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Post by jimmy on Mar 21, 2019 8:58:42 GMT -4
Nope ... the NB teams compete for a league championship to go to the Atlantics ... the two PEI teams play to determine PEI champion to go to Atlantics. NB should have 3 or 4 more teams to improve parity and develop more kids for the next level. Moncton region could easily have two teams. Moncton has been in the League final 13 yrs in a row so something needs to change. Even better ... have one big Maritime Major Midget league. With more and more kids leaving to go to prep school instead of playing major midget as a 15 YO, the NBPEIMM is becoming a weaker league to play in. The weaker the league is, the harder it is to keep top prospects playing in it. Adding more teams would just water down the league even more, adding kids that won't be playing at the next level regardless.
A maritime major midget league would awesome, but I'm guessing logistics would make it impossible. A NB team going to Cape Breton would be a 6 hour drive. That length would mean staying overnight and then the costs of running the team would be huge.
15 year olds leaving for prep school is yet another issue ... in some cases, the guys leaving would be hard pressed to make their local team as it is stacked with 16 and 17 year olds who do not necessarily have the same upside, but are better right now due to being bigger and stronger. Perhaps they need some sort of quota system forcing teams to carry a certain number of 15 year olds ... or alternatively, capping the number of 17 year olds they can carry.
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Post by pinkbeaver on Mar 21, 2019 9:19:43 GMT -4
With more and more kids leaving to go to prep school instead of playing major midget as a 15 YO, the NBPEIMM is becoming a weaker league to play in. The weaker the league is, the harder it is to keep top prospects playing in it. Adding more teams would just water down the league even more, adding kids that won't be playing at the next level regardless.
A maritime major midget league would awesome, but I'm guessing logistics would make it impossible. A NB team going to Cape Breton would be a 6 hour drive. That length would mean staying overnight and then the costs of running the team would be huge.
15 year olds leaving for prep school is yet another issue ... in some cases, the guys leaving would be hard pressed to make their local team as it is stacked with 16 and 17 year olds who do not necessarily have the same upside, but are better right now due to being bigger and stronger. Perhaps they need some sort of quota system forcing teams to carry a certain number of 15 year olds ... or alternatively, capping the number of 17 year olds they can carry. It would be rare that a player leaving for prep school would be cut from a Major midget team. I wouldn't consider them a Q prospect if that was the case. Almost always, the players leaving would be some of the best players on their Major Midget teams as 15 YO's.
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Post by jimmy on Mar 21, 2019 10:16:05 GMT -4
15 year olds leaving for prep school is yet another issue ... in some cases, the guys leaving would be hard pressed to make their local team as it is stacked with 16 and 17 year olds who do not necessarily have the same upside, but are better right now due to being bigger and stronger. Perhaps they need some sort of quota system forcing teams to carry a certain number of 15 year olds ... or alternatively, capping the number of 17 year olds they can carry. It would be rare that a player leaving for prep school would be cut from a Major midget team. I wouldn't consider them a Q prospect if that was the case. Almost always, the players leaving would be some of the best players on their Major Midget teams as 15 YO's.
Not sure that I agree with that ... there are certainly some high profile exceptions, guys like Cameron MacDonald, Peter Reynolds, etc ... but in any given year there are a handful of kids in the Greater Moncton region who are away at prep schools for their 15 year old seasons, and in a lot of cases, the reason they go is because they don't feel like there is a spot for them with the Flyers, and they feel the need to go elsewhere for their draft year. Some of them come back and play for the Flyers at 16 and 17 ... there are a couple of examples of this on this year's Flyers team ... Savoie the goalie and Dube - key guys this year as 16 year olds, but would have been hard pressed for ice time or perhaps even to make the roster as 15 year olds, so they went away, got drafted, and now are back ...
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Post by pinkbeaver on Mar 21, 2019 11:02:23 GMT -4
It would be rare that a player leaving for prep school would be cut from a Major midget team. I wouldn't consider them a Q prospect if that was the case. Almost always, the players leaving would be some of the best players on their Major Midget teams as 15 YO's.
Not sure that I agree with that ... there are certainly some high profile exceptions, guys like Cameron MacDonald, Peter Reynolds, etc ... but in any given year there are a handful of kids in the Greater Moncton region who are away at prep schools for their 15 year old seasons, and in a lot of cases, the reason they go is because they don't feel like there is a spot for them with the Flyers, and they feel the need to go elsewhere for their draft year. Some of them come back and play for the Flyers at 16 and 17 ... there are a couple of examples of this on this year's Flyers team ... Savoie the goalie and Dube - key guys this year as 16 year olds, but would have been hard pressed for ice time or perhaps even to make the roster as 15 year olds, so they went away, got drafted, and now are back ... I will agree that the Goaltender position could be the exception. And I don't think Dube would have been cut from the Flyers.
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Post by jimmy on Mar 21, 2019 12:36:21 GMT -4
Not sure that I agree with that ... there are certainly some high profile exceptions, guys like Cameron MacDonald, Peter Reynolds, etc ... but in any given year there are a handful of kids in the Greater Moncton region who are away at prep schools for their 15 year old seasons, and in a lot of cases, the reason they go is because they don't feel like there is a spot for them with the Flyers, and they feel the need to go elsewhere for their draft year. Some of them come back and play for the Flyers at 16 and 17 ... there are a couple of examples of this on this year's Flyers team ... Savoie the goalie and Dube - key guys this year as 16 year olds, but would have been hard pressed for ice time or perhaps even to make the roster as 15 year olds, so they went away, got drafted, and now are back ... I will agree that the Goaltender position could be the exception. And I don't think Dube would have been cut from the Flyers. Maybe, maybe not ... they ended up carrying five 15 year old forwards last year, which is an abnormally high amount for them. Three of them definitely would have been ahead of him in the pecking order based on bantam performance (Cormier, Bastarache and LeBlanc), and the other two would likely have been in a similar spot (Forsythe and Jackson) ... so while he may have made the team, it appears a big role was not in the cards ... and very well could have been a factor in why he went away to play.
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Post by midgetfan on Mar 22, 2019 7:10:35 GMT -4
Newfoundland went through the same debate back around 2010 when they hosted the Telus Cup. The one team in St. John's was dominating the league so much to the point that the rest of the teams threatened to quit the league if they weren't split. They split and now have 2 teams in St. John's. Although in doing so they sacrificed their competitiveness at the Atlantic level. It's a tough call and it comes down to whether the main goal of a major midget program is development or winning. It can be tough to balance both.
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Post by SteveUL on Mar 22, 2019 8:37:04 GMT -4
Newfoundland went through the same debate back around 2010 when they hosted the Telus Cup. The one team in St. John's was dominating the league so much to the point that the rest of the teams threatened to quit the league if they weren't split. They split and now have 2 teams in St. John's. Although in doing so they sacrificed their competitiveness at the Atlantic level. It's a tough call and it comes down to whether the main goal of a major midget program is development or winning. It can be tough to balance both. IMO, the goal of the league should be development, but the goal of each team has to be a balance between development and winning. So the league has to make rules to ensure they are developing the most players they can for the next level ... which could shrink the Moncton region and add another team to this area. Then it is the job of the teams to fit to the rules and balance development with winning. But running a major Midget team is no easy task and so if you are going to add teams then you have to have competent people in place that are willing to run the franchise, pretty much as a volunteer.
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Post by jimmy on Mar 22, 2019 10:21:41 GMT -4
Newfoundland went through the same debate back around 2010 when they hosted the Telus Cup. The one team in St. John's was dominating the league so much to the point that the rest of the teams threatened to quit the league if they weren't split. They split and now have 2 teams in St. John's. Although in doing so they sacrificed their competitiveness at the Atlantic level. It's a tough call and it comes down to whether the main goal of a major midget program is development or winning. It can be tough to balance both. IMO, the goal of the league should be development, but the goal of each team has to be a balance between development and winning. So the league has to make rules to ensure they are developing the most players they can for the next level ... which could shrink the Moncton region and add another team to this area. Then it is the job of the teams to fit to the rules and balance development with winning. But running a major Midget team is no easy task and so if you are going to add teams then you have to have competent people in place that are willing to run the franchise, pretty much as a volunteer. Yes, the budgets are substantial - likely in the 200k range. For volunteers, it is definitely a big undertaking. There had been rumours 2-3 years back of adding a second Metro Moncton team out of Dieppe, but nothing came of it.
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Post by SteveUL on Mar 24, 2019 8:13:01 GMT -4
Moncton Flyers are NB champs ... won four of the five games.
When and where are the Atlantics this year ?
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Post by WhiteTyAffair on Mar 24, 2019 8:53:17 GMT -4
Moncton Flyers are NB champs ... won four of the five games. When and where are the Atlantics this year ? April 4-7 in Charlottetown.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Mar 24, 2019 21:00:53 GMT -4
IMO, the goal of the league should be development, but the goal of each team has to be a balance between development and winning. So the league has to make rules to ensure they are developing the most players they can for the next level ... which could shrink the Moncton region and add another team to this area. Then it is the job of the teams to fit to the rules and balance development with winning. But running a major Midget team is no easy task and so if you are going to add teams then you have to have competent people in place that are willing to run the franchise, pretty much as a volunteer. Yes, the budgets are substantial - likely in the 200k range. For volunteers, it is definitely a big undertaking. There had been rumours 2-3 years back of adding a second Metro Moncton team out of Dieppe, but nothing came of it. If you put 2 teams in Moncton, there sho0uld be two in Freddy and SJ also, population bases are the same.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2019 11:03:47 GMT -4
Yes, the budgets are substantial - likely in the 200k range. For volunteers, it is definitely a big undertaking. There had been rumours 2-3 years back of adding a second Metro Moncton team out of Dieppe, but nothing came of it. If you put 2 teams in Moncton, there sho0uld be two in Freddy and SJ also, population bases are the same. It would be interesting to know the number of players there are in the hockey associations in each of the teams areas. I have always heard about the huge number of players showing up for team try outs in Moncton area compared to over areas. Not sure if that is fact. It may have to do with closer poximity of comunities and better travel, I don't know. Maybe Moncton is just doing a lot better job developing players and getting them to come out for try outs. If this is the case they should not be penalized by having to ice another team but the league should be helping other areas figure out how to do things better. If their pool of players if bigger and they could ice 2 teams that would probably be better for player development in the whole league.
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Post by scotiahockey on Mar 25, 2019 20:08:37 GMT -4
If you put 2 teams in Moncton, there sho0uld be two in Freddy and SJ also, population bases are the same. It would be interesting to know the number of players there are in the hockey associations in each of the teams areas. I have always heard about the huge number of players showing up for team try outs in Moncton area compared to over areas. Not sure if that is fact. It may have to do with closer poximity of comunities and better travel, I don't know. Maybe Moncton is just doing a lot better job developing players and getting them to come out for try outs. If this is the case they should not be penalized by having to ice another team but the league should be helping other areas figure out how to do things better. If their pool of players if bigger and they could ice 2 teams that would probably be better for player development in the whole league. I think it’s probably a combination of having more means (ie, more money to play major midget) then other areas, more players to pick from and less travel. I know in Nova Scotia, for some of the major midget teams, it can be hard to get guys to want to come out or afford it because it’s long travel to practices, or in many cases will involve guys billeting and then the costs to play at the level are huge. Outside of the top guys, it’s hard to get a borderline player to come out who can play at the level but doesn’t have a future beyond Jr. A at best, when it costs somewhere between 3-5000 for registration plus an added commitment and whatever other costs are associated with the season. A guy can be a 3rd/4th line guy on a Major Midget team that probably won’t even be competitive or can play high school, play a lot more, save a lot more and probably have more fun and end up at the same level as they would at the end of the day. I’m guessing these factors are a lot of the same ones Major Midget teams face in NB.
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Post by countryboy on Mar 25, 2019 22:32:09 GMT -4
Reading this thread, it seems that rules and bureaucracy seem to be something of an inhibitor to the leagues running most effectively, at least from a player development standpoint.
I have long felt that PEI would probably benefit from having one single entry in the NB-PEI midget AAA league rather than the two entries (Kensington and Charlottetown). It seems that usually on PEI, one team is stacked and the other has real struggles being competitive. Kensington is strong once again this year, but the Atlantic hosts from Charlottetown are considerably weaker.
But, from what I understand, Hockey Canada rules state that for teams to compete for the Telus Cup, they need to advance from a playoff in their own province. Thus, PEI must have two different teams that must compete against each other in a provincial playoffs (and not a combined NB-PEI playoff) in order for the PEI winner to be eligible to play in the Telus Cup. Just another example of rules and bureaucracy making it harder to operate strong development programs.
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Post by SteveUL on Mar 26, 2019 10:18:06 GMT -4
Reading this thread, it seems that rules and bureaucracy seem to be something of an inhibitor to the leagues running most effectively, at least from a player development standpoint. I have long felt that PEI would probably benefit from having one single entry in the NB-PEI midget AAA league rather than the two entries (Kensington and Charlottetown). It seems that usually on PEI, one team is stacked and the other has real struggles being competitive. Kensington is strong once again this year, but the Atlantic hosts from Charlottetown are considerably weaker. But, from what I understand, Hockey Canada rules state that for teams to compete for the Telus Cup, they need to advance from a playoff in their own province. Thus, PEI must have two different teams that must compete against each other in a provincial playoffs (and not a combined NB-PEI playoff) in order for the PEI winner to be eligible to play in the Telus Cup. Just another example of rules and bureaucracy making it harder to operate strong development programs. I sort of get that requirement ... otherwise the same team would have a free seat at the Atlantics every year. But ultimately we send a team that represents the Atlantic region, with the Champions of 4 Provinces playing for the right to represent the region. I guess it all works out well since the Atlantics seem to be fairly evenly distributed. Not just one Province representing the region year to year. Has PEI represented the region in recent years ? All I am saying is that Moncton has won the NB league 8 of the last 13 years (might be 9 of 14 now, not sure) ... I think Saint John has one championship in that same time period (were they champions the year they hosted the Telus ? ) ... and Fredericton probably has 4. For quite awhile it was always Fredericton and Moncton in the final and they'd sort of swap back and forth year to year on who would come out champion. Moncton has now won 3 yrs in a row, and Fredericton has not been very competitive over the last few years. Even though I am from Moncton, and my brother played on the Flyers, and my Father Coached the Flyers ... I still see a dominance that is not good for everybody involved.
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