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Post by SteveUL on Jun 6, 2017 8:02:51 GMT -4
Because they built It to be a very desirable place to play. Who wouldn't want to play there ? Some advantages were created by the team, others were already there...size of market and being in the OHL vs Q gives them an edge. Well London certainly isn't the biggest potential market in the OHL. Teams in and around Toronto have millions to draw from ... Ottawa as well ... but the whole competing with the NHL and AHL gets in the way. London built their market up by hard work ... and with smart hockey people. Instead of being held of as something to despise ... they should be viewed as the model franchise. Its the same with Halifax ... they have built their market well and have smart hockey people in place. They treat their players well and many have gone on to pro success. How can anybody fault them for having access to players that other teams can't convince to join them ? Just like Charlie Henry said ... "How can you fault me for working harder than you" ... or whatever he said. It will always seem unfair when a team that draws 2300 a night is competing with teams drawing 7500 to 10,000 a night. I will never fault the teams that have worked hard to develop their markets and make their team a place that any kid would want to play for. But many small markets have shown it can be done with patience and wise decision making. Too many teams have been using recycled coaches and GMs, and/or looking to hire a coach that they can get cheap. Your Head Coach is one of the most important investments that a team can make. Look at how many teams can't make their way to the top 5 of the league ... but still have the same braintrust in charge. Every team should be a on four or five year plan where they should be competing for the top of their division at least once in that period. If you aren't getting a shot as a real contender then you are doing something wrong. There are 18 teams ... if you aren't getting to Round 3 of the playoffs once every 4 or 5 years then you are doing something wrong.
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 6, 2017 8:05:52 GMT -4
Of course having a Team in Lewiston helps sell the Q in The New England States but it stills goes back to that unlevel playing field where even if they had been selling out the Lewiston Colisee it would be peanuts compared to the 12000 a night the Remparts were putting in their Colisee.......thus more money for perks ....one being Education . I don't think it did. They couldn't convince their own fans to show up in Lewiston. Why would kids from Mass know anything about Lewiston that is two States away ? In fact, Lewiston's failure actually makes the Q look worse in the eyes of palyers/parents considering their options. Canada is pretty much irrelevant to Americans.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 6, 2017 8:27:18 GMT -4
Some advantages were created by the team, others were already there...size of market and being in the OHL vs Q gives them an edge. Well London certainly isn't the biggest potential market in the OHL. Teams in and around Toronto have millions to draw from ... Ottawa as well ... but the whole competing with the NHL and AHL gets in the way. London built their market up by hard work ... and with smart hockey people. Instead of being held of as something to despise ... they should be viewed as the model franchise. Its the same with Halifax ... they have built their market well and have smart hockey people in place. They treat their players well and many have gone on to pro success. How can anybody fault them for having access to players that other teams can't convince to join them ? Just like Charlie Henry said ... "How can you fault me for working harder than you" ... or whatever he said. It will always seem unfair when a team that draws 2300 a night is competing with teams drawing 7500 to 10,000 a night. I will never fault the teams that have worked hard to develop their markets and make their team a place that any kid would want to play for. But many small markets have shown it can be done with patience and wise decision making. Too many teams have been using recycled coaches and GMs, and/or looking to hire a coach that they can get cheap. Your Head Coach is one of the most important investments that a team can make. Look at how many teams can't make their way to the top 5 of the league ... but still have the same braintrust in charge. Every team should be a on four or five year plan where they should be competing for the top of their division at least once in that period. If you aren't getting a shot as a real contender then you are doing something wrong. There are 18 teams ... if you aren't getting to Round 3 of the playoffs once every 4 or 5 years then you are doing something wrong. Having a junior team in an NHL city is hit and miss. Some have had success while others have flopped. Toronto and Montreal have not supported junior hockey in great numbers in the 20+ years I have followed it closely. Teams have been moving in and out of those markets every few years. London Halifax and Quebec are not big markets because of anything the team did, they are the big fish in a big city. There is no NHL or AHL team to compete with, that is 75% of the equation. No matter how well Bathurst VD BC or RN run their teams they will never have a 300k market to draw from or a 10,000 seat arena to fill up, not to mention huge pool of corporate sponsors. I don't think anybody should "despise" those big markets, just pointing out they have big built in advantages. SJ and Shawinigan won with "recycled" coaches. What teams are you pointing at that can't make it to the top 5 and still have the same brain trust?
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 6, 2017 8:43:44 GMT -4
There were more Americans because teams like Quebec were allowed to spend more money. Why would a kid from Massachusetts care if the Q has a team in Maine? That doesn't pay for their schooling. Money does. Kids from Mass know where Lewiston is, they surely don't know where Moncton or Saint John is. I'm sure it helped sell the league. I'd love to watch a group of kids from outside of Maine try and find Lewiston on a map. I agree they don't know Canada. But watching a kid from Boston tell you where Lewiston is would be like a kid from Halifax trying to pin point Timmons Ontario. They may know it exists, but they have no idea where it is. And nothing that exists there, outside of a University, is going to drive a student athlete to playing somewhere because that place is in the league. Like was discussed previously by people from Quebec it was the rules changes re: money that stopped the American pipeline to the Q. Not Lewiston not having a team.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 6, 2017 8:45:47 GMT -4
Of course having a Team in Lewiston helps sell the Q in The New England States but it stills goes back to that unlevel playing field where even if they had been selling out the Lewiston Colisee it would be peanuts compared to the 12000 a night the Remparts were putting in their Colisee.......thus more money for perks ....one being Education . I don't think it did. They couldn't convince their own fans to show up in Lewiston. Why would kids from Mass know anything about Lewiston that is two States away ? In fact, Lewiston's failure actually makes the Q look worse in the eyes of palyers/parents considering their options. Canada is pretty much irrelevant to Americans. Exactly. Was there even any kids from Maine who played in the Q while Lewiston was here? Or since then? Lewiston didn't bring in anything to the Q presence wise. That's a reason why it was so easy to contract the franchise.
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Post by bois on Jun 6, 2017 8:49:46 GMT -4
I don't even remember Lewiston having any Americans of significance on their roster when they were in the league
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 9:30:57 GMT -4
Some advantages were created by the team, others were already there...size of market and being in the OHL vs Q gives them an edge. Well London certainly isn't the biggest potential market in the OHL. Teams in and around Toronto have millions to draw from ... Ottawa as well ... but the whole competing with the NHL and AHL gets in the way. London built their market up by hard work ... and with smart hockey people. Instead of being held of as something to despise ... they should be viewed as the model franchise. Its the same with Halifax ... they have built their market well and have smart hockey people in place. They treat their players well and many have gone on to pro success. How can anybody fault them for having access to players that other teams can't convince to join them ? Just like Charlie Henry said ... "How can you fault me for working harder than you" ... or whatever he said. It will always seem unfair when a team that draws 2300 a night is competing with teams drawing 7500 to 10,000 a night. I will never fault the teams that have worked hard to develop their markets and make their team a place that any kid would want to play for. But many small markets have shown it can be done with patience and wise decision making. Too many teams have been using recycled coaches and GMs, and/or looking to hire a coach that they can get cheap. Your Head Coach is one of the most important investments that a team can make. Look at how many teams can't make their way to the top 5 of the league ... but still have the same braintrust in charge. Every team should be a on four or five year plan where they should be competing for the top of their division at least once in that period. If you aren't getting a shot as a real contender then you are doing something wrong. There are 18 teams ... if you aren't getting to Round 3 of the playoffs once every 4 or 5 years then you are doing something wrong. London may have good hockey people running the show, but to refer to them as a model for other teams to aspire is beyond the pale. In the last 2 years I've seen them dress 11 American players in a single game. This is a team that took Patrick Kane in the 5th round of the OHL draft. London is where they are because of cash.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 6, 2017 10:04:43 GMT -4
I don't think it did. They couldn't convince their own fans to show up in Lewiston. Why would kids from Mass know anything about Lewiston that is two States away ? In fact, Lewiston's failure actually makes the Q look worse in the eyes of palyers/parents considering their options. Canada is pretty much irrelevant to Americans. Exactly. Was there even any kids from Maine who played in the Q while Lewiston was here? Or since then? Lewiston didn't bring in anything to the Q presence wise. That's a reason why it was so easy to contract the franchise. They had a few. It's not about the kids playing IN Lewiston, it gave the league a footprint down there. Ideally it would be nice to have a team in Mass.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 6, 2017 10:25:07 GMT -4
Exactly. Was there even any kids from Maine who played in the Q while Lewiston was here? Or since then? Lewiston didn't bring in anything to the Q presence wise. That's a reason why it was so easy to contract the franchise. They had a few. It's not about the kids playing IN Lewiston, it gave the league a footprint down there. Ideally it would be nice to have a team in Mass. Who? If you're going to bother saying they had a few, name the few. You love to answer questions while doing no research. Here is the question again: Was there even any kids from Maine who played in the Q while Lewiston was here? Rather then answer generically with a non-answer try actually answering the question with the names to back it up. There really were not that many. And I already know you'll never answer the question. Lewiston had more kids from West of Ontario play for them then kids from Maine.
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Post by bois on Jun 6, 2017 10:37:28 GMT -4
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Post by scotiahockey on Jun 6, 2017 10:46:11 GMT -4
They had a few. It's not about the kids playing IN Lewiston, it gave the league a footprint down there. Ideally it would be nice to have a team in Mass. Who? If you're going to bother saying they had a few, name the few. You love to answer questions while doing no research. Here is the question again: Was there even any kids from Maine who played in the Q while Lewiston was here? Rather then answer generically with a non-answer try actually answering the question with the names to back it up. There really were not that many. And I already know you'll never answer the question. Lewiston had more kids from West of Ontario play for them then kids from Maine. I very easily could be wrong but from the rough check I did, it appears only 2 kids from Maine played for Lewiston... none of which were impact players and in fact only played 1 year in the league. Colby Gilbert, Eric Bonawitz.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 6, 2017 10:49:10 GMT -4
They had a few. It's not about the kids playing IN Lewiston, it gave the league a footprint down there. Ideally it would be nice to have a team in Mass. Who? If you're going to bother saying they had a few, name the few. You love to answer questions while doing no research. Here is the question again: Was there even any kids from Maine who played in the Q while Lewiston was here? Rather then answer generically with a non-answer try actually answering the question with the names to back it up. There really were not that many. And I already know you'll never answer the question. Lewiston had more kids from West of Ontario play for them then kids from Maine. They had Boudreau Staples and Michalik one year. It's not about Maine, which will likely never be a big source of talent for the Q, it's about Mass RI Conn and NH.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 6, 2017 11:33:33 GMT -4
Who? If you're going to bother saying they had a few, name the few. You love to answer questions while doing no research. Here is the question again: Was there even any kids from Maine who played in the Q while Lewiston was here? Rather then answer generically with a non-answer try actually answering the question with the names to back it up. There really were not that many. And I already know you'll never answer the question. Lewiston had more kids from West of Ontario play for them then kids from Maine. They had Boudreau Staples and Michalik one year. It's not about Maine, which will likely never be a big source of talent for the Q, it's about Mass RI Conn and NH. None of them are from Maine. So now it's not about Maine. But it's about Rhode Island which is probably 25% smaller then Maine. Well where are all the kids from Rhode Island at in the Q? We're 14 years after Lewiston starting in the Q. Right now is when we'd be seeing growth and larger amounts of Americans looking to play in the league. We actually see less. And a LOT less.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 6, 2017 11:47:39 GMT -4
They had Boudreau Staples and Michalik one year. It's not about Maine, which will likely never be a big source of talent for the Q, it's about Mass RI Conn and NH. None of them are from Maine. So now it's not about Maine. But it's about Rhode Island which is probably 25% smaller then Maine. Well where are all the kids from Rhode Island at in the Q? We're 14 years after Lewiston starting in the Q. Right now is when we'd be seeing growth and larger amounts of Americans looking to play in the league. We actually see less. And a LOT less. I never said it was about Maine, it's about getting kids from NE coming. Mass is by far the biggest hockey producer, followed by Conn and NH. Maine and RI produce a few. Everybody from Mass knows where Maine is, most don't know where New Brunswick or Nova Scotia, Moncton or Sydney is.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 6, 2017 11:55:25 GMT -4
None of them are from Maine. So now it's not about Maine. But it's about Rhode Island which is probably 25% smaller then Maine. Well where are all the kids from Rhode Island at in the Q? We're 14 years after Lewiston starting in the Q. Right now is when we'd be seeing growth and larger amounts of Americans looking to play in the league. We actually see less. And a LOT less. I never said it was about Maine, it's about getting kids from NE coming. Mass is by far the biggest hockey producer, followed by Conn and NH. Maine and RI produce a few. Everybody from Mass knows where Maine is, most don't know where New Brunswick or Nova Scotia, Moncton or Sydney is. Yet you end up coming back to Maine by saying everyone from Mass knows where it is. So where are all the kids from Mass at now? Shouldn't there be so many that we're tripping over the star spangled banner during training camp? Americans are going to follow money. There's now less of that available from this league then ever....so there's probably less Americans now then there have been in 15 years...it's not a coincidence. Lewiston being in the league while money was freely available may have mattered if they were a huge market. Small town Lewiston isn't registering on any high end kids growing up in New England because those kids still angled their way to Halifax, Moncton, and Quebec over Lewiston while Lewiston was here.
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