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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 5, 2017 10:03:06 GMT -4
I don't really want to start this circular argument, because they same things are said every year on here, and on the French board. We go through six pages of the same statements about forcing kids to play for teams and how that simply won't work, and we end up in the same spot every single time. If you have an idea that hasn't been brought up every year, then throw it on here and we'll discuss it. But remember that forcing kids to play for the team they're drafted by doesn't work, or it would already be a rule. I see posters saying that if nothing is changed, it will drive fans away. I have a good chuckle at that one every time I hear it. That's a fun and safe threat to make because no one can prove them wrong, but they have no proof that it's right. To tell the truth, I am short of ideas on this one. However I can tell you that there is too much smoke right now to not start a fire sometime. The agents are the ones to greatly blame in this. I have never seen so many parents believe that their little baby has something real special....and the agents are good at a selling job in that matter. The teams are to blame, not agents. And there's no smoke. It's 2 days after the draft so this is the status quo. But you'd have to remember the last 15 years to remember that this is what happens every year. A bunch of fans online are scared a big market team will get an elite talent lower then they should have. It's not smoke it's sour grapes. Ask those Quebec based fans you're talking to or about to name the Remparts Presidents Cup championships. They've been by far the biggest spenders so the winning and championships should be easy to point out especially when compared to teams like Baie-Comeau and Rouyn Noranda where apparently nobody wants to play. It's almost like we have this huge talent pool and the 3 or 4 every year who want some extras are not always the elite players you win championships and sell tickets around.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 5, 2017 10:07:16 GMT -4
As a country we have really failed when it comes to knowing different languages, look at kids in Europe they know several languages in some cases. Our country that is multi cultural has completely dropped the ball on this. Yes it would take a lot of time to make this happen, so does getting rid of racism does that mean we shouldn't get rid of it? Also the statement that people west of Ontario don't need French is stupid, who in this country doesn't need education? People out west don't work in Government or in company's that are large enough that they are coast to coast? No one works in company's that work overseas? Technology is making the need to be multilingual less and less important. I don't think the statement is stupid at all. People west of Ontario don't need French if they don't feel they want it. Their economy is not at all dependent on it so why would they need it? It's a skill like anything else. But not necessary for 99% of people so by my math that makes it not very essential. Overseas companies usually deal in English with any company outside their own country. Depends in some cases where they're from and who they employ but if you're an executive only speaking English you'll get by just fine in almost every situation. It's way more important for the primarily French speaking people to know English if they want to work in a different area of the country. Even more so for hockey players.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 5, 2017 10:09:35 GMT -4
I And believe me I am not biased but you should read some comments.... I expect some more rule changes in the coming because this is a joke of a draft. A) You're the MOST bias. B) This draft is one of the better "non-joke" drafts since i've been a fan of the league. Maybe 1 or 2 players dropped due to NCAA and the biggest one may actually go NCAA. This stuff is LESS important then it's ever been. Now please give us more fire and smoke analogies that mean nothing while you prove you can't seem to remember what went on only 5 or 10 years ago while telling us this was worse then ever.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 5, 2017 10:16:57 GMT -4
Quite simply put, if a kid is drafted by a CHL team and he fails to report to his team, he then becomes ineligible to play in the CHL. Also if a kid uses the NCAA card and goes to NCAA, again he then becomes ineligible for the CHL So you want any and all free agents banned from the Q. Your system either A) bans all FA's or B) Makes the issue worse by allowing all the top players to just become free agents at 17. Anyone want to list the free agents every market would miss out on by taking this approach? And this doesn't include getting into the loss of money when it makes this very small issue worse by giving EVERY kid the right to pick their team when it might be 3 kids doing it now so inevitably fans lose interest in many markets. Just go to an 8 team league and get rid of the bottom 10 markets. Problem solved. That's where you end up inevitably if you essentially ban all top players from the league.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 5, 2017 10:21:20 GMT -4
This is all really a failure of our school system in a big way. From grade primary kids should have french immersion classes all kids. There is no reason why everyone in this country could not be Bilingual. Disagree completely. Issue also exists, and is way worse, in the OHL where they all speak English. Any time there's a situation with 2 languages you're going to run into issues like these but if it was such a major problem we would see a lot more of these cases then we do. And Quebec is always on these players lists because they have money. Language is not an issue near as much as the size of places like Rouyn and CB are in relation to the bigger markets.
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 5, 2017 10:30:22 GMT -4
London is an exception to the rule ... they have built such a strong program that everybody wants to play there ... Americans and Euros will line up to play there. Don't fault one team for doing their jobs so well that they get rewarded for it annually. Banning trading 1sts and young players will protect teams from their overzealous GMs who trade picks like candy. Halifax is also an exception to the rule. If there were no exceptions to the rules, nobody would be complaining about the rules. People don't like the exception. As for your second paragraph, Banning trading first round picks will just make second rounders the new first rounders. You can't ban bad management. I realize that with the 2nds ... but at least every team comes hone from the draft with one very talented player.
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Post by Reesor on Jun 5, 2017 10:31:49 GMT -4
This is all really a failure of our school system in a big way. From grade primary kids should have french immersion classes all kids. There is no reason why everyone in this country could not be Bilingual. Disagree completely. Issue also exists, and is way worse, in the OHL where they all speak English. Any time there's a situation with 2 languages you're going to run into issues like these but if it was such a major problem we would see a lot more of these cases then we do. And Quebec is always on these players lists because they have money. Language is not an issue near as much as the size of places like Rouyn and CB are in relation to the bigger markets. The language issue is a legitimate argument for players and their families here in Eastern Canada. I don't think the language issue is an issue in Ontario and Western Canada. I know there are teams like London that seem to get all of the very good American-born players to report. Windsor got caught breaking the rules and got punished for it. If we assume every other team is innocent, then we can attribute London's success at getting top-end American talent to having a top-notch organization. Is there a big issue in the rest of the country of Canadian players not reporting to other teams? Has there been any common reasons why this is the case? I don't follow the other leagues nearly as much so I'm not aware of any systemic issues. But it would be interesting to see if there is a common theme.
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Post by Gman on Jun 5, 2017 10:39:10 GMT -4
I And believe me I am not biased but you should read some comments.... I expect some more rule changes in the coming because this is a joke of a draft. A) You're the MOST bias. B) This draft is one of the better "non-joke" drafts since i've been a fan of the league. Maybe 1 or 2 players dropped due to NCAA and the biggest one may actually go NCAA. This stuff is LESS important then it's ever been. Now please give us more fire and smoke analogies that mean nothing while you prove you can't seem to remember what went on only 5 or 10 years ago while telling us this was worse then ever. The most poetic part in all of this, is the player he's primarily bitching about (Barron) was drafted with the pick that was originally owned by Bathurst. Talk about salt in the wound lol.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 5, 2017 10:42:46 GMT -4
Disagree completely. Issue also exists, and is way worse, in the OHL where they all speak English. Any time there's a situation with 2 languages you're going to run into issues like these but if it was such a major problem we would see a lot more of these cases then we do. And Quebec is always on these players lists because they have money. Language is not an issue near as much as the size of places like Rouyn and CB are in relation to the bigger markets. The language issue is a legitimate argument for players and their families here in Eastern Canada. I don't think the language issue is an issue in Ontario and Western Canada. I know there are teams like London that seem to get all of the very good American-born players to report. Windsor got caught breaking the rules and got punished for it. If we assume every other team is innocent, then we can attribute London's success at getting top-end American talent to having a top-notch organization. Is there a big issue in the rest of the country of Canadian players not reporting to other teams? Has there been any common reasons why this is the case? I don't follow the other leagues nearly as much so I'm not aware of any systemic issues. But it would be interesting to see if there is a common theme. Windsor looked very punished 8 days ago. Hockey tends to punish violators in funny ways.
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Post by Citris on Jun 5, 2017 10:47:52 GMT -4
I realize that with the 2nds ... but at least every team comes hone from the draft with one very talented player. Again. Not necessarily. Players still pick and chose their markets (Max Domi being a recent example), and draft busts still happen. You have teams forced to pick BPA ... that will actually show up at camp. I much prefer the NHL style we have right now, the Q is the only league that does the draft right imo.
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 5, 2017 10:51:08 GMT -4
London is an exception to the rule ... they have built such a strong program that everybody wants to play there ... Americans and Euros will line up to play there. Don't fault one team for doing their jobs so well that they get rewarded for it annually. Banning trading 1sts and young players will protect teams from their overzealous GMs who trade picks like candy. Halifax is also an exception to the rule. If there were no exceptions to the rules, nobody would be complaining about the rules. People don't like the exception. As for your second paragraph, Banning trading first round picks will just make second rounders the new first rounders. You can't ban bad management. Halifax is not an exception to the rule yet ... but they are moving toward that. The only advantage Halifax has right now is that NS born players want to play there ... it doesn't extend to kids from Quebec, NB, PEI. They all certainly will be happy to go to Halifax, but won't hold out from going other places. Some kids from NB and PEI, and NFLD might say they don't want to go to Quebec, because of the language concern, but they will go to other Maritime teams. But Halifax is a great destination for anybody. Great City, loads of university opportunities, well run franchise that has produced kids for the NHL, you get to play in front of big crowds, etc. Lots of Q destinations can't come close to competing with that. Really only the Remparts can ... but they face the language issues. Moncton and Saint John are 2nd teir to Halifax and Quebec. They are still able to convince kids with options to join their program ... but can't offer the same benefits that Halifax/Quebec can ... stuff that can't be bought with money.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 5, 2017 10:58:41 GMT -4
Disagree completely. Issue also exists, and is way worse, in the OHL where they all speak English. Any time there's a situation with 2 languages you're going to run into issues like these but if it was such a major problem we would see a lot more of these cases then we do. And Quebec is always on these players lists because they have money. Language is not an issue near as much as the size of places like Rouyn and CB are in relation to the bigger markets. The language issue is a legitimate argument for players and their families here in Eastern Canada. I don't think the language issue is an issue in Ontario and Western Canada. I know there are teams like London that seem to get all of the very good American-born players to report. Windsor got caught breaking the rules and got punished for it. If we assume every other team is innocent, then we can attribute London's success at getting top-end American talent to having a top-notch organization. Is there a big issue in the rest of the country of Canadian players not reporting to other teams? Has there been any common reasons why this is the case? I don't follow the other leagues nearly as much so I'm not aware of any systemic issues. But it would be interesting to see if there is a common theme. If it's such a concern then why are so many Maritime kids pumped to go play in the province today after being drafted? Kids want to play in certain markets but very few kids from the Maritimes are making language barrier the reason because it's not. Enough Maritimes have gone through Rouyn now for anyone to get a good picture on what life is like there. Same with Quebec based players in Maritime markets like CB. If language was really such an issue this league would be a disaster with this setup. But it's really not.
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Post by Reesor on Jun 5, 2017 11:21:14 GMT -4
The language issue is a legitimate argument for players and their families here in Eastern Canada. I don't think the language issue is an issue in Ontario and Western Canada. I know there are teams like London that seem to get all of the very good American-born players to report. Windsor got caught breaking the rules and got punished for it. If we assume every other team is innocent, then we can attribute London's success at getting top-end American talent to having a top-notch organization. Is there a big issue in the rest of the country of Canadian players not reporting to other teams? Has there been any common reasons why this is the case? I don't follow the other leagues nearly as much so I'm not aware of any systemic issues. But it would be interesting to see if there is a common theme. If it's such a concern then why are so many Maritime kids pumped to go play in the province today after being drafted? Kids want to play in certain markets but very few kids from the Maritimes are making language barrier the reason because it's not. Enough Maritimes have gone through Rouyn now for anyone to get a good picture on what life is like there. Same with Quebec based players in Maritime markets like CB. If language was really such an issue this league would be a disaster with this setup. But it's really not. I guess it CAN be an issue. But it is not normally an issue. Are some players and their families mis-informed when it comes to education options in other provinces? Maybe. Are some players and their families using language as an excuse to choose which teams they'll report to? (perhaps to stay closer to home?) Also maybe. In the end, it really is the player's choice where they want to play hockey. They could stick around in Junior A/AAA and play locally if they really wanted to. Someone on the French board wanted to penalize teams for taking players that were ranked in the 1st round in later rounds (Think the Newhook situation). Newhook falling to #41 was not Halifax's fault. They took the chance on him. So I don't really understand why teams should be penalized for taking a chance on a player.
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Post by Citris on Jun 5, 2017 11:21:19 GMT -4
Halifax is not an exception to the rule yet ... but they are moving toward that. Sorry, let me rephrase, the argument from some of the fanbase of smaller french teams is that Halifax (and possibly a few others) are exceptions to the rule. And that seems to be the primary motive for wanting to change the draft format.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 5, 2017 11:35:46 GMT -4
Halifax is not an exception to the rule yet ... but they are moving toward that. Sorry, let me rephrase, the argument from some of the fanbase of smaller french teams is that Halifax (and possibly a few others) are exceptions to the rule. And that seems to be the primary motive for wanting to change the draft format. Yet every suggestion ends up having so many holes that the current system ends up being the best format. Even the NHL can't force a kid to go where he doesn't want to be. All these people forget Lindros apparently. And inevitably it will happen again. These same whiners complained about kids like Bowers who never even played in the league lets not forget. They want what is really impossible for any sport: a draft that is perfect.
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