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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 10:01:05 GMT -4
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Post by joehockey on Dec 16, 2014 10:01:05 GMT -4
I found today’s article to be kind of confusing more than anything. They’re not going to take a step back this season but might be trading their best defenceman for an injured defenceman and an average 18 year old forward? Huh? I know the PR wheels are obviously spinning in these articles, but there has to be more going on than what we’re hearing…right? Interested to see what they might do about the Euro situation. Not much available in terms of 18 year olds. I don’t think Gatineau or CB are going to sell. Even if CB did trade Lazarev I can’t imagine they would want to trade him in the division so the Cats would have to pay extra. Same kind of thing with Ehlers except even more and I have a feeling Halifax isn’t going to move him anyway. If you’re looking at 19 YO’s then Zykov is an option although he likely won’t be back next season and he’s been injured a lot this season. Golovkovs could be a fit. If they just wanted to add a Euro forward for cheap I’m sure Mandat from VDO could be had, but would that even be worth it? Seems like Shannon is putting the team on a treadmill. Seems to be both buying and selling
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 16, 2014 10:30:23 GMT -4
I found today’s article to be kind of confusing more than anything. They’re not going to take a step back this season but might be trading their best defenceman for an injured defenceman and an average 18 year old forward? Huh? I know the PR wheels are obviously spinning in these articles, but there has to be more going on than what we’re hearing…right? Interested to see what they might do about the Euro situation. Not much available in terms of 18 year olds. I don’t think Gatineau or CB are going to sell. Even if CB did trade Lazarev I can’t imagine they would want to trade him in the division so the Cats would have to pay extra. Same kind of thing with Ehlers except even more and I have a feeling Halifax isn’t going to move him anyway. If you’re looking at 19 YO’s then Zykov is an option although he likely won’t be back next season and he’s been injured a lot this season. Golovkovs could be a fit. If they just wanted to add a Euro forward for cheap I’m sure Mandat from VDO could be had, but would that even be worth it? Like you said, it's hard to differentiate the PR from the facts...always seems to be a spin on everything. I don't have issue with the philosophy of trying to be strong every year, but right now the future needs a big boost in order to do that. The run in 12-13 took away some valuable pieces as well as trading away the 1st rounder the last 5 years(once it was a bust that got moved), pretty hard to build a strong core that can compete every year without those "anchor" players in the first 2-3 rounds. Even the picks used have often been really high risk picks like Corson and McInnis. In order to really do it right, they would need to sell big this year(Sweeney Dubeau Barbashev) and add a pile of young assets from the 1997-1998 and 1999 age groups, then build around that.
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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 11:01:50 GMT -4
Post by Arnold Slick on Dec 16, 2014 11:01:50 GMT -4
Part of me wonders how much of this “let’s be good every year” philosophy centers around drafting a bunch of Americans ever year and hoping that more and more start showing up. Yeah it’s possible with the success that some of the guys coming up here have had, but I hope they’re not banking on it too much.
They do really need to start keeping picks in the first five rounds and hitting on those. It’s WAY too early to make any judgments on the 2014 draft class and they barely had any picks in those areas in 2013.
In 2012 the Cats drafted seven players in the first five rounds. One of them is playing for the Cats and a grand total of TWO are actually playing in the league. Of course that was under the old regime…and that’s probably one of the reasons why they’re the old regime.
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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 11:10:34 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 16, 2014 11:10:34 GMT -4
Part of me wonders how much of this “let’s be good every year” philosophy centers around drafting a bunch of Americans ever year and hoping that more and more start showing up. Yeah it’s possible with the success that some of the guys coming up here have had, but I hope they’re not banking on it too much. They do really need to start keeping picks in the first five rounds and hitting on those. It’s WAY too early to make any judgments on the 2014 draft class and they barely had any picks in those areas in 2013. In 2012 the Cats drafted seven players in the first five rounds. One of them is playing for the Cats and a grand total of TWO are actually playing in the league. Of course that was under the old regime…and that’s probably one of the reasons why they’re the old regime. The "old regime" including Nevin had a lot of good drafts and was definitely above average in drafting. The issue Nevins' last few years id he barely had any picks...too much trading away of picks...
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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 11:35:11 GMT -4
Post by jimmy on Dec 16, 2014 11:35:11 GMT -4
A few observations:
- I don't think Dubeau is a trade asset - no home for him ... 20 y/o goalie who is not having a great season - can't see who would take him.
- Barbashev, in spite of being arguably the best player in the league, has very limited trade value taking up a euro spot ... Can't see anyone offering anything close to enough to make us want to move him ...
- Not sure this buy and sell at same time approach is feasible ... When Serge Savard or Sylvain Couturier pull this crap, people laugh at them ... if Shannon isn't careful, he is going to end up lumped in the same boat ...
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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 11:41:56 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 16, 2014 11:41:56 GMT -4
A few observations: - I don't think Dubeau is a trade asset - no home for him ... 20 y/o goalie who is not having a great season - can't see who would take him. - Barbashev, in spite of being arguably the best player in the league, has very limited trade value taking up a euro spot ... Can't see anyone offering anything close to enough to make us want to move him ... - Not sure this buy and sell at same time approach is feasible ... When Serge Savard or Sylvain Couturier pull this crap, people laugh at them ... if Shannon isn't careful, he is going to end up lumped in the same boat ... Would you move Dubeau to CB if they offered a 1st/top young player + Brassard? CB appears to be desperate for goaltending help. Maybe a team like Rim is willing to pay the big price. Barbashev is definitely a key piece and would require a very big return. I would have said the same for Sweeney... I agree on your last statement...
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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 11:53:11 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 16, 2014 11:53:11 GMT -4
A few observations: - I don't think Dubeau is a trade asset - no home for him ... 20 y/o goalie who is not having a great season - can't see who would take him. - Barbashev, in spite of being arguably the best player in the league, has very limited trade value taking up a euro spot ... Can't see anyone offering anything close to enough to make us want to move him ... - Not sure this buy and sell at same time approach is feasible ... When Serge Savard or Sylvain Couturier pull this crap, people laugh at them ... if Shannon isn't careful, he is going to end up lumped in the same boat ... Would you move Dubeau to CB if they offered a 1st/top young player + Brassard? CB appears to be desperate for goaltending help. Maybe a team like Rim is willing to pay the big price. Barbashev is definitely a key piece and would require a very big return. I would have said the same for Sweeney... I agree on your last statement... Why would CB trade a 1st for a 20yr old goalie?
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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 11:59:37 GMT -4
Post by bois on Dec 16, 2014 11:59:37 GMT -4
Would you move Dubeau to CB if they offered a 1st/top young player + Brassard? CB appears to be desperate for goaltending help. Maybe a team like Rim is willing to pay the big price. Barbashev is definitely a key piece and would require a very big return. I would have said the same for Sweeney... I agree on your last statement... Why would CB trade a 1st for a 20yr old goalie? because Billy says so why bother arguing something that has virtually no chance of happening didn't he criticize others for doing this very thing oh about a week ago? hello black kettle
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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 12:00:08 GMT -4
Post by bois on Dec 16, 2014 12:00:08 GMT -4
Barbashev is very good..... but he is not the best player in the league
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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 12:01:44 GMT -4
Post by Arnold Slick on Dec 16, 2014 12:01:44 GMT -4
Part of me wonders how much of this “let’s be good every year” philosophy centers around drafting a bunch of Americans ever year and hoping that more and more start showing up. Yeah it’s possible with the success that some of the guys coming up here have had, but I hope they’re not banking on it too much. They do really need to start keeping picks in the first five rounds and hitting on those. It’s WAY too early to make any judgments on the 2014 draft class and they barely had any picks in those areas in 2013. In 2012 the Cats drafted seven players in the first five rounds. One of them is playing for the Cats and a grand total of TWO are actually playing in the league. Of course that was under the old regime…and that’s probably one of the reasons why they’re the old regime. The "old regime" including Nevin had a lot of good drafts and was definitely above average in drafting. The issue Nevins' last few years id he barely had any picks...too much trading away of picks... I just told you that they had seven picks in the first five rounds in 2012 and five of them were busts. Why don't you go have a peak at the 2011 draft? I'm not sure abysmal even begins to describe that one: 1st round - Brandon Shea 2nd round - Kris Hodge 3rd round - Maxim Pitre, Alexander Centis-Jorge 4th round - Julien Beliveau, Jordan Labbe 5th round - Jack Flinn Yeah there's a real who's who of Q talent! And again seven picks in the first five rounds. But yeah it was all a lack of picks, right? Fact is that Nevin's poor drafting and the bad decision making at the 2013 trade deadline didn't leave Shannon much to work with. I'm not saying I'm entirely sold on him at the moment because I'm not, but you can't blame it all on him.
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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 12:09:58 GMT -4
Post by leftwinglock on Dec 16, 2014 12:09:58 GMT -4
Would you move Dubeau to CB if they offered a 1st/top young player + Brassard? CB appears to be desperate for goaltending help. Maybe a team like Rim is willing to pay the big price. Barbashev is definitely a key piece and would require a very big return. I would have said the same for Sweeney... I agree on your last statement... Why would CB trade a 1st for a 20yr old goalie? I think it comes down to how much pressure Dumont feels to help the team. It's no different then any situation in life, if he feels pressure to get a goalie and at least make a bit of playoff push to get a lengthy first round then he may very well acquire a goalie ( even just for half a season) it buys him some time until he gets a longer term solution. As far as what he pays, it's no different then a Saturday night at the bar. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Could Dubeau fetch a first? Sure. Depends on what CB Values him at. what helps the "cause" if you will is you have 3 first rd picks.... so what's trade one for some help? Personally I think cape breton would be foolish to trade picks to try and do a mini load up But we've done it here to try and make a last minute run.
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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 12:16:47 GMT -4
Post by leftwinglock on Dec 16, 2014 12:16:47 GMT -4
The "old regime" including Nevin had a lot of good drafts and was definitely above average in drafting. The issue Nevins' last few years id he barely had any picks...too much trading away of picks... I just told you that they had seven picks in the first five rounds in 2012 and five of them were busts. Why don't you go have a peak at the 2011 draft? I'm not sure abysmal even begins to describe that one: 1st round - Brandon Shea 2nd round - Kris Hodge 3rd round - Maxim Pitre, Alexander Centis-Jorge 4th round - Julien Beliveau, Jordan Labbe 5th round - Jack Flinn Yeah there's a real who's who of Q talent! And again seven picks in the first five rounds. But yeah it was all a lack of picks, right? Fact is that Nevin's poor drafting and the bad decision making at the 2013 trade deadline didn't leave Shannon much to work with. I'm not saying I'm entirely sold on him at the moment because I'm not, but you can't blame it all on him. gear down turbo. I think part of the problem was because the players nevin picked didn't fit the type of player danny Flynn wanted... Brandon shea was a good hockey player..... just a baby and didn't handle being away.... total bust but not from lack of talent lack of wanting to be away from home with all his circumstances. kris hodge was traded to shaw for Narbonne Flynn traded to sherbrooke as part of the barbachev trade not all pics pan out but we got into a bad cycle no trading all picks and counting on finding FA's to fill the voids... I think even gagne was a nevin pick ( eventhough he left the year he was drafted) was part of the danault trade along with our 4 first round pics....... Nevin wasn't perfect but he wasn't that bad.... we just couldn't get off the sell all treadmill's
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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 12:19:14 GMT -4
Post by leftwinglock on Dec 16, 2014 12:19:14 GMT -4
The "old regime" including Nevin had a lot of good drafts and was definitely above average in drafting. The issue Nevins' last few years id he barely had any picks...too much trading away of picks... I just told you that they had seven picks in the first five rounds in 2012 and five of them were busts. Why don't you go have a peak at the 2011 draft? I'm not sure abysmal even begins to describe that one: 1st round - Brandon Shea 2nd round - Kris Hodge 3rd round - Maxim Pitre, Alexander Centis-Jorge 4th round - Julien Beliveau, Jordan Labbe 5th round - Jack Flinn Yeah there's a real who's who of Q talent! And again seven picks in the first five rounds. But yeah it was all a lack of picks, right? Fact is that Nevin's poor drafting and the bad decision making at the 2013 trade deadline didn't leave Shannon much to work with. I'm not saying I'm entirely sold on him at the moment because I'm not, but you can't blame it all on him. and you are 100% right you can't blame Shannon because he had bare cupboards and no picks..... I think this year is the first 1st round pick we've had in 4 years!
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Xmas
Dec 16, 2014 12:34:22 GMT -4
Post by lirette on Dec 16, 2014 12:34:22 GMT -4
I just told you that they had seven picks in the first five rounds in 2012 and five of them were busts. Why don't you go have a peak at the 2011 draft? I'm not sure abysmal even begins to describe that one: 1st round - Brandon Shea 2nd round - Kris Hodge 3rd round - Maxim Pitre, Alexander Centis-Jorge 4th round - Julien Beliveau, Jordan Labbe 5th round - Jack Flinn Yeah there's a real who's who of Q talent! And again seven picks in the first five rounds. But yeah it was all a lack of picks, right? Fact is that Nevin's poor drafting and the bad decision making at the 2013 trade deadline didn't leave Shannon much to work with. I'm not saying I'm entirely sold on him at the moment because I'm not, but you can't blame it all on him. gear down turbo. I think part of the problem was because the players nevin picked didn't fit the type of player danny Flynn wanted... Brandon shea was a good hockey player..... just a baby and didn't handle being away.... total bust but not from lack of talent lack of wanting to be away from home with all his circumstances. kris hodge was traded to shaw for Narbonne Flynn traded to sherbrooke as part of the barbachev trade not all pics pan out but we got into a bad cycle no trading all picks and counting on finding FA's to fill the voids... I think even gagne was a nevin pick ( eventhough he left the year he was drafted) was part of the danault trade along with our 4 first round pics....... Nevin wasn't perfect but he wasn't that bad.... we just couldn't get off the sell all treadmill's Regardless of Hodge being traded he did not turn into much of a Q player and he was not in a "Danny Flynn" environment. The fact that he was traded doesn't mean he was a great pick. Shea was a player they traded up to get, scouting is not just watching hockey talent, scouting their personalities is part of it too. There's reasons why players slip down in the draft despite their talent. The 2012 draft included guys like Mann/Hynes/Pugsley/Beaudoin/Tanner McCabe. None of those players are even playing in the Q right now let alone impact players ..that should speak volumes
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Post by SteveUL on Dec 16, 2014 12:38:39 GMT -4
Barbashev is very good..... but he is not the best player in the league I am not even sure how you evaluate a comparison like that. Barbashev is not the top offensive player in the Q ... but he plays physical and plays in all situations, including PP and PK ... and is a team leader. I couldn't tell you who else fits that criteria because I don't follow them all that closely. Does Ehlers play on the PK ? Is he a physical force on the ice ? I am not the guy to answer that. And then ... how do you compare a forward to a Dman or goaltender ? And then ... one player can have great year based on who he plays with ... but another guy can have numbers that might lag a little based on who they get to play with. Very tough to compare apples to apples.
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