green light. I pretty much and 100% sure they didn't give it to him. If they did and he is doing what he is doing now he is baked. Mario was given the Green Light ! That is great not only do we have a GM on glue but we also have the shareholders sniffing it as well. It wouldn't shock me at all if we win two rounds but it wouldn't shock me either if we get ousted in the first one either. Too much risk and too much at stake to consider this situation.
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Post by hal on Dec 28, 2009 17:48:49 GMT -4
hal, I'll repeat what I said before. If the shareholders did give Mario the green light, they have no business complaining about the outcome and dwindling attendance the next 2-3 years and Mario should be safe in his positions to continue this "Master Plan". murph, we gave up Rd1, 2011 which could end up being the 1st overall pick which is a pretty nice rebuilding tool. I also don't believe the Eagles and Mario can change course now because we would have given away those 2 picks plus LeSieur who may still develop into a pretty solid player. They are Businessmen ! If we go out in Round 1 .............do you really think they will care about what was said around a Table in December ? Remember they are not the Hockey People / On Ice decision makers..............that's where Super Mario comes in .
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Post by reality on Dec 28, 2009 18:39:19 GMT -4
hal, it's because they are businessmen that they will look back at this decision.
I may be wrong but I think the CB fans have become used to pretty good hockey the previous 5 years and may not respond well to the play of a really weak Atlantic Division team for the next 2-3 years. If attendance drops those same businessmen will be greatly concerned.
I also honestly believe those same shareholders were strongly divided about buying or selling but agreed to let Mario make the final decision.
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Post by EagleFan2009 on Dec 28, 2009 18:52:52 GMT -4
I believe he was givin the green light with hal. I certainly do not think this team is in the same league as moncton or saint john but this is a BIG team that can stick with any team with the right moves.
That does have zero to do with the future, but face it, Adam is staying here this year. They would not bring in Legault if they planned on trading adam. Why give up a 1st and leseuir if you plan on trading adam AT all. So you might as well stop talking about selling the team because at this point there is zero chance of it IMO.
We have to start looking at the moves that will be made and what kids can be brought in for Roy at the draft if he is not involved in a deal before the trade deadline.
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Post by mrgordon on Dec 28, 2009 19:17:14 GMT -4
While it's hard to stomach the direction our club is obviously moving towards, it's also hard to not feel for the guys on the team at a time like this.
I can't recall a time in which this small fragment of Eagles fans has been so unanimously at odds with the club's direction. The past two seasons seemingly should have taught the lesson that you either go big or go home in the trade period and that the 'half-in' strategy (which might still net you a couple rounds of playoff profit), is a light-years to 1 strategy for actually winning a championship.
All we're left with now, being that it really is so obvious that yet again we're selling even when our bankable assets continue to shrink (BECAUSE OF THE PAST TWO SEASONS), is a pretty good team that will probably strike out when trying to land a Jacob Lagace who might just make enough of a difference to at least be considered 50/50 with Moncton or St. John.
Alex Wall, Trudeau etc would be nice additions but it's somebody like Jacob Lagace we need and I'm not sure we can make that deal. Getting those other guys would be another 'half-in' IMO.
It seems to me that the $$$ behind everything else is the only thing that matters right now and that round two is good enough to fill some bellies. And laughingly enough they could still not even get past round 1!
In the past two seasons for various reasons I wasn't completely pro-sell, and I think I was wrong in hindsight. It's painfully obvious now actually. But it's just asinine that when we can still secure a future that we're not!
A lot of people that frequent this page will indeed spread a wave of negativity towards this club's chances and it will hover about the arena like a bad stench, and not that it's not justified either. This happens in Capitalism all the time; brass people assume their buyers are idiots and sell shitty business. It's too bad it's not a time to be simply proud of our Eagles on the ice, but how can you when they're playing for a dump? Hard not to feel bad for the kids indeed....
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Post by Murph on Dec 28, 2009 19:21:52 GMT -4
While it's hard to stomach the direction our club is obviously moving towards, it's also hard to not feel for the guys on the team at a time like this. I can't recall a time in which this small fragment of Eagles fans has been so unanimously at odds with the club's direction. The past two seasons seemingly should have taught the lesson that you either go big or go home in the trade period and that the 'half-in' strategy (which might still net you a couple rounds of playoff profit), is a light-years to 1 strategy for actually winning a championship. All we're left with now, being that it really is so obvious that yet again we're selling even when our bankable assets continue to shrink (BECAUSE OF THE PAST TWO SEASONS), is a pretty good team that will probably strike out when trying to land a Jacob Lagace who might just make enough of a difference to at least be considered 50/50 with Moncton or St. John. Alex Wall, Trudeau etc would be nice additions but it's somebody like Jacob Lagace we need and I'm not sure we can make that deal. Getting those other guys would be another 'half-in' IMO. It seems to me that the $$$ behind everything else is the only thing that matters right now and that round two is good enough to fill some bellies. And laughingly enough they could still not even get past round 1! In the past two seasons for various reasons I wasn't completely pro-sell, and I think I was wrong in hindsight. It's painfully obvious now actually. But it's just asinine that when we can still secure a future that we're not! A lot of people that frequent this page will indeed spread a wave of negativity towards this club's chances and it will hover about the arena like a bad stench, and not that it's not justified either. This happens in Capitalism all the time; brass people assume their buyers are idiots and sell shitty business. It's too bad it's not a time to be simply proud of our Eagles on the ice, but how can you when they're playing for a dump? Hard not to feel bad for the kids indeed.... IMO, you need two players like Legace..... not one.
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Post by mrgordon on Dec 28, 2009 19:24:04 GMT -4
While it's hard to stomach the direction our club is obviously moving towards, it's also hard to not feel for the guys on the team at a time like this. I can't recall a time in which this small fragment of Eagles fans has been so unanimously at odds with the club's direction. The past two seasons seemingly should have taught the lesson that you either go big or go home in the trade period and that the 'half-in' strategy (which might still net you a couple rounds of playoff profit), is a light-years to 1 strategy for actually winning a championship. All we're left with now, being that it really is so obvious that yet again we're selling even when our bankable assets continue to shrink (BECAUSE OF THE PAST TWO SEASONS), is a pretty good team that will probably strike out when trying to land a Jacob Lagace who might just make enough of a difference to at least be considered 50/50 with Moncton or St. John. Alex Wall, Trudeau etc would be nice additions but it's somebody like Jacob Lagace we need and I'm not sure we can make that deal. Getting those other guys would be another 'half-in' IMO. It seems to me that the $$$ behind everything else is the only thing that matters right now and that round two is good enough to fill some bellies. And laughingly enough they could still not even get past round 1! In the past two seasons for various reasons I wasn't completely pro-sell, and I think I was wrong in hindsight. It's painfully obvious now actually. But it's just asinine that when we can still secure a future that we're not! A lot of people that frequent this page will indeed spread a wave of negativity towards this club's chances and it will hover about the arena like a bad stench, and not that it's not justified either. This happens in Capitalism all the time; brass people assume their buyers are idiots and sell shitty business. It's too bad it's not a time to be simply proud of our Eagles on the ice, but how can you when they're playing for a dump? Hard not to feel bad for the kids indeed.... IMO, you need two players like Legace..... not one. yeah, you could be right and most likely are. But hey it just further validates the obvious eh!
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