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Post by Citris on Oct 8, 2014 11:42:15 GMT -4
Summer price, Xmas price. Depends on demand and picks are worth less at Xmas. I just don't think you get 2 1sts + for Murphy. He's a good not great D, who is prone to some really boneheaded moves in his own end and doesn't have the elite offensive game to overshadow that. Agree. I think Murphy is worth maybe a first + something near the value of a second or late first + Nosella (give him a place to play/Halifax actually needs the bodies) or something We only paid so much for him because we got him at 17. we picked him up when there was 3 1/2 years of game left in him, not 1 1/2
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Post by statsman18 on Oct 8, 2014 11:45:00 GMT -4
All I'm saying is CB is now in a position where they can make a run this year to add to next year. The crazy think is you guy don't have to do it the way it's been done recently. CB has good 16yos and a good amount of top picks. With this you can basically get what you need with out giving up anyone that will be core next year. Here's what I'm saying you can do. Murphy, Fucale, and Hardie from Hal 1st 2015, 1st 2015, O'Leary , Dubois , Brassard and maybe Corbeil and Nosella so he has somewhere to play. (Corbeil is added for Hardie) If you don't like that then something like this is possible too. Murphy and Hardie from Hal 1st 2015, O'Leary, Brassard and one of either 1st 2015 or Dubois from CB and throw in Nosella so he can still play Both times I threw in Hardie because I really think that's where you guys can use a good 20. Someone who's a leader to help get your fairly young D crop going. Hardie is one of the best shut down guy in the league and bring so much leadership. I think it's a prefect fit. With this trade you can still go out and get a top Goalie somewhere else. If though you go get a different goalie such as say a Cadorette your looking at giving up a Bell or Lalonde as well. But in this case you have Cadorette and Murphy as 20s the next year. Some people don't get you have to give to get. Both Murphy and Cadorette don't have to be traded so they need to be bought. By that I mean the offer has to be to good to not pull the trigger. Trading multi players is not a good deal for the Moose. You get more selling as individuals. Murphy is worth 2 1st and a good prospect. O'Leary really isn't that good prospect as we have seen how not reporting works out for the Moose. Not better than any other team. Look at the prices last year. What good is Brassard to the Moose? O'Leary is worth a 1st to CB but if he goes back into the draft he is going lower than that. If Fucale regains form before Xmas his value is goes up, if not he is not worth it for a contender. First O'Leary had a deal to come to Halifax because it's his home town and all. CB took a chance on him and it didn't overly payoff. The trades that I threw out there are trades that really both teams would be happy with. If they were traded by them selves the return wouldn't be much better then that. As for Brassard part it would fit better for the moose. They would be able to play Resop more and Brassard would be any ok guy to have. They can rotate more then what will play out if we keep Fucale. Plus if the take Hardie we might as well take there extra 20. We don't really have any other goalie anyway.
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Post by eaglefan62 on Oct 8, 2014 11:52:42 GMT -4
If O'leary had a deal in place to report to Halifax, why not a Murphy for O'Leary trade at Christmas.Id O'Leary goes back into the draft, someone else may grab him again before Halifax gets to pick, the trade route ensures Halifax gets him, if they want him badly.
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Post by mooseinfo on Oct 8, 2014 11:59:24 GMT -4
Trading multi players is not a good deal for the Moose. You get more selling as individuals. Murphy is worth 2 1st and a good prospect. O'Leary really isn't that good prospect as we have seen how not reporting works out for the Moose. Not better than any other team. Look at the prices last year. What good is Brassard to the Moose? O'Leary is worth a 1st to CB but if he goes back into the draft he is going lower than that. If Fucale regains form before Xmas his value is goes up, if not he is not worth it for a contender. First O'Leary had a deal to come to Halifax because it's his home town and all. CB took a chance on him and it didn't overly payoff. The trades that I threw out there are trades that really both teams would be happy with. If they were traded by them selves the return wouldn't be much better then that. As for Brassard part it would fit better for the moose. They would be able to play Resop more and Brassard would be any ok guy to have. They can rotate more then what will play out if we keep Fucale. Plus if the take Hardie we might as well take there extra 20. We don't really have any other goalie anyway. Deal(rumor) or not O Leary is a risk and he can be had for a later pick next year. Look at this year for that example and how the deal to report goes!!!!!!!!!!! CB IF they move will have the assets to get what they need and there are plenty of teams to deal with. Being a Memorial Cup year and what is shaping up to be quite a few teams in it vice the year the Moose won it all prices will be higher. Question is what would it cost to get a Darcy next year, CB has him now.
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Post by statsman18 on Oct 8, 2014 12:22:14 GMT -4
First O'Leary had a deal to come to Halifax because it's his home town and all. CB took a chance on him and it didn't overly payoff. The trades that I threw out there are trades that really both teams would be happy with. If they were traded by them selves the return wouldn't be much better then that. As for Brassard part it would fit better for the moose. They would be able to play Resop more and Brassard would be any ok guy to have. They can rotate more then what will play out if we keep Fucale. Plus if the take Hardie we might as well take there extra 20. We don't really have any other goalie anyway. Deal(rumor) or not O Leary is a risk and he can be had for a later pick next year. Look at this year for that example and how the deal to report goes!!!!!!!!!!! CB IF they move will have the assets to get what they need and there are plenty of teams to deal with. Being a Memorial Cup year and what is shaping up to be quite a few teams in it vice the year the Moose won it all prices will be higher. Question is what would it cost to get a Darcy next year, CB has him now. Next year they will need a Farrell to. They sit better now with those 2 top 20s. But everything I said was giving up 2015 picks they would still have 2016 picks to play with. Their cupboards are so full it's sad. They also have Corbeil, L'Ilatine from this draft as assets. Dumont has done a great job on putting CB in this position. As for this year and the deal to report went Dachyshyn did report. He was at camp. He didn't have a deal to be on the team so he kept his options open.
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Post by jamesnorris on Oct 8, 2014 12:47:56 GMT -4
Ye, next year you lose Farrell & Darcy but you get another year of experience/development in Svechnikov, Lazarev, Bishop, Pelletier, Dubois, Leveille, Bell, Lalonde, Deschamps, MacIntyre.
Nothing should change. Next year should still be the go-for-it year and this year you try to make a run & get a bunch of experience for all those returnees.
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Post by statsman18 on Oct 8, 2014 13:40:41 GMT -4
Ye, next year you lose Farrell & Darcy but you get another year of experience/development in Svechnikov, Lazarev, Bishop, Pelletier, Dubois, Leveille, Bell, Lalonde, Deschamps, MacIntyre. Nothing should change. Next year should still be the go-for-it year and this year you try to make a run & get a bunch of experience for all those returnees. You do understand that you can win this year and next don't you? Losing both Farrell and Darcy is losing 60+ goals. That isn't easy to replace.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Oct 8, 2014 13:47:49 GMT -4
Ye, next year you lose Farrell & Darcy but you get another year of experience/development in Svechnikov, Lazarev, Bishop, Pelletier, Dubois, Leveille, Bell, Lalonde, Deschamps, MacIntyre. Nothing should change. Next year should still be the go-for-it year and this year you try to make a run & get a bunch of experience for all those returnees. Why wait? What if we're like Quebec this year and Svechnikov makes the NHL like Duclair? Where are you finding a Darcy replacement without paying through the nose? Personally I think we can do both. Just don't see why you're so against winning now when everything is going our way player wise.
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Post by catnut on Oct 8, 2014 14:00:31 GMT -4
Ye, next year you lose Farrell & Darcy but you get another year of experience/development in Svechnikov, Lazarev, Bishop, Pelletier, Dubois, Leveille, Bell, Lalonde, Deschamps, MacIntyre. Nothing should change. Next year should still be the go-for-it year and this year you try to make a run & get a bunch of experience for all those returnees. Why wait? What if we're like Quebec this year and Svechnikov makes the NHL like Duclair? Where are you finding a Darcy replacement without paying through the nose? Personally I think we can do both. Just don't see why you're so against winning now when everything is going our way player wise. I agree. The situation right now in CB reminds me of the 2010 Cats. The unexpected arrival of Darcy is like when Riopel appeared in Moncton by surprise. You have a very solid base and tons of assets, I don't see why not go for it. Things can happen so fast in junior hockey, like you say, Svechnikov could be gone next year. You have to strike while the iron is hot.
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Post by statsman18 on Oct 8, 2014 14:28:40 GMT -4
Ye, next year you lose Farrell & Darcy but you get another year of experience/development in Svechnikov, Lazarev, Bishop, Pelletier, Dubois, Leveille, Bell, Lalonde, Deschamps, MacIntyre. Nothing should change. Next year should still be the go-for-it year and this year you try to make a run & get a bunch of experience for all those returnees. Why wait? What if we're like Quebec this year and Svechnikov makes the NHL like Duclair? Where are you finding a Darcy replacement without paying through the nose? Personally I think we can do both. Just don't see why you're so against winning now when everything is going our way player wise. You also have to think next year SJ and PEI are going to be better and ready to make runs of there own. This division is yours for the taking. These opportunities don't come alone often.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Oct 8, 2014 14:33:32 GMT -4
Why wait? What if we're like Quebec this year and Svechnikov makes the NHL like Duclair? Where are you finding a Darcy replacement without paying through the nose? Personally I think we can do both. Just don't see why you're so against winning now when everything is going our way player wise. I agree. The situation right now in CB reminds me of the 2010 Cats. The unexpected arrival of Darcy is like when Riopel appeared in Moncton by surprise. You have a very solid base and tons of assets, I don't see why not go for it. Things can happen so fast in junior hockey, like you say, Svechnikov could be gone next year. You have to strike while the iron is hot. That's a good example. I'll wait to see if he has any decent rebuttal to offer as to why wait any longer. Acquiring more draft picks is not at all what this team needs. I just don't see what's gained by trading down for next year and putting all the eggs in that basket. How often does a 2 year window happen in this league? We have not seen in in 15 years. 2000-02 and 2005-07 was the closest we've seen but 01 and 06 both ended up 2nd round being put up by much deeper teams. This team can be a championship contender next year with championship experience. A very rare combo in junior hockey.
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Post by Judas In My Mind on Oct 8, 2014 14:44:36 GMT -4
Ye, next year you lose Farrell & Darcy but you get another year of experience/development in Svechnikov, Lazarev, Bishop, Pelletier, Dubois, Leveille, Bell, Lalonde, Deschamps, MacIntyre. Nothing should change. Next year should still be the go-for-it year and this year you try to make a run & get a bunch of experience for all those returnees. Why wait? What if we're like Quebec this year and Svechnikov makes the NHL like Duclair? Where are you finding a Darcy replacement without paying through the nose? Personally I think we can do both. Just don't see why you're so against winning now when everything is going our way player wise. I agree with the why wait. No point. You guys are set up right now as favorites to win the division, in my opinion. That gets you at worst the #3 seed in the playoffs which should be an easy road to at least the semi finals. You win that series and you could be going to the Memorial Cup (if Quebec is the other team in the QMJHL final with you) You guys have what? Like 4 1st round picks over the next 2 years? If you move 2 of those in a trade you could get your goalie, or help on D.(depending on who you went after could cost a bit more/less) You'd still have the other 2 picks which is what a team normally has (2 1st round picks in 2 years) so it would be like giving up nothing to improve this year's squad. (definitely wouldn't be considered mortgaging the future). Plus since Farrell and Darcy likely aren't going anywhere, if you acquired a goalie and a D for example, at least one of those is not going to be a 20 year old, so the potential is there that at least one of those players is back for you the following year, contributing to yet another strong CB team. Looking at your roster and picks I really can't see a downside to picking up a couple of pieces at some point this year and going for it. You'll have a shot this year, and should still have a shot next year. You should be the next multi-year strong Maritime team like SJ and Halifax were previous to this.
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Post by jamesnorris on Oct 8, 2014 15:00:28 GMT -4
What if we're like Quebec this year and Svechnikov makes the NHL like Duclair? Where are you finding a Darcy replacement without paying through the nose? Personally I think we can do both. Just don't see why you're so against winning now when everything is going our way player wise. I'm not against winning CB trying to win right now. I'm against pissing away a loaded cupboard for rentals for this year. Fucale wouldn't be back next year. Hardie is an overage on a team that has 4 overagers. Murphy is a 1 year older version of Leveille/MacIntyre/Deschamps. The suggestion of giving away Lalonde/Bell, Dubois, O'Leary, AND picks for rentals like this just doesn't make sense to me. Unless someone suggests a Barbario/Bourdon type of trade that brings in someone worth throwing away futures for, I probably won't buy it. Then if CB blows their load on rentals this year, then repeats next year, there will be another 2 seasons of bottom feeding in which people will be calling for Dumonts head.
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Post by emerz on Oct 8, 2014 15:20:48 GMT -4
What if we're like Quebec this year and Svechnikov makes the NHL like Duclair? Where are you finding a Darcy replacement without paying through the nose? Personally I think we can do both. Just don't see why you're so against winning now when everything is going our way player wise. I'm not against winning CB trying to win right now. I'm against pissing away a loaded cupboard for rentals for this year. Fucale wouldn't be back next year. Hardie is an overage on a team that has 4 overagers. Murphy is a 1 year older version of Leveille/MacIntyre/Deschamps. The suggestion of giving away Lalonde/Bell, Dubois, O'Leary, AND picks for rentals like this just doesn't make sense to me. Unless someone suggests a Barbario/Bourdon type of trade that brings in someone worth throwing away futures for, I probably won't buy it. Then if CB blows their load on rentals this year, then repeats next year, there will be another 2 seasons of bottom feeding in which people will be calling for Dumonts head. O'Leary is never going to play with us anyway, never even visited the facilities from what I've seen. Dubois is likely untouchable. The most I could see is one of Bell/Lalonde being gone at draft if we're picking up the absolute best available player at the deadline, and it doesn't even have to be one of them, we have L'Italien, Corbeil, Beaudin who can be added too any trade instead of Bell/Lalonde. I think a realistic trade which would land us a top 19 year old defenseman this year would be something like: (Chi/Drummondvile 1st, 2016 1st or 2nd, one of Corbeil/Beaudin/L'Italien and maybe a random 3rd or 4th in there) That trade would still leave us with 2 1sts this year (if we send O'Leary back to the draft, if not he can included in the trade instead of one of the 1sts) , 2 3rds this year, etc. Even with those trades, we still have more picks then the average team..
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Post by Jack Bauer on Oct 8, 2014 15:25:08 GMT -4
What if we're like Quebec this year and Svechnikov makes the NHL like Duclair? Where are you finding a Darcy replacement without paying through the nose? Personally I think we can do both. Just don't see why you're so against winning now when everything is going our way player wise. I'm not against winning CB trying to win right now. I'm against pissing away a loaded cupboard for rentals for this year. Fucale wouldn't be back next year. Hardie is an overage on a team that has 4 overagers. Murphy is a 1 year older version of Leveille/MacIntyre/Deschamps. The suggestion of giving away Lalonde/Bell, Dubois, O'Leary, AND picks for rentals like this just doesn't make sense to me. Unless someone suggests a Barbario/Bourdon type of trade that brings in someone worth throwing away futures for, I probably won't buy it. Then if CB blows their load on rentals this year, then repeats next year, there will be another 2 seasons of bottom feeding in which people will be calling for Dumonts head. That's a Moose fan trying to get the most value possible for their vets. Nobody here has suggested to do the deal but those kinds of assets have to be at least in play in order to discuss acquiring vets. You can't avoid a season or 2 of bottom feeding after winning. If you get 2 years of a top 3 team in exchange for that it's all you can ask for as a fan, either way after next year everyone leaves for no return anyway. A loaded cupboard is only good if you use it to contend on the ice, otherwise it's nothing but hope for tomorrow when the players on the ice today are 3 or 4 pieces away from being a juggernaut. Some rentals have to come from some assets, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can look at a Dubois or a Bell or a 2015 1st and declare it off limits because you still have a Lalonde and 2 other 2015 1sts and O'Leary...but you have to sacrifice some of that for todays on ice product when it's this talented. You're doing the fans and the team a disservice by only worrying about losing in 3 years time. There's no Luc Bourdon's out there this year so that argument is moot. Do you not acquire anyone because there's no NHL defencemen available? I give up 2-3 assets for a Fucale. 1 1st, 1 16yr old not named Dubois and another pick like a 2nd or 3rd. If I can pay less and get someone who returns next year I look at that as well but at the end of the day I take the best player/offer value I can find and worry about the rental aspect later. There should be more calls for Dumont's head if he trades Darcy right now then if he trades 3 or 4 assets for 2 19's who may not return but fill key roles like top 2 D or a #1 goalie.
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