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Post by Jack Bauer on Oct 15, 2014 23:34:42 GMT -4
I always thought the argument was who the fuck is showing Biebers DUI on the news over real issues. Not that we need more TMZ coverage from Steve Murphy. A reason the players love the small markets is for the privacy....not being the big fish in a small pond. Thats a reason Rimouski is so popular as they treat the players like gold but let them be kids. Haha yeah well that's a whole different can or worms and I agree with you on the real issues and TMZ. But that's the thing, Palov is basically dedicated to the Mooseheads, which is why there is disappointment with the lack of, or at least lengthy delay in reporting this story. If the Lakers beat reporter doesn't report on Kobe's DUI and their crime reporter publishes the story a week later, the audience this reporter is trying to captivate all of a sudden lose faith in his investigative reporting abilities and source their news elsewhere. It gets messy when media gets in bed with their advertisers because then the content is spun in favour of the money. The truth takes a back seat and that's the entire purpose of reporting in the first place. Players love small markets? There are exceptions but I wholeheartedly disagree. Players want to play for the big market teams in the big rinks in front of big crowds where they get more exposure to scouts and receive more fan-fare and attention, for the most part. 2 things: I agree to disagree on the players in small or big markets. We can agree that every case is unique. Lots of kids and even professionals want the smaller markets with no exposure if it means a quieter time off the ice. And while I agree on the Kobe thing the problem is comparing this to Kobe. Kobe makes $26 mil a year. A Halifax Moosehead defenceman is a much different case study. Halifax is not Los Angeles or Toronto. Palov is not covering the Habs or Yankees. It's being handled no differently by the team and media then you'd want it handled for your own kids in the exact same situation.
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Post by guru on Oct 15, 2014 23:42:14 GMT -4
Dude you are totally not getting it. I'm not sure if you used to post under a different name or if you are someone that came around the past few years, I guess it doesn't matter at the end of the day since what is important is we are having a good discussion. Like Rogan pointed out, it would be great to have some more investigative journalism into the CHLPA. In the NCAA, you always here of scandals, player X receiving money, etc. There is no reason why this same kind of thing can't be uncovered in the CHL. Is it important stuff when it comes to looking at the standings as of today? Not really, but I'd love to see more accountability in the CHL but when it comes to hockey. Uncovering that kind of stuff for whatever reason interests me. The CHL and their teams and players have had it far too easy for too long, time for someone to unearth shit! But that is just too ambitious, I just want the Herald to be independent of the Mooseheads, seems like they are almost in bed together. I think you're too used to sensationalized american media. The NCAA is a scandal factory because of a few factors. A) The rules are super strict B) The players in the sports are the dangerous combinations of Young and therefore Stupid and C) the money involved is not even close to junior hockey. Did you ever think a reason for few scandals in junior hockey is that there are not many to be had due to the liberal rules in regards to players and the leagues stance of changing rules as they see fit which both contradict everything the NCAA stands for? Any scandal I can recall was few and far between and usually minor in comparison to what we see south of the border. The CHLPA thing is an interesting topic but I think the mainstream media never bought into what they were selling and in return only reported on the facts as they knew there would be little support behind it due to everything involved. If they gained any momentum, perhaps that's when people start budgeting for a closer look at what they're up to but with so much keeping reporters busy why is anyone wasting time on something that at the end of the day has little chance at success? Perhaps I am missing out on all the current scandals the newspaper isn't telling me. What the hell are these players up to these days that's so interesting to you? You are right, I'm used to the American media, they just seem to want to dig more deeply into things. The Canadian media meanwhile slobber all over the hockey players. For the record, I don't like the ESPN approach to make scandals their entire talking point, that shit drives me crazy. But I think we do need deeper investigations into the QMJHL or Mooseheads. For example, howcome nobody reported on the rumours of Duclair getting a lot of money to report to Quebec? I have no idea if it is true, just going by what people said on here. Was Drouin really concerned about not being "ready" for the Q or was it something else? Posters on here have written about past Moosehead players receiving lots of money or vehicles, where did the money come from? That kind of things has me curious. My understanding is teams aren't allowed to pay under the table (can't prove under the table payments though). In the US, they would look into these kinds of things. And as I stated before, the time gap on when the Herald decided to run with the Vuic story is concerning. As Rogan pointed out, he was out of the lineup and people wanted to know why, seems people at the Herald knew why but waited until other outlets reported first. Seems like Russell and the Herald made a joint statement after the Metro News first reported it. Our main access to Mooseheads and Q knowledge needs to go through checkpoints. It bothers me. At the end of the day, this is no big deal, it is just a junior hockey team, not politics, but still out of principle, I'm not fond of a controlled message. I can't shake it.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Oct 15, 2014 23:47:22 GMT -4
You are comparing gossip in junior hockey to real news in things such as politics. It is night and day in comparison. And a journalists job is to report on stories they believe their readers want to know. If Wily Palov believes that ethically he should leave a players DUI off of twitter and out of the paper until his papera crime report does his due diligence then with all due respect that is his career choice to make. That is not the kind of news coverage i want of my local sports tean. You're grasping at straws. Anybody interested in or following the Mooseheads wanted to know exactly why Vuic was a healthy scratch and if the rumours flying around the rink were true or not. Due diligence doesn't take 5 days or however long it took. You'd be a fool to think that Palov and Arsenault didn't know immediately from trusted sources. There still hasn't been an official release by the HRP naming Vuic as the driver. So the question is, why did it take so long? My guess is so the team could brace for impact and prepare their position. Which means they clearly influenced the media in my eyes. Anyway I don't really care to keep debating this issue. The media reports what the Mooseheads tell them to report. Because if not they'll pull advertising dollars and take away all their perks. So charge everyone big city money and make the league have a yearly revenue of 100 mil or so with a big TV deal and you can have your investigative reporting into the players DUI's. I guess I just don't see the economic return on having a reporter lose his ties to the team he reports on by jumping the gun and potentially getting facts wrong which could impact both sides negatively. What is the gain for Palov and the Herald of breaking it earlier with Palov's info vs waiting for their crime reporter?
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Post by mooseinfo on Oct 15, 2014 23:50:14 GMT -4
You are comparing gossip in junior hockey to real news in things such as politics. It is night and day in comparison. And a journalists job is to report on stories they believe their readers want to know. If Wily Palov believes that ethically he should leave a players DUI off of twitter and out of the paper until his papera crime report does his due diligence then with all due respect that is his career choice to make. That is not the kind of news coverage i want of my local sports tean. You're grasping at straws. Anybody interested in or following the Mooseheads wanted to know exactly why Vuic was a healthy scratch and if the rumours flying around the rink were true or not. Due diligence doesn't take 5 days or however long it took. You'd be a fool to think that Palov and Arsenault didn't know immediately from trusted sources. There still hasn't been an official release by the HRP naming Vuic as the driver. So the question is, why did it take so long? My guess is so the team could brace for impact and prepare their position. Which means they clearly influenced the media in my eyes. Anyway I don't really care to keep debating this issue. The media reports what the Mooseheads tell them to report. Because if not they'll pull advertising dollars and take away all their perks. LOL Media sensationalize the news not report the NEWS anymore. Thats why everyone is so hyped to fly after 1 plane goes down but drive everyday or the reason there are no free range kids anymore. What a boring topic which really is being hyped because of WHO is CAUGHT! Its certainly not sports. You may try hard but you will never take the title of DRAMA QUEEN from Guru. Now where is that article on something good like how Weegar is doing.
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Post by guru on Oct 15, 2014 23:55:58 GMT -4
You're grasping at straws. Anybody interested in or following the Mooseheads wanted to know exactly why Vuic was a healthy scratch and if the rumours flying around the rink were true or not. Due diligence doesn't take 5 days or however long it took. You'd be a fool to think that Palov and Arsenault didn't know immediately from trusted sources. There still hasn't been an official release by the HRP naming Vuic as the driver. So the question is, why did it take so long? My guess is so the team could brace for impact and prepare their position. Which means they clearly influenced the media in my eyes. Anyway I don't really care to keep debating this issue. The media reports what the Mooseheads tell them to report. Because if not they'll pull advertising dollars and take away all their perks. So charge everyone big city money and make the league have a yearly revenue of 100 mil or so with a big TV deal and you can have your investigative reporting into the players DUI's. I guess I just don't see the economic return on having a reporter lose his ties to the team he reports on by jumping the gun and potentially getting facts wrong which could impact both sides negatively. What is the gain for Palov and the Herald of breaking it earlier with Palov's info vs waiting for their crime reporter? I think the CHL is big business now and should be treated as such by the media. The Herald played a part in making the Mooseheads popular, the Herald needs the Mooseheads and the Mooseheads need the Herald. I hate to use a pro-football analogy since this is junior hockey, but I remember when Ed Werder as a beat reporter for the Cowboys used to ruffle feathers. Let Palov do the day to day menial hockey talk, and get someone else to dig deep, because the model today is no longer cutting it here.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Oct 16, 2014 0:01:10 GMT -4
I think you're too used to sensationalized american media. The NCAA is a scandal factory because of a few factors. A) The rules are super strict B) The players in the sports are the dangerous combinations of Young and therefore Stupid and C) the money involved is not even close to junior hockey. Did you ever think a reason for few scandals in junior hockey is that there are not many to be had due to the liberal rules in regards to players and the leagues stance of changing rules as they see fit which both contradict everything the NCAA stands for? Any scandal I can recall was few and far between and usually minor in comparison to what we see south of the border. The CHLPA thing is an interesting topic but I think the mainstream media never bought into what they were selling and in return only reported on the facts as they knew there would be little support behind it due to everything involved. If they gained any momentum, perhaps that's when people start budgeting for a closer look at what they're up to but with so much keeping reporters busy why is anyone wasting time on something that at the end of the day has little chance at success? Perhaps I am missing out on all the current scandals the newspaper isn't telling me. What the hell are these players up to these days that's so interesting to you? You are right, I'm used to the American media, they just seem to want to dig more deeply into things. The Canadian media meanwhile slobber all over the hockey players. For the record, I don't like the ESPN approach to make scandals their entire talking point, that shit drives me crazy. But I think we do need deeper investigations into the QMJHL or Mooseheads. For example, howcome nobody reported on the rumours of Duclair getting a lot of money to report to Quebec? I have no idea if it is true, just going by what people said on here. Was Drouin really concerned about not being "ready" for the Q or was it something else? Posters on here have written about past Moosehead players receiving lots of money or vehicles, where did the money come from? That kind of things has me curious. My understanding is teams aren't allowed to pay under the table (can't prove under the table payments though). In the US, they would look into these kinds of things. And as I stated before, the time gap on when the Herald decided to run with the Vuic story is concerning. As Rogan pointed out, he was out of the lineup and people wanted to know why, seems people at the Herald knew why but waited until other outlets reported first. Seems like Russell and the Herald made a joint statement after the Metro News first reported it. Our main access to Mooseheads and Q knowledge needs to go through checkpoints. It bothers me. At the end of the day, this is no big deal, it is just a junior hockey team, not politics, but still out of principle, I'm not fond of a controlled message. I can't shake it. Good questions but it again comes down to NCAA rules vs CHL. Reporting on an NCAA players potential side deal means more. For example: To an Alabama reporter or booster finding out Florida State's QB took 500K from their athletic department can mean their own team is in a better situation for success as that breaks NCAA rules and will ban the player and his entire teams success. In the CHL a Duclair's 'deal' isn't illegal. It's a private contract between the player and team. There is no Collective Bargaining Agreement in the QMJHL. The league sets some rules but leaves open loopholes that can be exploited while technically not being illegal. Because of all this and the face that the reporter covering the Mooseheads doesn't benefit much from the teams success other then rooting for the home team and the fans don't have the same financial investment as some of the NCAA folk and you can see why there are and should be 2 different standards of reporting. If checkpoints mean factual reporting that's beneficial to the team and the reporter. You or I don't know if Palov had enough to run the story when you claim he should have reported it, honestly. Or what protocol is at the Herald for such a case. Maybe those are the better questions to be asking.
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Post by guru on Oct 16, 2014 0:02:49 GMT -4
You're grasping at straws. Anybody interested in or following the Mooseheads wanted to know exactly why Vuic was a healthy scratch and if the rumours flying around the rink were true or not. Due diligence doesn't take 5 days or however long it took. You'd be a fool to think that Palov and Arsenault didn't know immediately from trusted sources. There still hasn't been an official release by the HRP naming Vuic as the driver. So the question is, why did it take so long? My guess is so the team could brace for impact and prepare their position. Which means they clearly influenced the media in my eyes. Anyway I don't really care to keep debating this issue. The media reports what the Mooseheads tell them to report. Because if not they'll pull advertising dollars and take away all their perks. LOL Media sensationalize the news not report the NEWS anymore. Thats why everyone is so hyped to fly after 1 plane goes down but drive everyday or the reason there are no free range kids anymore. What a boring topic which really is being hyped because of WHO is CAUGHT! Its certainly not sports. You may try hard but you will never take the title of DRAMA QUEEN from Guru. Now where is that article on something good like how Weegar is doing. Not sure how you link the media sensationalizing things compared to me not wanting the message being controlled? *shrugs*
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Post by Jack Bauer on Oct 16, 2014 0:13:26 GMT -4
So charge everyone big city money and make the league have a yearly revenue of 100 mil or so with a big TV deal and you can have your investigative reporting into the players DUI's. I guess I just don't see the economic return on having a reporter lose his ties to the team he reports on by jumping the gun and potentially getting facts wrong which could impact both sides negatively. What is the gain for Palov and the Herald of breaking it earlier with Palov's info vs waiting for their crime reporter? I think the CHL is big business now and should be treated as such by the media. The Herald played a part in making the Mooseheads popular, the Herald needs the Mooseheads and the Mooseheads need the Herald. I hate to use a pro-football analogy since this is junior hockey, but I remember when Ed Werder as a beat reporter for the Cowboys used to ruffle feathers. Let Palov do the day to day menial hockey talk, and get someone else to dig deep, because the model today is no longer cutting it here. Big business? There's probably 12 teams on budgets under $1.5 million. Average attendance is near 3000 I believe. I just disagree on the CHL being big business, especially for this argument with the NCAA scandals being what you want. People would also have to pay to read newspapers for them to double their staffing on a hockey team by hiring a reporter and giving him a job that will help to lessen the access Palov will have. Not many are doing that in 2014.
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Post by mooseinfo on Oct 16, 2014 8:52:42 GMT -4
LOL Media sensationalize the news not report the NEWS anymore. Thats why everyone is so hyped to fly after 1 plane goes down but drive everyday or the reason there are no free range kids anymore. What a boring topic which really is being hyped because of WHO is CAUGHT! Its certainly not sports. You may try hard but you will never take the title of DRAMA QUEEN from Guru. Now where is that article on something good like how Weegar is doing. Not sure how you link the media sensationalizing things compared to me not wanting the message being controlled? *shrugs* DRAMA QUEEN! Look it up.
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Post by L'il Boy on Oct 16, 2014 9:32:46 GMT -4
That has to be the worst analogy I've seen yet.
What if you're just a bad driver? Then, driving under the speed limit could be putting others in mortal danger.
Impairment is determined by many things. How long you've been drinking, what you've had to drink, weight, fatigue, medications, emotional state, how much....or if....you've eaten, etc.
Most people begin to feel the effects of alcohol when their blood alcohol content is somewhere between 0.03% and 0.059%. At this point, the person feels mild euphoria, relaxation, and talkativeness. He or she suffers from impaired alertness, judgment, coordination, and concentration, as well.
In Ontario, if your BAC is 0.05% - 0.08%, for a first offence, you'll get a three day roadside suspension. In BC, you can get a 12 hour licence suspension if your BAC is over 0.03%. Most provinces give 24 hour suspensions for BAC of 0.05%-0.08%.
I'm glad that they don't subscribe to your theory that "driving a vehicle at 0.05 or 0.07 you are affected by the alcohol but not enough to make a tangible difference." How is it a bad analogy? How impaired you are is proportional to what your blood alcohol is. Are you trying to say the average person at .15 is not more of a risk on the road than a person that's 0.07? You're just trying to muddy the water by adding other factors. Those factors apply weather you're 0.03 or 0.20. Usually people that are drunk and kill people are not around the legal limit, they are usually 2 or 3 times the legal limit. Even the ones that are at or near 0.08 and fatalities are involved, there is usually also speed and./or no seatbelts. If your theory that driving a vehicle at 0.05%-0.07% BAC is not enough to make a "tangible difference" why are 24 or 12 hour suspensions given for drivers who are only at 0.05% BAC? According to you, they should be perfectly able to drive.
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Post by guru on Oct 16, 2014 14:27:51 GMT -4
I think the CHL is big business now and should be treated as such by the media. The Herald played a part in making the Mooseheads popular, the Herald needs the Mooseheads and the Mooseheads need the Herald. I hate to use a pro-football analogy since this is junior hockey, but I remember when Ed Werder as a beat reporter for the Cowboys used to ruffle feathers. Let Palov do the day to day menial hockey talk, and get someone else to dig deep, because the model today is no longer cutting it here. Big business? There's probably 12 teams on budgets under $1.5 million. Average attendance is near 3000 I believe. I just disagree on the CHL being big business, especially for this argument with the NCAA scandals being what you want. People would also have to pay to read newspapers for them to double their staffing on a hockey team by hiring a reporter and giving him a job that will help to lessen the access Palov will have. Not many are doing that in 2014. Big business for Canada. This is our NCAA.
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Post by guru on Oct 16, 2014 14:33:37 GMT -4
You are right, I'm used to the American media, they just seem to want to dig more deeply into things. The Canadian media meanwhile slobber all over the hockey players. For the record, I don't like the ESPN approach to make scandals their entire talking point, that shit drives me crazy. But I think we do need deeper investigations into the QMJHL or Mooseheads. For example, howcome nobody reported on the rumours of Duclair getting a lot of money to report to Quebec? I have no idea if it is true, just going by what people said on here. Was Drouin really concerned about not being "ready" for the Q or was it something else? Posters on here have written about past Moosehead players receiving lots of money or vehicles, where did the money come from? That kind of things has me curious. My understanding is teams aren't allowed to pay under the table (can't prove under the table payments though). In the US, they would look into these kinds of things. And as I stated before, the time gap on when the Herald decided to run with the Vuic story is concerning. As Rogan pointed out, he was out of the lineup and people wanted to know why, seems people at the Herald knew why but waited until other outlets reported first. Seems like Russell and the Herald made a joint statement after the Metro News first reported it. Our main access to Mooseheads and Q knowledge needs to go through checkpoints. It bothers me. At the end of the day, this is no big deal, it is just a junior hockey team, not politics, but still out of principle, I'm not fond of a controlled message. I can't shake it. Good questions but it again comes down to NCAA rules vs CHL. Reporting on an NCAA players potential side deal means more. For example: To an Alabama reporter or booster finding out Florida State's QB took 500K from their athletic department can mean their own team is in a better situation for success as that breaks NCAA rules and will ban the player and his entire teams success. In the CHL a Duclair's 'deal' isn't illegal. It's a private contract between the player and team. There is no Collective Bargaining Agreement in the QMJHL. The league sets some rules but leaves open loopholes that can be exploited while technically not being illegal. Because of all this and the face that the reporter covering the Mooseheads doesn't benefit much from the teams success other then rooting for the home team and the fans don't have the same financial investment as some of the NCAA folk and you can see why there are and should be 2 different standards of reporting. If checkpoints mean factual reporting that's beneficial to the team and the reporter. You or I don't know if Palov had enough to run the story when you claim he should have reported it, honestly. Or what protocol is at the Herald for such a case. Maybe those are the better questions to be asking. Duclair's deal might not be illegal, but it would be great to know about. It is good for fans of the league of teams who were in a position to draft him but passed. Why nobody has taken it further to look into these deals doesn't make sense. Would be a great story to break for anyone in the media. Dude, there were no charges laid for a week, so nothing changed in that time, yet it was reported a few days before charges were laid but still delayed. No doubt the Herald had all the info. It seems to me you are more for things being closed than open, even if it adds nothing to your experience, not sure why you want things closed. You want to argue until you are blue in the face about why it isn't open when in reality, the media in Canada just lack balls, both at the junior level and at the NHL level.
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Post by guru on Oct 16, 2014 14:34:26 GMT -4
Not sure how you link the media sensationalizing things compared to me not wanting the message being controlled? *shrugs* DRAMA QUEEN! Look it up. Uh I know what you are but what I am? Yo momma! Hurr durr.
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Post by Hot Water on Oct 16, 2014 15:20:33 GMT -4
If a person who has access to inside information (Palov in Halifax for example) begins writing expose' pieces left and right… then he's quickly going to lose access to that information. That shouldn't be hard to figure out. I'm sure Palov knew the details of the Vuic arrest within 24 hours of it happening, and I bet Cam told him to sit on it for a few days as the investigation continued on. Big deal. What exactly do we gain from hearing about it 3 days earlier?
Any comparisons to how the media handled Vuic's situation and how the LA Times would handle someone like a Kobe Bryant's DUI are laughable.
As far as the whole idea of "investigative journalism" in junior hockey goes, I think you guys are overestimating just how much of a market there would be for this type of stuff, and how much material there is to 'expose' so to speak.
Someone asked the question earlier but it's worth repeating again - What exactly do you want to know about these KIDS that you don't already know?
When your answer to that is a 4-year old contract situation (Duclar) that happened 1200 kms away in a different province…. it's obviously not worth the Herald's time to hire an additional reporter or for Palov to piss away his livelihood just so you can get the juicy details on how much Player X got paid to report, or what the real reason player Y didn't show up to training camp was.
Which brings me to my last point - a lot of these things are really none of your business! Just because you're curious about something doesn't give you the right to know about it. We're talking about a 16 year old kid and his families decision at the time. If it really upsets you that much that you're in the dark on the exact dollar figure he got then you need to get a life.
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Post by tday79 on Oct 16, 2014 15:21:18 GMT -4
moosefan_WillyPalov: GM Cam Russell said Brandon Vuic will play for the Mooseheads again, but not this weekend: "We're not ready to make any decisions yet."
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