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Post by catnut on Dec 10, 2014 11:29:12 GMT -4
Yup, very underwhelmed by anything that has popped up so far in regards to these trades. I don't see any David Savard's in there. No Savards ... but if we aren't contending next year then Donaghey would be a big trading chip. He could be dealt at the draft for a 1st and a player ... minimum. I think with our load of 17 and 18 YOs that we are looking at contending next year ... whether we are true contenders or not. I was expecting that by trading Lalonde and Tkachev + we would receive more than 1 top 6 F or top 4 D in return for next year or at the very least a definite #1 goalie. There has to be something more than what has been rumoured, especially considering the position the Cats were in. We'll be better able to judge the work of Shannon after the other trades.
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Post by Arnold Slick on Dec 10, 2014 12:08:14 GMT -4
I feel like the Cats aren't getting enough for Tkachev AND Sweeney. On the flip side I really don't know how good a lot of these Quebec players are so I can't really make a full judgement. Just seems like a really odd trade. Feels like they needed to make some moves but were afraid to piss off the fans so they had to get help now instead of long term assets. If they were scared of pissing off the fans they could have just stood pat. Instead they potentially weaken themselves for this season in which they had (MAYBE still have) a chance to win the division. Then did they really make themselves THAT much better for next season in a division that should be good? Perhaps slightly, but it doesn't really seem like it. I really hope there's more going on here because these moves make very little sense to me right now.
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Post by SteveUL on Dec 10, 2014 12:13:32 GMT -4
No Savards ... but if we aren't contending next year then Donaghey would be a big trading chip. He could be dealt at the draft for a 1st and a player ... minimum. I think with our load of 17 and 18 YOs that we are looking at contending next year ... whether we are true contenders or not. I was expecting that by trading Lalonde and Tkachev + we would receive more than 1 top 6 F or top 4 D in return for next year or at the very least a definite #1 goalie. There has to be something more than what has been rumoured, especially considering the position the Cats were in. We'll be better able to judge the work of Shannon after the other trades. This is just the talk about the Tkachev deal ... no speculation yet on who might be part of the Lalonde deal ... if any.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 10, 2014 12:20:01 GMT -4
I was expecting that by trading Lalonde and Tkachev + we would receive more than 1 top 6 F or top 4 D in return for next year or at the very least a definite #1 goalie. There has to be something more than what has been rumoured, especially considering the position the Cats were in. We'll be better able to judge the work of Shannon after the other trades. This is just the talk about the Tkachev deal ... no speculation yet on who might be part of the Lalonde deal ... if any. from what I heard it's done...no players coming from Sha.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 10, 2014 12:32:01 GMT -4
Feels like they needed to make some moves but were afraid to piss off the fans so they had to get help now instead of long term assets. If they were scared of pissing off the fans they could have just stood pat. Instead they potentially weaken themselves for this season in which they had (MAYBE still have) a chance to win the division. Then did they really make themselves THAT much better for next season in a division that should be good? Perhaps slightly, but it doesn't really seem like it. I really hope there's more going on here because these moves make very little sense to me right now. I think next year the Maritime division should be strong... SJ-other than Auger Tremaine Dundas Dempsey their team remains intact and a lot of them are entering their prime...Zboril Noel Marsh Chabot Leblanc CB-Farrell is a big loss, Hinds/Darcy and Brassard have not been big contributors...most of their best guys are 17/18 plus Dubois(16), should start peaking next year PEI-only MacKinnon Cobbold and Johnston going...4 top scorers are 17-18, Guilbault Getson and Balmas should be more of a factor Bathurst---who knows...low expectations Halifax---depends if they sell this year, rebuild Unless the Cats add major pieces I think they will be hard pressed to beat out the top 3 losing Sweeney-Tkachev-Barbashev-Lalonde-Dubeau plus Tassi. Garland is good but losing Barbashev will hurt. Brassard is a decent goalie but will be a major downgrade from Dubeau...if they have to draft 2 Euros it will be hard to get one good one let alone two. Smith Johnson Johnston are solid players but not guys who should be on your top line. Askew has the skill but lacking the drive. Malatesta should be pretty good, solid #3-4. Holwell needs to bounce back.
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Post by sc74 on Dec 10, 2014 12:37:40 GMT -4
If Sweeney is the defenseman going to Quebec, Donaghey probably is the one going to Moncton. The forward is Moody or Carozza? I like Moody better than Carozza ... roughly equal offensively right now ... but Moody was a 2nd and Carozza was an 8th so the optics are better. That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say at some point draft rank doesn`t matter. Carozza is becoming a better QMJHLer than Moody. Moody has better hands but Carozza is better in everything else.
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Post by joehockey on Dec 10, 2014 14:13:39 GMT -4
If Sweeney is the defenseman going to Quebec, Donaghey probably is the one going to Moncton. The forward is Moody or Carozza? Yes ... trading one Moody guy for another ... So what you are saying is ... Tkachev (19), Sweeney (19) For Burke (20), Donaghey (18), Moody/Carozza (either is 18), and Brassard (20 next year) at the draft ... + 7th and 8th. Do the 7th and/or 8th go back ? Probably yes ... for Brassard at the draft. I like Moody better than Carozza ... roughly equal offensively right now ... but Moody was a 2nd and Carozza was an 8th so the optics are better. I like it in that we are possibly getting two 18 YOs ... I have always liked Burke but he doesn't hold much value in this if we are backing off on the year ... but not a fan of Brassard at the draft at all. If I'm going to use a 20 YO slot on a goaltender he better be coming off a great season (like Dubeau was). I don't see that with Brassard. Hopefully we aren't adding any picks to this other than the 7th and 8th. If you break it up into 2 trades ... it is Tkachev for Burke and Brassard (at the draft) ... and then ... Sweeney for Donaghey and Moody/Carozza. If Sweeney is back as a 20 YO then I'd want more ... say an additional 3rd. Donaghey won't be here as a 20 YO as he has already signed a contract and will be a pro as a 20 YO. There are some rumours that Moncton is adding a 2nd to it (shaw's 2016 one I think). That would make absolutely no sense if it is the case though. I'm assuming that its wrong though. The deal with no draft picks are included is passable at best right now but if the pick is thrown in than I don't even know what he was thinking. www.journaldequebec.com/2014/12/08/deux-autres-volets-a-la-transaction-entre-les-remparts-et-les-wildcats
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 10, 2014 14:24:33 GMT -4
Yes ... trading one Moody guy for another ... So what you are saying is ... Tkachev (19), Sweeney (19) For Burke (20), Donaghey (18), Moody/Carozza (either is 18), and Brassard (20 next year) at the draft ... + 7th and 8th. Do the 7th and/or 8th go back ? Probably yes ... for Brassard at the draft. I like Moody better than Carozza ... roughly equal offensively right now ... but Moody was a 2nd and Carozza was an 8th so the optics are better. I like it in that we are possibly getting two 18 YOs ... I have always liked Burke but he doesn't hold much value in this if we are backing off on the year ... but not a fan of Brassard at the draft at all. If I'm going to use a 20 YO slot on a goaltender he better be coming off a great season (like Dubeau was). I don't see that with Brassard. Hopefully we aren't adding any picks to this other than the 7th and 8th. If you break it up into 2 trades ... it is Tkachev for Burke and Brassard (at the draft) ... and then ... Sweeney for Donaghey and Moody/Carozza. If Sweeney is back as a 20 YO then I'd want more ... say an additional 3rd. Donaghey won't be here as a 20 YO as he has already signed a contract and will be a pro as a 20 YO. There are some rumours that Moncton is adding a 2nd to it (shaw's 2016 one I think). That would make absolutely no sense if it is the case though. I'm assuming that its wrong though. The deal with no draft picks are included is passable at best right now but if the pick is thrown in than I don't even know what he was thinking. www.journaldequebec.com/2014/12/08/deux-autres-volets-a-la-transaction-entre-les-remparts-et-les-wildcatsThe pick received by the cats was their 2nd in 2016 which was dealt away on May 31st to move up in the draft and pick Corson. 2014-05-31 Shawinigan Moncton Rd_2, #37, 2014(Corson) Moncton Shawinigan Rd_3, 2015 (Que)(Sutton) Rd_2, 2016
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Post by joehockey on Dec 10, 2014 14:31:53 GMT -4
The pick received by the cats was their 2nd in 2016 which was dealt away on May 31st to move up in the draft and pick Corson. 2014-05-31 Shawinigan Moncton Rd_2, #37, 2014(Corson) Moncton Shawinigan Rd_3, 2015 (Que)(Sutton) Rd_2, 2016 Fair enough.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 10, 2014 14:39:00 GMT -4
The pick received by the cats was their 2nd in 2016 which was dealt away on May 31st to move up in the draft and pick Corson. 2014-05-31 Shawinigan Moncton Rd_2, #37, 2014(Corson) Moncton Shawinigan Rd_3, 2015 (Que)(Sutton) Rd_2, 2016 Fair enough. The Corson and Askew deals were expensive for 2 guys with rough years... Combined... Corson(1998) + Askew(1997) + 9th round 2014 + 12rd round 2014 Simpson(1995) Beaudoin(1996) 2nd rounder 2016(WC) 3rd rounder 2015(Que) 2nd rounder 2014(RN) 2nd rounder 2015 4th rounder 2016(Bat)
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Post by SteveUL on Dec 10, 2014 14:47:49 GMT -4
The Corson and Askew deals were expensive for 2 guys with rough years... Combined... Corson(1998) + Askew(1997) + 9th round 2014 + 12rd round 2014 Simpson(1995) Beaudoin(1996) 2nd rounder 2016(WC) 3rd rounder 2015(Que) 2nd rounder 2014(RN) 2nd rounder 2015 4th rounder 2016(Bat) Askew gets better every game ... and his work ethic has really improved. He is 17 still ... he'll be just fine.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 10, 2014 14:55:07 GMT -4
The Corson and Askew deals were expensive for 2 guys with rough years... Combined... Corson(1998) + Askew(1997) + 9th round 2014 + 12rd round 2014 Simpson(1995) Beaudoin(1996) 2nd rounder 2016(WC) 3rd rounder 2015(Que) 2nd rounder 2014(RN) 2nd rounder 2015 4th rounder 2016(Bat) Askew gets better every game ... and his work ethic has really improved. He is 17 still ... he'll be just fine. Not sure where you see that work ethic, he's playing with the 2 best forwards on the team for most of the last couple of weeks and has 1 point in 5 games while they have 8 and 9 in that span. He is maddening to watch float around and not compete. Leger has 3 more points and he's played mostly 4th line while Askew has been top 6 all but 1 or 2 games.
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Post by sc74 on Dec 10, 2014 15:02:45 GMT -4
Askew is a frustrating player and always will be. All the talent, 0 work ethic. Grigorenko looks like an intense player compared to him.
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Post by SteveUL on Dec 10, 2014 16:02:14 GMT -4
Askew gets better every game ... and his work ethic has really improved. He is 17 still ... he'll be just fine. Not sure where you see that work ethic, he's playing with the 2 best forwards on the team for most of the last couple of weeks and has 1 point in 5 games while they have 8 and 9 in that span. He is maddening to watch float around and not compete. Leger has 3 more points and he's played mostly 4th line while Askew has been top 6 all but 1 or 2 games. Compared to what he showed in Sept and Oct ... I see a marked improvement in the effort he puts out. If you don't see an improvement then you are blind ... or just too much of a hater to acknowledge it. Leger has actually had almost as much time with Barbashev and Garland over the last month ... the two have flip-flopped in the role a few times. Askew is a bit awkward as a very tall kid at 17 ... just like Bruce Graham and Luke Pelham ... but as they aged and strengthened they became far more productive and valuable. I think we just need to give him time to grow into his body. Sweeney was also not too impressive at 17 ... but when he grew into his height he became a good Dman. The effort is there when it wasn't a month ago ... he is working hard ... showing flashes of real skill ... but still showing some clumsiness.
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Post by hockeyfanatic on Dec 10, 2014 17:08:39 GMT -4
Askew looks like he is getting better, but not like the second line centre that he was hyped up to be(by fans) . I was impressed with his game against CHA islanders Nov 30 , He even got into a fight , also Murphy looked good . They will be fine , just need more ice time and experience.
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