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Post by eaglefan62 on Jun 5, 2017 8:15:07 GMT -4
All very interesting thoughts and comments about the draft, kids not showing up, kids using the NCAA card,etc etc. I see that there is a very simple solution to all of this. Several years ago the CHL banned its juniot teams from drafting European goaltenders. The NCAA has rules in place that if a certain kid tires out for a CHL team for a period of time and plays in an exhibition game, the kid then becomes ineligible. Why does the CHL not respond in kind. Quite simply put, if a kid is drafted by a CHL team and he fails to report to his team, he then becomes ineligible to play in the CHL. Also if a kid uses the NCAA card and goes to NCAA, again he then becomes ineligible for the CHL. If some of these kids are as good as they or their agents think, they will be noticed no matter where they play. You are not depriving a kid of playing NCAA, but if he decides that is what you want, toodile doo, see you later. There are a hundred kids just chomping at the bit to take your place.
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 5, 2017 8:19:41 GMT -4
Halifax has a very strong program because they built it that way. Smith hires quality people to run the show and that has resulted in success for them. They are a desirable place for kids to play because they are an excellent program.
Teams like Bathurst and BC (and a few others) have been labeled over the last 10 to 15 years as less than desirable places to play. Both have improved in recent times, but it takes more than a few good seasons to lose that tag. Bathurst apparently still has players asking to get out.
So if a kid like Barron will only play in Halifax, that's just him choosing which school he is going to go to for the next stage of his life. When I was 17 years old I chose which school I was going to go to also ... why shouldn't any other kid have that right.
The draft will never be fair. It is unfair to think that you can force a kid to go live in some community he doesn't want to live in. This isn't the NHL ... there is no million dollar payday for going where you are told.
If you want to minimize the "games" that get played at the draft, ban the trading of 1st round picks, and ban the trading of players that are still in highschool. If a kid gets drafted by a team he doesn't like, he won't be able to force a trade, and teams like Halifax won't be able to trade up to get him.
I have been advocating the ban on trading 1st round picks for several years now. Every team should go to the draft and come away with at least one highly talented player ... it will be better for the league and create more parity.
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Post by devinm on Jun 5, 2017 8:22:40 GMT -4
All very interesting thoughts and comments about the draft, kids not showing up, kids using the NCAA card,etc etc. I see that there is a very simple solution to all of this. Several years ago the CHL banned its juniot teams from drafting European goaltenders. The NCAA has rules in place that if a certain kid tires out for a CHL team for a period of time and plays in an exhibition game, the kid then becomes ineligible. Why does the CHL not respond in kind. Quite simply put, if a kid is drafted by a CHL team and he fails to report to his team, he then becomes ineligible to play in the CHL. Also if a kid uses the NCAA card and goes to NCAA, again he then becomes ineligible for the CHL. If some of these kids are as good as they or their agents think, they will be noticed no matter where they play. You are not depriving a kid of playing NCAA, but if he decides that is what you want, toodile doo, see you later. There are a hundred kids just chomping at the bit to take your place. The issue is you take away from the talent within the league, anything you do to try and fix this issue good players go and play somewhere else. You want as many good players in the league as you can get, They should honestly open up a 3rd Euro spot on teams to boost the teams. The CHL is losing ground to the ncaa, and when you are not the best league to play in the best talent will go elsewhere.
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 5, 2017 8:24:54 GMT -4
All very interesting thoughts and comments about the draft, kids not showing up, kids using the NCAA card,etc etc. I see that there is a very simple solution to all of this. Several years ago the CHL banned its juniot teams from drafting European goaltenders. The NCAA has rules in place that if a certain kid tires out for a CHL team for a period of time and plays in an exhibition game, the kid then becomes ineligible. Why does the CHL not respond in kind. Quite simply put, if a kid is drafted by a CHL team and he fails to report to his team, he then becomes ineligible to play in the CHL. Also if a kid uses the NCAA card and goes to NCAA, again he then becomes ineligible for the CHL. If some of these kids are as good as they or their agents think, they will be noticed no matter where they play. You are not depriving a kid of playing NCAA, but if he decides that is what you want, toodile doo, see you later. There are a hundred kids just chomping at the bit to take your place. Because the Q is a business ... and so the best product they can put forward has the best players in the league. If you start banning the top players then you don't have your Mackinnons or Drouins or Gormleys. The league becomes a less talented product. It is also a bad practice to ban a kid who chooses education over the Q. What kind of message does that send ?
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Post by devinm on Jun 5, 2017 8:26:41 GMT -4
This is all really a failure of our school system in a big way. From grade primary kids should have french immersion classes all kids. There is no reason why everyone in this country could not be Bilingual.
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Post by chsb on Jun 5, 2017 8:31:46 GMT -4
This is all really a failure of our school system in a big way. From grade primary kids should have french immersion classes all kids. There is no reason why everyone in this country could not be Bilingual. AGREED! Here is a link where 6 of 12 first round best prospects did not even want to talk to BC GM: www.lapresse.ca/le-nouvelliste/sports/hockey-junior/201705/08/01-5095966-lhjmq-la-partie-de-poker-est-enclenchee.php«Alex Newhook (5e), Justin Barron (6e), Bailey Peach (9e), Jeremy Jacques (11e), Dawson Mercer (12e) et Jaxon Bellamy (16e) ne veulent pas nous rencontrer." Meanwhile all the top Quebecers in the draft were ready to report anywhere.
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Post by Citris on Jun 5, 2017 8:32:00 GMT -4
Halifax has a very strong program because they built it that way. Smith hires quality people to run the show and that has resulted in success for them. They are a desirable place for kids to play because they are an excellent program. Teams like Bathurst and BC (and a few others) have been labeled over the last 10 to 15 years as less than desirable places to play. Both have improved in recent times, but it takes more than a few good seasons to lose that tag. Bathurst apparently still has players asking to get out. So if a kid like Barron will only play in Halifax, that's just him choosing which school he is going to go to for the next stage of his life. When I was 17 years old I chose which school I was going to go to also ... why shouldn't any other kid have that right. The draft will never be fair. It is unfair to think that you can force a kid to go live in some community he doesn't want to live in. This isn't the NHL ... there is no million dollar payday for going where you are told. If you want to minimize the "games" that get played at the draft, ban the trading of 1st round picks, and ban the trading of players that are still in highschool. If a kid gets drafted by a team he doesn't like, he won't be able to force a trade, and teams like Halifax won't be able to trade up to get him. I have been advocating the ban on trading 1st round picks for several years now. Every team should go to the draft and come away with at least one highly talented player ... it will be better for the league and create more parity. Banning trading first round picks creates parity, which is why the OHL sends the same teams to the memorial cup over and over again. Give me a break. We already have a league using that model and we can see it doesn't work. Teams like London will still have a massive advantage... the only difference is the smaller market teams will have a worse return on their assets. Banning first round picks doesn't create parity it creates monopoly.
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Post by joehockey on Jun 5, 2017 8:37:03 GMT -4
This is all really a failure of our school system in a big way. From grade primary kids should have french immersion classes all kids. There is no reason why everyone in this country could not be Bilingual. AGREED! Here is a link where 6 of 12 first round best prospects did not even want to talk to BC GM: www.lapresse.ca/le-nouvelliste/sports/hockey-junior/201705/08/01-5095966-lhjmq-la-partie-de-poker-est-enclenchee.php«Alex Newhook (5e), Justin Barron (6e), Bailey Peach (9e), Jeremy Jacques (11e), Dawson Mercer (12e) et Jaxon Bellamy (16e) ne veulent pas nous rencontrer." Meanwhile all the top Quebecers in the draft were ready to report anywhere. Jacques is from Quebec so they weren't all ready to report anywhere. Moncton doesn't even have a commitment from him so he may not ever play in the Q
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 5, 2017 8:39:33 GMT -4
This is all really a failure of our school system in a big way. From grade primary kids should have french immersion classes all kids. There is no reason why everyone in this country could not be Bilingual. NB has had French immersion for years ... in various forms ... but most of the kids coming out of our English School system can't qualify for bilingual status, and don't qualify for government employment that requires bilingual status. Everybody in this country does not have the desire to be bilingual. Nobody west of Ontario has a need for bilingual services. Kids chasing a hockey career are told that the language of hockey is English.
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 5, 2017 8:44:43 GMT -4
Halifax has a very strong program because they built it that way. Smith hires quality people to run the show and that has resulted in success for them. They are a desirable place for kids to play because they are an excellent program. Teams like Bathurst and BC (and a few others) have been labeled over the last 10 to 15 years as less than desirable places to play. Both have improved in recent times, but it takes more than a few good seasons to lose that tag. Bathurst apparently still has players asking to get out. So if a kid like Barron will only play in Halifax, that's just him choosing which school he is going to go to for the next stage of his life. When I was 17 years old I chose which school I was going to go to also ... why shouldn't any other kid have that right. The draft will never be fair. It is unfair to think that you can force a kid to go live in some community he doesn't want to live in. This isn't the NHL ... there is no million dollar payday for going where you are told. If you want to minimize the "games" that get played at the draft, ban the trading of 1st round picks, and ban the trading of players that are still in highschool. If a kid gets drafted by a team he doesn't like, he won't be able to force a trade, and teams like Halifax won't be able to trade up to get him. I have been advocating the ban on trading 1st round picks for several years now. Every team should go to the draft and come away with at least one highly talented player ... it will be better for the league and create more parity. Banning trading first round picks creates parity, which is why the OHL sends the same teams to the memorial cup over and over again. Give me a break. We already have a league using that model and we can see it doesn't work. Teams like London will still have a massive advantage... the only difference is the smaller market teams will have a worse return on their assets. Banning first round picks doesn't create parity it creates monopoly. London is an exception to the rule ... they have built such a strong program that everybody wants to play there ... Americans and Euros will line up to play there. Don't fault one team for doing their jobs so well that they get rewarded for it annually. Banning trading 1sts and young players will protect teams from their overzealous GMs who trade picks like candy.
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Post by chootoi on Jun 5, 2017 8:52:37 GMT -4
This is all really a failure of our school system in a big way. From grade primary kids should have french immersion classes all kids. There is no reason why everyone in this country could not be Bilingual. I agree this would be great in a perfect world but the logistics are there just aren't enough qualified bilingual teachers to teach immersion to every child in Canada. It would probably take multiple generations to get to a point where this is feasible. New Brunswick oddly enough could be perhaps the only province that could pull it off in the reasonable short term.
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 5, 2017 8:55:53 GMT -4
This is all really a failure of our school system in a big way. From grade primary kids should have french immersion classes all kids. There is no reason why everyone in this country could not be Bilingual. I agree this would be great in a perfect world but the logistics are there just aren't enough qualified bilingual teachers to teach immersion to every child in Canada. It would probably take multiple generations to get to a point where this is feasible. New Brunswick oddly enough could be perhaps the only province that could pull it off in the reasonable short term. NB has been trying and failing for years. It isn't really "immersion" if the majority speak another language ... you aren't immersing anybody into a language when they go home and speak English with their parents and friends.
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Post by Citris on Jun 5, 2017 9:19:01 GMT -4
London is an exception to the rule ... they have built such a strong program that everybody wants to play there ... Americans and Euros will line up to play there. Don't fault one team for doing their jobs so well that they get rewarded for it annually. Banning trading 1sts and young players will protect teams from their overzealous GMs who trade picks like candy. Halifax is also an exception to the rule. If there were no exceptions to the rules, nobody would be complaining about the rules. People don't like the exception. As for your second paragraph, Banning trading first round picks will just make second rounders the new first rounders. You can't ban bad management.
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Post by Reesor on Jun 5, 2017 9:40:26 GMT -4
The Q is definitely unique in that there is a language barrier that affects both Anglophone and Francophone players. Francophone players can speak enough English to get by, but they go through school in Quebec preparing for the CEGEP program, which isn't readily available in Nova Scotia. Anglophone players may be able to ask where the washrooms are in French, but can't carry a conversation or be expected to go to a mainly French school and succeed. I don't blame 15/16yo kids or their families for wanting to play hockey in a location that is in their comfort zone.
If specific kids decide that they'd like to play in the USA, unless their favorite QMJHL team comes knocking, that is a tougher situation to stomach if you're a fan of an opposing team. There are teams that are run better than others, and you know darn well that player reps know this, and are telling their clients. As others have said, I truly believe the best way to ensure you get the maximum amount of players to report to you, is to have the best management and coaching staff you can get, put together the best program you can put together, and make your team the best 4-5 year experience for these kids that you can. If after that, certain players don't want to play for you, then you've done all you can. You can either call their bluff by drafting them anyway, or you can make trades and get maximum value in these types of situations. Nathan MacKinnon, Jonathan Drouin, Adam Erne, Olivier Roy, Jared McIsaac, Justin Barron... say what you want about these players, but teams got max value for them, either by drafting them and then trading them, or trading their pick to other teams.
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Post by devinm on Jun 5, 2017 9:54:21 GMT -4
As a country we have really failed when it comes to knowing different languages, look at kids in Europe they know several languages in some cases. Our country that is multi cultural has completely dropped the ball on this. Yes it would take a lot of time to make this happen, so does getting rid of racism does that mean we shouldn't get rid of it?
Also the statement that people west of Ontario don't need French is stupid, who in this country doesn't need education? People out west don't work in Government or in company's that are large enough that they are coast to coast? No one works in company's that work overseas?
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