|
Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 5, 2017 16:44:36 GMT -4
London has VERY deep pockets, their attendance is up around 10,000 per game plus they are owned/run by former NHLers. They have all the factors in their favor...a team like BC could not compete on the same level as London. But they still scout and draft well. Nobody argues that Moncton and Quebec have equally deep pockets. But where is their constant supply of star Europeans and impact Americans? London never becomes complacent. They're always out looking for the next top player. Yes they have the means, but so do many other big markets that are not near as good year in year out. I think the OHL has a big edge with Americans mostly due to the fact that they go after NY and Michigan states, which are less hardcore NCAA than Mass and NH. Michigan and MSU are hockey powers, but the state does not have the NCAA profile that Mass has with the Beanpot and like 10 teams within 90 minutes of Boston. Losing Lewiston hurt the Q also, OHL has a few teams in the states so it gives them a footprint in those areas.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 5, 2017 16:49:58 GMT -4
But they still scout and draft well. Nobody argues that Moncton and Quebec have equally deep pockets. But where is their constant supply of star Europeans and impact Americans? London never becomes complacent. They're always out looking for the next top player. Yes they have the means, but so do many other big markets that are not near as good year in year out. I think the OHL has a big edge with Americans mostly due to the fact that they go after NY and Michigan states, which are less hardcore NCAA than Mass and NH. Michigan and MSU are hockey powers, but the state does not have the NCAA profile that Mass has with the Beanpot and like 10 teams within 90 minutes of Boston. Losing Lewiston hurt the Q also, OHL has a few teams in the states so it gives them a footprint in those areas. I believe that losing Lewiston didn't have any effect whatsoever. It's the drop down in education money that's made less Americans come here. Americans didn't even know Lewiston existed in the Q outside of the fans of the team. That team would have had to have been there for decades to ever see a tangible return on any investment in the area player wise and even then Maine would still be the destination for most. Was no change before them, with them, or after them outside of a few thousands Americans wishing they still have a high level of hockey in their town.
|
|
|
Post by sc74 on Jun 5, 2017 16:59:33 GMT -4
That is a reason I don't buy. If he doesn't get drafted by Halifax but by Drummondville, he would go to USHL just because he 'wanted' to be closer to home?! Much like i'm sure Lafreniere would have been Quebec or nothing had CB owned the #1 pick. I understand your point and I agree but don't start stories that didn't happen just to prove it.
|
|
|
Post by sc74 on Jun 5, 2017 17:06:40 GMT -4
I think the OHL has a big edge with Americans mostly due to the fact that they go after NY and Michigan states, which are less hardcore NCAA than Mass and NH. Michigan and MSU are hockey powers, but the state does not have the NCAA profile that Mass has with the Beanpot and like 10 teams within 90 minutes of Boston. Losing Lewiston hurt the Q also, OHL has a few teams in the states so it gives them a footprint in those areas. I believe that losing Lewiston didn't have any effect whatsoever. It's the drop down in education money that's made less Americans come here. Americans didn't even know Lewiston existed in the Q outside of the fans of the team. That team would have had to have been there for decades to ever see a tangible return on any investment in the area player wise and even then Maine would still be the destination for most. Was no change before them, with them, or after them outside of a few thousands Americans wishing they still have a high level of hockey in their town. The best example of that is Jon Gillies. Quebec drafts him in 2011. Summer 2012, he's very interested to join Quebec. After the MacKinnon, Drouin, Duclair and Erne draft the previous year, the league has just created the rule about scolarships that prevent teams from offering more than 10K$. The Gillies family doesn't know. The whole family, including the little brother, drive to Quebec so that Jon can sign with the team. Roy then tells them he can't give more than 10k$ in solarship money. The family just say thanks but no thanks, drives back to the US and Jon Gillies signs his National Letter of intention with Providence College.
|
|
|
Post by SteveUL on Jun 5, 2017 17:09:47 GMT -4
London is an exception to the rule ... they have built such a strong program that everybody wants to play there ... Americans and Euros will line up to play there. Don't fault one team for doing their jobs so well that they get rewarded for it annually. Banning trading 1sts and young players will protect teams from their overzealous GMs who trade picks like candy. London has VERY deep pockets, their attendance is up around 10,000 per game plus they are owned/run by former NHLers. They have all the factors in their favor...a team like BC could not compete on the same level as London. Because they built It to be a very desirable place to play. Who wouldn't want to play there ?
|
|
|
Post by hal on Jun 5, 2017 22:59:15 GMT -4
I always wondered why a lot more Americans don't come up and play in the Q ........I simply look at it as anybody who have kids that finish High School and much make a decision .......that being....... not everybody wants or is cut out to go to College . There must be tons of US Kids whether from Michigan , Minnesota or Massachusetts that it might be their dream to play at their State School or any University for that matter but unfortunatly do not qualify academically . Every year there are Top Recruits in CFB and CBB that are heavily recruited but can't satisfy the SAT Requirements , most go off to Junior Colleges and then 2 years later try to catch on with a Div 1 School . Given that same scenario .....wouldn't a Top Tier League like the Q look pretty attractive to a Strong Hockey Player...Not so strong Student ?
|
|
|
Post by sc74 on Jun 5, 2017 23:42:46 GMT -4
I always wondered why a lot more Americans don't come up and play in the Q ........I simply look at it as anybody who have kids that finish High School and much make a decision .......that being....... not everybody wants or is cut out to go to College . There must be tons of US Kids whether from Michigan , Minnesota or Massachusetts that it might be their dream to play at their State School or any University for that matter but unfortunatly do not qualify academically . Every year there are Top Recruits in CFB and CBB that are heavily recruited but can't satisfy the SAT Requirements , most go off to Junior Colleges and then 2 years later try to catch on with a Div 1 School . Given that same scenario .....wouldn't a Top Tier League like the Q look pretty attractive to a Strong Hockey Player...Not so strong Student ? In some NCAA hockey programs, hockey is secondary. You see it more in football but it also exists in hockey. Charlie Coyle is a good example of that. He was failing but if he had been interested in staying 4 years in BU, they would have kept him. I'm also thinking about Noah Hanifin who was drafted by Quebec. He played one year for Boston College as an underager at 17. However, in the month of June, two months before he was supposed to enter BC, he didn't have enough school credits to be accepted in college. In August, he was magically accepted to start school at BC! They must only do that with top players though.
|
|
|
Post by scotiahockey on Jun 5, 2017 23:46:05 GMT -4
I always wondered why a lot more Americans don't come up and play in the Q ........I simply look at it as anybody who have kids that finish High School and much make a decision .......that being....... not everybody wants or is cut out to go to College . There must be tons of US Kids whether from Michigan , Minnesota or Massachusetts that it might be their dream to play at their State School or any University for that matter but unfortunatly do not qualify academically . Every year there are Top Recruits in CFB and CBB that are heavily recruited but can't satisfy the SAT Requirements , most go off to Junior Colleges and then 2 years later try to catch on with a Div 1 School . Given that same scenario .....wouldn't a Top Tier League like the Q look pretty attractive to a Strong Hockey Player...Not so strong Student ? In some NCAA hockey programs, hockey is secondary. You see it more in football but it also exists in hockey. Charlie Coyle is a good example of that. He was failing but if he had been interested in staying 4 years in BU, they would have kept him. I'm also thinking about Noah Hanifin who was drafted by Quebec. He played one year for Boston College as an underager at 17. However, in the month of June, two months before he was supposed to enter BC, he didn't have enough school credits to be accepted in college. In August, he was magically accepted to start school at BC! They must only do that with top players though. If I'm not mistaken wasn't Hanifin taking courses to get the credits he needed to enroll at BC before the season started?
|
|
|
Post by sc74 on Jun 5, 2017 23:57:14 GMT -4
In some NCAA hockey programs, hockey is secondary. You see it more in football but it also exists in hockey. Charlie Coyle is a good example of that. He was failing but if he had been interested in staying 4 years in BU, they would have kept him. I'm also thinking about Noah Hanifin who was drafted by Quebec. He played one year for Boston College as an underager at 17. However, in the month of June, two months before he was supposed to enter BC, he didn't have enough school credits to be accepted in college. In August, he was magically accepted to start school at BC! They must only do that with top players though. If I'm not mistaken wasn't Hanifin taking courses to get the credits he needed to enroll at BC before the season started? We never really knew how he did it but this is what was said. He started the process of graduating early just a few months before enrolling at BC.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 6, 2017 6:53:12 GMT -4
I think the OHL has a big edge with Americans mostly due to the fact that they go after NY and Michigan states, which are less hardcore NCAA than Mass and NH. Michigan and MSU are hockey powers, but the state does not have the NCAA profile that Mass has with the Beanpot and like 10 teams within 90 minutes of Boston. Losing Lewiston hurt the Q also, OHL has a few teams in the states so it gives them a footprint in those areas. I believe that losing Lewiston didn't have any effect whatsoever. It's the drop down in education money that's made less Americans come here. Americans didn't even know Lewiston existed in the Q outside of the fans of the team. That team would have had to have been there for decades to ever see a tangible return on any investment in the area player wise and even then Maine would still be the destination for most. Was no change before them, with them, or after them outside of a few thousands Americans wishing they still have a high level of hockey in their town. I don't think that it's a coincidence that there were more US kids in the Q right after Lewiston came in and it has trickled down the last 2-3 years. Based on the 2017 draft, it looks like that number will drop again in 17-18.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 6, 2017 6:55:27 GMT -4
London has VERY deep pockets, their attendance is up around 10,000 per game plus they are owned/run by former NHLers. They have all the factors in their favor...a team like BC could not compete on the same level as London. Because they built It to be a very desirable place to play. Who wouldn't want to play there ? Some advantages were created by the team, others were already there...size of market and being in the OHL vs Q gives them an edge.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 6, 2017 6:57:41 GMT -4
I always wondered why a lot more Americans don't come up and play in the Q ........I simply look at it as anybody who have kids that finish High School and much make a decision .......that being....... not everybody wants or is cut out to go to College . There must be tons of US Kids whether from Michigan , Minnesota or Massachusetts that it might be their dream to play at their State School or any University for that matter but unfortunatly do not qualify academically . Every year there are Top Recruits in CFB and CBB that are heavily recruited but can't satisfy the SAT Requirements , most go off to Junior Colleges and then 2 years later try to catch on with a Div 1 School . Given that same scenario .....wouldn't a Top Tier League like the Q look pretty attractive to a Strong Hockey Player...Not so strong Student ? In some NCAA hockey programs, hockey is secondary. You see it more in football but it also exists in hockey. Charlie Coyle is a good example of that. He was failing but if he had been interested in staying 4 years in BU, they would have kept him. I'm also thinking about Noah Hanifin who was drafted by Quebec. He played one year for Boston College as an underager at 17. However, in the month of June, two months before he was supposed to enter BC, he didn't have enough school credits to be accepted in college. In August, he was magically accepted to start school at BC! They must only do that with top players though. The whole notion that it's all about education gets blown out of the water the minute a kid that is a hockey/football/basketball star and isn't very smart tries to get in...the wheels get greased.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 6, 2017 7:34:54 GMT -4
I believe that losing Lewiston didn't have any effect whatsoever. It's the drop down in education money that's made less Americans come here. Americans didn't even know Lewiston existed in the Q outside of the fans of the team. That team would have had to have been there for decades to ever see a tangible return on any investment in the area player wise and even then Maine would still be the destination for most. Was no change before them, with them, or after them outside of a few thousands Americans wishing they still have a high level of hockey in their town. I don't think that it's a coincidence that there were more US kids in the Q right after Lewiston came in and it has trickled down the last 2-3 years. Based on the 2017 draft, it looks like that number will drop again in 17-18. There were more Americans because teams like Quebec were allowed to spend more money. Why would a kid from Massachusetts care if the Q has a team in Maine? That doesn't pay for their schooling. Money does.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 6, 2017 7:39:50 GMT -4
I don't think that it's a coincidence that there were more US kids in the Q right after Lewiston came in and it has trickled down the last 2-3 years. Based on the 2017 draft, it looks like that number will drop again in 17-18. There were more Americans because teams like Quebec were allowed to spend more money. Why would a kid from Massachusetts care if the Q has a team in Maine? That doesn't pay for their schooling. Money does. Kids from Mass know where Lewiston is, they surely don't know where Moncton or Saint John is. I'm sure it helped sell the league.
|
|
|
Post by hal on Jun 6, 2017 7:55:35 GMT -4
Of course having a Team in Lewiston helps sell the Q in The New England States but it stills goes back to that unlevel playing field where even if they had been selling out the Lewiston Colisee it would be peanuts compared to the 12000 a night the Remparts were putting in their Colisee.......thus more money for perks ....one being Education .
|
|