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Post by statsman18 on Oct 8, 2014 15:32:00 GMT -4
I'm not against winning CB trying to win right now. I'm against pissing away a loaded cupboard for rentals for this year. Fucale wouldn't be back next year. Hardie is an overage on a team that has 4 overagers. Murphy is a 1 year older version of Leveille/MacIntyre/Deschamps. The suggestion of giving away Lalonde/Bell, Dubois, O'Leary, AND picks for rentals like this just doesn't make sense to me. Unless someone suggests a Barbario/Bourdon type of trade that brings in someone worth throwing away futures for, I probably won't buy it. Then if CB blows their load on rentals this year, then repeats next year, there will be another 2 seasons of bottom feeding in which people will be calling for Dumonts head. O'Leary is never going to play with us anyway, never even visited the facilities from what I've seen. Dubois is likely untouchable. The most I could see is one of Bell/Lalonde being gone at draft if we're picking up the absolute best available player at the deadline, and it doesn't even have to be one of them, we have L'Italien, Corbeil, Beaudin who can be added too any trade instead of Bell/Lalonde. I think a realistic trade which would land us a top 19 year old defenseman this year would be something like: (Chi/Drummondvile 1st, 2016 1st or 2nd, one of Corbeil/Beaudin/L'Italien and maybe a random 3rd or 4th in there) That trade would still leave us with 2 1sts this year (if we send O'Leary back to the draft, if not he can included in the trade instead of one of the 1sts) , 2 3rds this year, etc. Even with those trades, we still have more picks then the average team.. Pipe dreams. You won't get what you want with out pay for it. Your looking to give B assets for A players. And Dubois is not untouchable. No one is untouchable. In fact he's the first player to be asked about in any trade.
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Post by eaglefan62 on Oct 8, 2014 15:32:30 GMT -4
Interesting topic with lots of view points. General consensus seems to be that we keep Darcy and acquire some assets at Christmas to take a run this year and next. I don't have any issue with that, I'm sure Dumont has a plan of where he would like to go with this. Scenario: Rimouski sees Darcy as the player that would put them over the top and they offer a boatload for him, interesting decision. Comments please.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Oct 8, 2014 15:33:51 GMT -4
I'm not against winning CB trying to win right now. I'm against pissing away a loaded cupboard for rentals for this year. Fucale wouldn't be back next year. Hardie is an overage on a team that has 4 overagers. Murphy is a 1 year older version of Leveille/MacIntyre/Deschamps. The suggestion of giving away Lalonde/Bell, Dubois, O'Leary, AND picks for rentals like this just doesn't make sense to me. Unless someone suggests a Barbario/Bourdon type of trade that brings in someone worth throwing away futures for, I probably won't buy it. Then if CB blows their load on rentals this year, then repeats next year, there will be another 2 seasons of bottom feeding in which people will be calling for Dumonts head. O'Leary is never going to play with us anyway, never even visited the facilities from what I've seen. Dubois is likely untouchable. The most I could see is one of Bell/Lalonde being gone at draft if we're picking up the absolute best available player at the deadline, and it doesn't even have to be one of them, we have L'Italien, Corbeil, Beaudin who can be added too any trade instead of Bell/Lalonde. I think a realistic trade which would land us a top 19 year old defenseman this year would be something like: (Chi/Drummondvile 1st, 2016 1st or 2nd, one of Corbeil/Beaudin/L'Italien and maybe a random 3rd or 4th in there) That trade would still leave us with 2 1sts this year (if we send O'Leary back to the draft, if not he can included in the trade instead of one of the 1sts) , 2 3rds this year, etc. Even with those trades, we still have more picks then the average team.. Exactly. It gets to the point where you can have too much youth/picks in the system as you can't develop them all and give them a shot at ice time. It's great to list it all on paper but realize when you do so that some of that value has to be turned into veteran talent or else it's all a waste. You can't plan to win in 2015,2016, and 2018, 2019 it just doesn't work that way. Right now it's obvious we have the talent to content in 2015 and 2016 so of course the reinforcement for those teams has to come from the 2018 and 2019 teams. You only have 2 real options here now or later. So as long as you believe it's easy to find another 2ppg Euro and a 1ppg Euro along with a MacIntyre, Deschamps, Pelletier, Bishop, Darcy, Simard, and Farrell then you should trade all of them and brag about your draft picks for the next 2 seasons in a half empty rink. In reality though the time to strike is right now when you have the players that you would still need to win tomorrow anyway.
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Post by emerz on Oct 8, 2014 15:35:25 GMT -4
O'Leary is never going to play with us anyway, never even visited the facilities from what I've seen. Dubois is likely untouchable. The most I could see is one of Bell/Lalonde being gone at draft if we're picking up the absolute best available player at the deadline, and it doesn't even have to be one of them, we have L'Italien, Corbeil, Beaudin who can be added too any trade instead of Bell/Lalonde. I think a realistic trade which would land us a top 19 year old defenseman this year would be something like: (Chi/Drummondvile 1st, 2016 1st or 2nd, one of Corbeil/Beaudin/L'Italien and maybe a random 3rd or 4th in there) That trade would still leave us with 2 1sts this year (if we send O'Leary back to the draft, if not he can included in the trade instead of one of the 1sts) , 2 3rds this year, etc. Even with those trades, we still have more picks then the average team.. Pipe dreams. You won't get what you want with out pay for it. Your looking to give B assets for A players. And Dubois is not untouchable. No one is untouchable. In fact he's the first player to be asked about in any trade. Those are all 2nd round picks this year, not awful B assets. You might end up being right but I personally doubt Dubois is moved, I think the most likely "top asset" so to speak that would be moved would be Bell at the draft.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Oct 8, 2014 15:35:42 GMT -4
Interesting topic with lots of view points. General consensus seems to be that we keep Darcy and acquire some assets at Christmas to take a run this year and next. I don't have any issue with that, I'm sure Dumont has a plan of where he would like to go with this. Scenario: Rimouski sees Darcy as the player that would put them over the top and they offer a boatload for him, interesting decision. Comments please. We offer the boatload for Rimouski's players. Dubois, Corbeil, 3 2015 1sts for Morin and Gauthier. That stuff works both ways. Only we can trump every team in the country for trade assets. Not sure why not going for it is even a discussion topic after how shitty these past few years have been. How can you not see that the pain was all for right now?
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Post by jamesnorris on Oct 8, 2014 15:38:24 GMT -4
You can't avoid a season or 2 of bottom feeding after winning. Stopped reading right here. Yes you can, if you have proper asset management. It's something Dumont has done extremely well so I don't see why he'd go all-in just for the sake of going all-in. and to the comment of "nobody said..." I directed it at statsman but you keep responding as if I even quoted you
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Post by statsman18 on Oct 8, 2014 15:55:31 GMT -4
Pipe dreams. You won't get what you want with out pay for it. Your looking to give B assets for A players. And Dubois is not untouchable. No one is untouchable. In fact he's the first player to be asked about in any trade. Those are all 2nd round picks this year, not awful B assets. You might end up being right but I personally doubt Dubois is moved, I think the most likely "top asset" so to speak that would be moved would be Bell at the draft. You guys don't need to make future deals with what you have. You can make moves by moving 2014 drafted players and 2015 draft picks. That way you keep Bell and Lalonde for the year everyone says is your year. Dubois before yesterday might have been "untouchable" but getting Darcy back changes everything. You guys went from maybes to as close to a sure thing as you can over night.
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Post by looneytunes on Oct 8, 2014 15:56:54 GMT -4
I brought that deal up just to mess around a few weeks ago. Those two players would fit well in a run but the cost will be way too much unless nobody is willing to overpay. Besides , I doubt either team will be willing to help each other out that much being in the same division. Someone forgets the boomerang trade. You guys need to realize something here. You guys just got a player who is a top 5 scorer in the league for free. Your in a very weak division. You have a very strong team already. Knowing all that plus it's a Q Mem Cup year you make trades like that. The cost isn't going to be as bad as you would think. You have 2 1st rounders this year so it would be those plus Dubois and O'Leary. That could really get it done. Maybe another player like Corbeil too. But That for a ring is worth it. Plus if your giving up Brassard we can throw in Hardie and you that would put your team over the top for sure. I remember the boomarang trade. That was a different time with different faces. If I recall the boomerang was also pulled off because both GM's were getting frustrated at a lack of progress they were making in swinging deals around the league. I know what you are saying though. CB will be tough to beat based on paper.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Oct 8, 2014 16:08:21 GMT -4
You can't avoid a season or 2 of bottom feeding after winning. Stopped reading right here. Yes you can, if you have proper asset management. It's something Dumont has done extremely well so I don't see why he'd go all-in just for the sake of going all-in. and to the comment of "nobody said..." I directed it at statsman but you keep responding as if I even quoted you Oh you can do it, you just don't have a championship to show for those seasons more then likely. Look at Halifax and Saint John. Are you saying you know something they don't about building championship teams? Why is Val D'Or not doing great this year? Eventually you have to rebuild. Whether you have a 1 or 3 year window, the end result of the window is a down year. You can ignore my comments while wanting some dream scenario of 5 straight contending years but it's just not logical or rational when your entire core right now is essentially 18yrs old or older. What year do you think is this teams 'go for it' year exactly? Who are your 20's that year? You seem to have it all wrong with the comment of 'just for the sake of going all in'. You seem blind to the gift presented to us. It's a Mem Cup year and we just may now be the best team on paper yet you're scared to buy with a pile of assets available that a buyer absolutely never has. Everything Dumont did was for this moment and this opportunity, I really doubt he lets is pass without bringing in reinforcements.
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Post by eaglefan62 on Oct 8, 2014 16:30:20 GMT -4
ALLRIGHT. Now that we have ruffled a few feathers and raised a few eyebrows, lets keep Darcy and go all in. We just have a gift dropped in our laps so lets spend a few assets and go for it for the next two years. Interesting discussion though.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Oct 8, 2014 16:32:49 GMT -4
ALLRIGHT. Now that we have ruffled a few feathers and raised a few eyebrows, lets keep Darcy and go all in. We just have a gift dropped in our laps so lets spend a few assets and go for it for the next two years. Interesting discussion though. It does make the most sense when there's assets there to begin a rebuild with. In my opinion you can get what we need and choose to A) Keep the 16's/17's on the roster and move the picks/prospects or B) move the 16's/17's on the roster and keep the picks/prospects. We should be able to have the best of both worlds. The only thing that makes no sense is again trading down and hoping for next year as the only legit shot in the 4-5 year span starting right now. I feel 2 shots at winning is worth it. We've never had a situation like it before.
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Post by jamesnorris on Oct 8, 2014 16:34:07 GMT -4
I'm blind because I don't look at the scenario the exact same as you?
We don't even know where CB will be at Christmas. They could have a 6 player collision during a practice that results in 6 players breaking their legs and requiring surgery and end up in 12th place in December.
They could be in first place by 15 points with Brassard leading the league in every goalie category.
I'm not "afraid" of a big trade because I said the ones that have been proposed by statsman are stupid. I just don't think people should be jumping on a crazy train and suggesting CB should throw every single asset in the cupboard at mediocre rentals just because Darcy was sent down.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Oct 8, 2014 16:41:26 GMT -4
I'm blind because I don't look at the scenario the exact same as you? We don't even know where CB will be at Christmas. They could have a 6 player collision during a practice that results in 6 players breaking their legs and requiring surgery and end up in 12th place in December. They could be in first place by 15 points with Brassard leading the league in every goalie category. I'm not "afraid" of a big trade because I said the ones that have been proposed by statsman are stupid. I just don't think people should be jumping on a crazy train and suggesting CB should throw every single asset in the cupboard at mediocre rentals just because Darcy was sent down. You're not blind for that, it's your extremes of everyone breaking legs and everyone throwing the assets away for nothing that you need to reign in a bit. Nobody is saying throw every asset away. We are talking about buying vs not buying. It's not complicated, unless you really want it to be. But like it or not Darcy being sent down changes the discussion for us from a "should we buy" to "who are we buying". There's a small window to win with players like he and Svechnikov on the same roster.
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Post by looneytunes on Oct 8, 2014 16:49:47 GMT -4
Why wait? What if we're like Quebec this year and Svechnikov makes the NHL like Duclair? Where are you finding a Darcy replacement without paying through the nose? Personally I think we can do both. Just don't see why you're so against winning now when everything is going our way player wise. I agree. The situation right now in CB reminds me of the 2010 Cats. The unexpected arrival of Darcy is like when Riopel appeared in Moncton by surprise. You have a very solid base and tons of assets, I don't see why not go for it. Things can happen so fast in junior hockey, like you say, Svechnikov could be gone next year. You have to strike while the iron is hot. I like this a lot. CB is more like Moncton's 2010 team and not CB's. Some are likely skeptical because of the 2010 fiasco. This team is much deeper on offence than the 2010 team. When the D shapes up this team will be scary. Plus , the playoff format ensures that a contender will probably not get knocked out right away. Like what CB dealt with when they would have had to play either a loaded Moncton or SJ that year. As long as there are no Jacob Lagace's coming CB's way at the trade deadline .
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Post by WildcatMapleLeafs on Oct 8, 2014 17:03:09 GMT -4
A player I would target if I were Cape Breton is Tommy Veilleux from Victoriville. He's a great two-way forward that finishes his checks and can chip in offensively as well. He crashes , bangs and is an awesome penalty killer. He's a 19 year old that won't cost a ton but would have a huge impact from what I saw watching the Eagles. With the top six set , he'd be atop my list of players to target. Just my two cents.
And if Brassard is still struggling in net , Whitney could be packaged in. He's amongst the league's best tenders.
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