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Post by scotiahockey on Jun 6, 2017 12:26:19 GMT -4
I never said it was about Maine, it's about getting kids from NE coming. Mass is by far the biggest hockey producer, followed by Conn and NH. Maine and RI produce a few. Everybody from Mass knows where Maine is, most don't know where New Brunswick or Nova Scotia, Moncton or Sydney is. Yet you end up coming back to Maine by saying everyone from Mass knows where it is. So where are all the kids from Mass at now? Shouldn't there be so many that we're tripping over the star spangled banner during training camp? Americans are going to follow money. There's now less of that available from this league then ever....so there's probably less Americans now then there have been in 15 years...it's not a coincidence. Lewiston being in the league while money was freely available may have mattered if they were a huge market. Small town Lewiston isn't registering on any high end kids growing up in New England because those kids still angled their way to Halifax, Moncton, and Quebec over Lewiston while Lewiston was here. The way I look at it is the Q will likely never have large flocks of Americans coming to the league for 2 reasons. The first reason being that there is no American based Q teams and likely never will be because the hot beds for the Q's territory are renowned NCAA hot beds, I don't think they would support a Q team The second reason being that the kids simply don't want to play here, the USHL and NCAA are what most of these kids grow up wanting to play (besides the NHL), those leagues are as good, if not better than the Q and equally as good of a place to develop. Maybe if a Q team or 2 could get established in the NCAA hot beds, we might see some real big change 10-15 years down the line but unfortunately, I can't see that ever happening.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 6, 2017 12:57:24 GMT -4
I never said it was about Maine, it's about getting kids from NE coming. Mass is by far the biggest hockey producer, followed by Conn and NH. Maine and RI produce a few. Everybody from Mass knows where Maine is, most don't know where New Brunswick or Nova Scotia, Moncton or Sydney is. Yet you end up coming back to Maine by saying everyone from Mass knows where it is. So where are all the kids from Mass at now? Shouldn't there be so many that we're tripping over the star spangled banner during training camp? Americans are going to follow money. There's now less of that available from this league then ever....so there's probably less Americans now then there have been in 15 years...it's not a coincidence. Lewiston being in the league while money was freely available may have mattered if they were a huge market. Small town Lewiston isn't registering on any high end kids growing up in New England because those kids still angled their way to Halifax, Moncton, and Quebec over Lewiston while Lewiston was here. The big markets are still the big markets, not sure why you try and tie it to money. If teams want to give a player money for school they can always do it. The last 2 drafts are the worst ever for US kids, last year, none showed up to play in the Q, this year none went in the top 10 rounds I believe. you're entitled to your opinion, but I think there is a link between having US teams and bringing in US players, it's not the be all and end all, but it helps.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 6, 2017 13:04:48 GMT -4
Yet you end up coming back to Maine by saying everyone from Mass knows where it is. So where are all the kids from Mass at now? Shouldn't there be so many that we're tripping over the star spangled banner during training camp? Americans are going to follow money. There's now less of that available from this league then ever....so there's probably less Americans now then there have been in 15 years...it's not a coincidence. Lewiston being in the league while money was freely available may have mattered if they were a huge market. Small town Lewiston isn't registering on any high end kids growing up in New England because those kids still angled their way to Halifax, Moncton, and Quebec over Lewiston while Lewiston was here. The big markets are still the big markets, not sure why you try and tie it to money. If teams want to give a player money for school they can always do it. Because, for I think the 4th time now, the league capped how much money could be spent. So no they can't always do it. Certainly can't now like they did in the past. They could basically sign blank checks before. Now they can't do more then like 10K. When that rule change happened the amount of Americans being drafted high and reporting in general both fell. So it's very easy to tie it to money. Because there's a direct tie to the money going down and less Americans having interest in playing here.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 6, 2017 13:10:20 GMT -4
Yet you end up coming back to Maine by saying everyone from Mass knows where it is. So where are all the kids from Mass at now? Shouldn't there be so many that we're tripping over the star spangled banner during training camp? Americans are going to follow money. There's now less of that available from this league then ever....so there's probably less Americans now then there have been in 15 years...it's not a coincidence. Lewiston being in the league while money was freely available may have mattered if they were a huge market. Small town Lewiston isn't registering on any high end kids growing up in New England because those kids still angled their way to Halifax, Moncton, and Quebec over Lewiston while Lewiston was here. The way I look at it is the Q will likely never have large flocks of Americans coming to the league for 2 reasons. The first reason being that there is no American based Q teams and likely never will be because the hot beds for the Q's territory are renowned NCAA hot beds, I don't think they would support a Q team The second reason being that the kids simply don't want to play here, the USHL and NCAA are what most of these kids grow up wanting to play (besides the NHL), those leagues are as good, if not better than the Q and equally as good of a place to develop. Maybe if a Q team or 2 could get established in the NCAA hot beds, we might see some real big change 10-15 years down the line but unfortunately, I can't see that ever happening. I agree with you. We either go back to basically an uncapped unlimited spending limits to attract them or (maybe and?) we put hardcore funding into developing 1 or 2 huge US markets by expanding there and hoping they develop into solid markets. Get yourself into a Boston suburb, and into a Manchester, Worcester, Springfield kind of market and in 20 years time you might actually see some return on that investment in terms of players having a more open mind.
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 6, 2017 13:17:06 GMT -4
They had Boudreau Staples and Michalik one year. It's not about Maine, which will likely never be a big source of talent for the Q, it's about Mass RI Conn and NH. None of them are from Maine. So now it's not about Maine. But it's about Rhode Island which is probably 25% smaller then Maine. Well where are all the kids from Rhode Island at in the Q? We're 14 years after Lewiston starting in the Q. Right now is when we'd be seeing growth and larger amounts of Americans looking to play in the league. We actually see less. And a LOT less. Geographically, Maine is the largest of the New England states, while Rhode island looks to be about 10% of the size of Maine. By population ... Maine is at 1.3 million ... while Rhode Island is just slightly over a million. New England has 14.7 million people.
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Post by SteveUL on Jun 6, 2017 13:19:23 GMT -4
The big markets are still the big markets, not sure why you try and tie it to money. If teams want to give a player money for school they can always do it. Because, for I think the 4th time now, the league capped how much money could be spent. So no they can't always do it. Certainly can't now like they did in the past. They could basically sign blank checks before. Now they can't do more then like 10K. When that rule change happened the amount of Americans being drafted high and reporting in general both fell. So it's very easy to tie it to money. Because there's a direct tie to the money going down and less Americans having interest in playing here. Well they CAN give as much as they want to ... but they are not permitted to give more than $10,000. There are lots of ways to give a kid and his family more money, and I expect that most teams would be willing to stretch those rules.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 6, 2017 13:24:02 GMT -4
None of them are from Maine. So now it's not about Maine. But it's about Rhode Island which is probably 25% smaller then Maine. Well where are all the kids from Rhode Island at in the Q? We're 14 years after Lewiston starting in the Q. Right now is when we'd be seeing growth and larger amounts of Americans looking to play in the league. We actually see less. And a LOT less. Geographically, Maine is the largest of the New England states, while Rhode island looks to be about 10% of the size of Maine. By population ... Maine is at 1.3 million ... while Rhode Island is just slightly over a million. New England has 14.7 million people. That's why I chose them in comparing them to Maine. Similar size. Billy chose to say it wasn't about Maine but also places like RI. We don't have any increase from either that I can see.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 6, 2017 13:25:26 GMT -4
The big markets are still the big markets, not sure why you try and tie it to money. If teams want to give a player money for school they can always do it. Because, for I think the 4th time now, the league capped how much money could be spent. So no they can't always do it. Certainly can't now like they did in the past. They could basically sign blank checks before. Now they can't do more then like 10K. When that rule change happened the amount of Americans being drafted high and reporting in general both fell. So it's very easy to tie it to money. Because there's a direct tie to the money going down and less Americans having interest in playing here. The league also capped how much OA's get and teams get around that also.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 6, 2017 13:28:25 GMT -4
Because, for I think the 4th time now, the league capped how much money could be spent. So no they can't always do it. Certainly can't now like they did in the past. They could basically sign blank checks before. Now they can't do more then like 10K. When that rule change happened the amount of Americans being drafted high and reporting in general both fell. So it's very easy to tie it to money. Because there's a direct tie to the money going down and less Americans having interest in playing here. Well they CAN give as much as they want to ... but they are not permitted to give more than $10,000. There are lots of ways to give a kid and his family more money, and I expect that most teams would be willing to stretch those rules. I don't think they would. Windsors fine is enough to deter most Q teams. Almost $500K isn't worth 99.9% of the American kids we're talking about and paying off the Eichel's would be obvious. But they also turned around and rewarded Windsor with a Mem Cup to help them gain all that cash back so there's that as well. My issue with our 10K cap is if the OHL/WHL are playing by different rules which I believe they are. At the end of the day we're trying to compete with them and win. We should all be using very similar recruitment rules.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 6, 2017 13:29:43 GMT -4
Because, for I think the 4th time now, the league capped how much money could be spent. So no they can't always do it. Certainly can't now like they did in the past. They could basically sign blank checks before. Now they can't do more then like 10K. When that rule change happened the amount of Americans being drafted high and reporting in general both fell. So it's very easy to tie it to money. Because there's a direct tie to the money going down and less Americans having interest in playing here. The league also capped how much OA's get and teams get around that also. That has nothing to do with this. Overagers are already veteran players in the CHL 99% of the time who didn't plan on playing as an overager when they came in. That cap isn't making any 15yr olds change their minds. It's just going to push the odd overager into University early.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 6, 2017 13:34:34 GMT -4
The league also capped how much OA's get and teams get around that also. That has nothing to do with this. Overagers are already veteran players in the CHL 99% of the time who didn't plan on playing as an overager when they came in. That cap isn't making any 15yr olds change their minds. It's just going to push the odd overager into University early. As I said, teams get around the cap for OA's, they can get around the cap for education money.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 6, 2017 14:03:05 GMT -4
That has nothing to do with this. Overagers are already veteran players in the CHL 99% of the time who didn't plan on playing as an overager when they came in. That cap isn't making any 15yr olds change their minds. It's just going to push the odd overager into University early. As I said, teams get around the cap for OA's, they can get around the cap for education money. Then why aren't they?
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Post by scotiahockey on Jun 6, 2017 14:05:31 GMT -4
The way I look at it is the Q will likely never have large flocks of Americans coming to the league for 2 reasons. The first reason being that there is no American based Q teams and likely never will be because the hot beds for the Q's territory are renowned NCAA hot beds, I don't think they would support a Q team The second reason being that the kids simply don't want to play here, the USHL and NCAA are what most of these kids grow up wanting to play (besides the NHL), those leagues are as good, if not better than the Q and equally as good of a place to develop. Maybe if a Q team or 2 could get established in the NCAA hot beds, we might see some real big change 10-15 years down the line but unfortunately, I can't see that ever happening. I agree with you. We either go back to basically an uncapped unlimited spending limits to attract them or (maybe and?) we put hardcore funding into developing 1 or 2 huge US markets by expanding there and hoping they develop into solid markets. Get yourself into a Boston suburb, and into a Manchester, Worcester, Springfield kind of market and in 20 years time you might actually see some return on that investment in terms of players having a more open mind. That's really the only way I can see it working. There's just no draw for a Hanifin or Eichel to come play in the league when they can play with the USNTDP and end up in the same place and if for some reason they don't progress as hoped at a young age they still have a full education. Even if they do progress at hoped and are high picks, if they aren't necessarily NHL ready at 18, they can make a lot more money playing in the AHL and against men. The only hope we ever have of seeing these elite US players right now is through them failing out of school or their NHL team asking them to go play in the Q instead of NCAA (which rarely happens in our league). It's a shame that we can't even draw a couple of good Americans each yeah but it's the way it is. Until something changes on the Q end, I think basically every US draft pick on high end guys and even low end guys is a waste.
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Post by sc74 on Jun 6, 2017 22:15:23 GMT -4
There's also a lot of misunderstanding is the US of the education available in the CHL. A lot of NCAA programs and USA Hockey people who prefer seeing their prospects staying in the country. They tell kids and their family going to the CHL is pretty much giving up on school, which isn't the case anymore.
Quebec drafted the first American in the 8th round on Saturday. We're usually used to see Americans drafted in the first 5 rounds.
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Post by sc74 on Jun 6, 2017 22:21:21 GMT -4
Lol. Gotcha.
When they met with Barron and his family, Baie-Comeau were told he wouldn't report there because there's no english school. When Ahern pointed out there was indeed an english school, Barron Sr seemed surprised.
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