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Post by Jack Bauer on Nov 27, 2019 16:11:47 GMT -4
not to be nitpicky but BrindAmour i am sure said he confirmed two things that happened in Carolina.... one would be kicking Jordan and the other was punching an unnamed player in the head Brind'Amour was not in Rockford to confirm anything about Aliu you gotta keep track of everything and be careful here he also said both incidents were dealt with immediately and satisfactorily by upper management and never happened again to his knowledge My bad on that. When he said he could confirm both I thought Aliu was one of those incidents. His talk about how well it was dealt with makes way more sense to me now though.
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Post by scotiahockey on Nov 27, 2019 23:39:24 GMT -4
not to be nitpicky but BrindAmour i am sure said he confirmed two things that happened in Carolina.... one would be kicking Jordan and the other was punching an unnamed player in the head Brind'Amour was not in Rockford to confirm anything about Aliu you gotta keep track of everything and be careful here he also said both incidents were dealt with immediately and satisfactorily by upper management and never happened again to his knowledge My bad on that. When he said he could confirm both I thought Aliu was one of those incidents. His talk about how well it was dealt with makes way more sense to me now though. In relation the punching accident, I saw tweets from Frank Seravalli that basically said to this point, that Canes player has wished to remain anonymous. Now the way I read it, it makes it sound to me like it’s a current Canes player... although I could be wrong and it may instead just be referring to that player being a former Hurricane. If it is in fact a current player, there is only 4 players (I think) who were there when Jordan was as well. Those being Staal, Pesce, Slavin and McGinn... if it is a current player and a defenceman, like is being reported that narrows it down to Pesce and Slavin. Now this is obviously just me speculating but it would make sense if it’s a current player for why they wouldn’t want to come forward and put their name out there. My other question would be, with all the cameras that float around and are constantly pointed towards the benches (even 4-5 seasons ago) how come no one was able to pick up on this at the time and have it become an issue? I’m sure it’s a society change that has prompted it but even that short time ago, I would have thought it’d have come to someone’s attention in the media and people would have at least been very aware of it, even without the player speaking up.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 28, 2019 8:49:05 GMT -4
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Post by bois on Nov 28, 2019 10:01:53 GMT -4
My bad on that. When he said he could confirm both I thought Aliu was one of those incidents. His talk about how well it was dealt with makes way more sense to me now though. In relation the punching accident, I saw tweets from Frank Seravalli that basically said to this point, that Canes player has wished to remain anonymous. Now the way I read it, it makes it sound to me like it’s a current Canes player... although I could be wrong and it may instead just be referring to that player being a former Hurricane. If it is in fact a current player, there is only 4 players (I think) who were there when Jordan was as well. Those being Staal, Pesce, Slavin and McGinn... if it is a current player and a defenceman, like is being reported that narrows it down to Pesce and Slavin. Now this is obviously just me speculating but it would make sense if it’s a current player for why they wouldn’t want to come forward and put their name out there. My other question would be, with all the cameras that float around and are constantly pointed towards the benches (even 4-5 seasons ago) how come no one was able to pick up on this at the time and have it become an issue? I’m sure it’s a society change that has prompted it but even that short time ago, I would have thought it’d have come to someone’s attention in the media and people would have at least been very aware of it, even without the player speaking up. Doesn't actually matter who the player was..... if that player wants to identify himself go ahead otherwise it is irrelevant.....fact is it's been confirmed it happened..... it's been confirmed it was addressed by team leaders and management at the time...... in this case i think it's a dead issue If it happened in Carolina i think it's pretty easy to speculate how no camera caught it.... not sure they get anywhere near the same level of coverage as most other teams in the league...... I think it's great to have the conversation and change the culture..... i do hope but worry that it goes too far the other way tho..... which is a big problem I have with social media in general as a means to "speak".... player posts vague tweet in response to an issue and every social justice warrior with an account jumps on and names people whether they be the offender or victim and those peoples lives are tarnished..... in some cases for no valid reason
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Post by scotiahockey on Nov 28, 2019 10:10:04 GMT -4
In relation the punching accident, I saw tweets from Frank Seravalli that basically said to this point, that Canes player has wished to remain anonymous. Now the way I read it, it makes it sound to me like it’s a current Canes player... although I could be wrong and it may instead just be referring to that player being a former Hurricane. If it is in fact a current player, there is only 4 players (I think) who were there when Jordan was as well. Those being Staal, Pesce, Slavin and McGinn... if it is a current player and a defenceman, like is being reported that narrows it down to Pesce and Slavin. Now this is obviously just me speculating but it would make sense if it’s a current player for why they wouldn’t want to come forward and put their name out there. My other question would be, with all the cameras that float around and are constantly pointed towards the benches (even 4-5 seasons ago) how come no one was able to pick up on this at the time and have it become an issue? I’m sure it’s a society change that has prompted it but even that short time ago, I would have thought it’d have come to someone’s attention in the media and people would have at least been very aware of it, even without the player speaking up. Doesn't actually matter who the player was..... if that player wants to identify himself go ahead otherwise it is irrelevant.....fact is it's been confirmed it happened..... it's been confirmed it was addressed by team leaders and management at the time...... in this case i think it's a dead issue If it happened in Carolina i think it's pretty easy to speculate how no camera caught it.... not sure they get anywhere near the same level of coverage as most other teams in the league...... I think it's great to have the conversation and change the culture..... i do hope but worry that it goes too far the other way tho..... which is a big problem I have with social media in general as a means to "speak".... player posts vague tweet in response to an issue and every social justice warrior with an account jumps on and names people whether they be the offender or victim and those peoples lives are tarnished..... in some cases for no valid reason Every game, whether it’s a highly publicized team or not has multiple camera angles on them at all times. Not to mention fans in the stands with smart phones who are always on them video taping/taking pictures. If it happened on the bench, I find it very hard to believe that it isn’t on camera, regardless of what rink the game was played in.
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Post by jimmy on Nov 28, 2019 10:11:01 GMT -4
One thing that strikes me in this situation regarding both Peters and Babcock - has ANYONE come out and had their back? We have seen a few lukewarm player comments along the lines of "Personally he was fine with me, I had no issues" - but no former players, fellow coaches, etc ... coming forward to defend their methods or their character - nothing along the lines of "He is a great guy, it is unfortunate that he had a lapse in judgement, but it is not reflective of his character ..." ... other than the lukewarm stuff, the only comments leaking out seem to be along the lines of "not surprised" ...
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 28, 2019 10:14:05 GMT -4
One thing that strikes me in this situation regarding both Peters and Babcock - has ANYONE come out and had their back? We have seen a few lukewarm player comments along the lines of "Personally he was fine with me, I had no issues" - but no former players, fellow coaches, etc ... coming forward to defend their methods or their character - nothing along the lines of "He is a great guy, it is unfortunate that he had a lapse in judgement, but it is not reflective of his character ..." ... other than the lukewarm stuff, the only comments leaking out seem to be along the lines of "not surprised" ... only really Don Cherry everyone else have distances themselves torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-don-cherry-knows-what-mike-babcock-is-going-through
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Post by Jack Bauer on Nov 28, 2019 10:18:06 GMT -4
One thing that strikes me in this situation regarding both Peters and Babcock - has ANYONE come out and had their back? We have seen a few lukewarm player comments along the lines of "Personally he was fine with me, I had no issues" - but no former players, fellow coaches, etc ... coming forward to defend their methods or their character - nothing along the lines of "He is a great guy, it is unfortunate that he had a lapse in judgement, but it is not reflective of his character ..." ... other than the lukewarm stuff, the only comments leaking out seem to be along the lines of "not surprised" ... Nope and that's not shocking as thats usually the case in these situations as people don't want to get caught in the crossfire by trying to defend a friend who hasn't wronged them but may have wronged others. Am I the only one who cringed reading Peters letter to Treliving? Either he has zero remorse and really doesn't care about what he did or he has some of the worse PR advice i've seen in a long time. Didn't even mention the assaults.
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Post by bois on Nov 28, 2019 10:19:38 GMT -4
Same reason why these things go unreported for such a longtime
who wants to come out and endorse someone under intese scrutiny right now and become bombarded with the faceless attacks and onslaught they would be subjected to?
i've seen lots of players say Babcock and Peters were fine to them or their relationships had no such problems.... but they'd be foolish to stand up for what's been confirmed to have happened nor do they necessarily have any reason to do so
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Post by Jack Bauer on Nov 28, 2019 10:21:09 GMT -4
In relation the punching accident, I saw tweets from Frank Seravalli that basically said to this point, that Canes player has wished to remain anonymous. Now the way I read it, it makes it sound to me like it’s a current Canes player... although I could be wrong and it may instead just be referring to that player being a former Hurricane. If it is in fact a current player, there is only 4 players (I think) who were there when Jordan was as well. Those being Staal, Pesce, Slavin and McGinn... if it is a current player and a defenceman, like is being reported that narrows it down to Pesce and Slavin. Now this is obviously just me speculating but it would make sense if it’s a current player for why they wouldn’t want to come forward and put their name out there. My other question would be, with all the cameras that float around and are constantly pointed towards the benches (even 4-5 seasons ago) how come no one was able to pick up on this at the time and have it become an issue? I’m sure it’s a society change that has prompted it but even that short time ago, I would have thought it’d have come to someone’s attention in the media and people would have at least been very aware of it, even without the player speaking up. Doesn't actually matter who the player was..... if that player wants to identify himself go ahead otherwise it is irrelevant.....fact is it's been confirmed it happened..... it's been confirmed it was addressed by team leaders and management at the time...... in this case i think it's a dead issue If it happened in Carolina i think it's pretty easy to speculate how no camera caught it.... not sure they get anywhere near the same level of coverage as most other teams in the league...... I think it's great to have the conversation and change the culture..... i do hope but worry that it goes too far the other way tho..... which is a big problem I have with social media in general as a means to "speak".... player posts vague tweet in response to an issue and every social justice warrior with an account jumps on and names people whether they be the offender or victim and those peoples lives are tarnished..... in some cases for no valid reason Was it addressed though? Karmanos was quoted yesterday as saying that if he knew about it he'd have fired him immediately. Covered up to keep it out of the public light might be a better way of putting it. It seems like Peters operated without consequences following all of this stuff which is a reason it kept happening.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Nov 28, 2019 10:23:31 GMT -4
Same reason why these things go unreported for such a longtime who wants to come out and endorse someone under intese scrutiny right now and become bombarded with the faceless attacks and onslaught they would be subjected to? i've seen lots of players say Babcock and Peters were fine to them or their relationships had no such problems.... but they'd be foolish to stand up for what's been confirmed to have happened nor do they necessarily have any reason to do so Agreed. If a John Tavares or Nik Lidstrom loved Babcock they gain nothing by saying so right now. You can be an asshole to very few people, a nice person to a huge majority, but still be deserving of the asshole label depending on how you've treated those people. People in our criminal justice system haven't wronged every person they've encountered in life. Just an extremely small few in most cases. So a majority speaking out in favor of someone facing a ton of shitty allegations just puts the spotlight on the people speaking out and not the person they're supporting.
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 28, 2019 10:25:23 GMT -4
My biggest questions on the Peters' situation are these.
1) Was Brad Treliving in his background vetting of Peters not aware of anything. Did they just ignore it and pass it off as "part of the game and he is an emotional coach which we want". So what did they know and when and at what point did it concern them. Wrong answer would be Monday night when public opinion erupted.
2) the whole Carolina aspect of this. They too hired him and lived with him and had that bench incident and kept it in house. Is there no onus on ex-employers in the league to perhaps give a heads up to the Flames? The Flames courting of Peters was a badly kept secret that everyone knew was on in fact I recall media discussing his availability while still employed with the Canes that the Flames had reached out to for permission to speak with him. Were the Canes so interested in getting out of any contract obligation that they just said nothing. It just seems to me that the Canes as an organization should be lawyered up on this and not letting their staff discuss it. Even the Flames management has deferred to league investigation as their media out.
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Post by bois on Nov 28, 2019 10:31:48 GMT -4
Doesn't actually matter who the player was..... if that player wants to identify himself go ahead otherwise it is irrelevant.....fact is it's been confirmed it happened..... it's been confirmed it was addressed by team leaders and management at the time...... in this case i think it's a dead issue If it happened in Carolina i think it's pretty easy to speculate how no camera caught it.... not sure they get anywhere near the same level of coverage as most other teams in the league...... I think it's great to have the conversation and change the culture..... i do hope but worry that it goes too far the other way tho..... which is a big problem I have with social media in general as a means to "speak".... player posts vague tweet in response to an issue and every social justice warrior with an account jumps on and names people whether they be the offender or victim and those peoples lives are tarnished..... in some cases for no valid reason Was it addressed though? Karmanos was quoted yesterday as saying that if he knew about it he'd have fired him immediately. Covered up to keep it out of the public light might be a better way of putting it. It seems like Peters operated without consequences following all of this stuff which is a reason it kept happening. I'm going off the interview with Brind'Amour... so unless he's lying it was dealt with immediately... i haven't seen anything from Karmanos can you provide a link? Of course he could be covering his own ass in the fire here by saying that...... Brind'Amour actually would have had the most to gain by Peters being fired and he says it was dealt with and how proud he actually was with how it was dealt with
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 28, 2019 10:33:21 GMT -4
Doesn't actually matter who the player was..... if that player wants to identify himself go ahead otherwise it is irrelevant.....fact is it's been confirmed it happened..... it's been confirmed it was addressed by team leaders and management at the time...... in this case i think it's a dead issue If it happened in Carolina i think it's pretty easy to speculate how no camera caught it.... not sure they get anywhere near the same level of coverage as most other teams in the league...... I think it's great to have the conversation and change the culture..... i do hope but worry that it goes too far the other way tho..... which is a big problem I have with social media in general as a means to "speak".... player posts vague tweet in response to an issue and every social justice warrior with an account jumps on and names people whether they be the offender or victim and those peoples lives are tarnished..... in some cases for no valid reason Every game, whether it’s a highly publicized team or not has multiple camera angles on them at all times. Not to mention fans in the stands with smart phones who are always on them video taping/taking pictures. If it happened on the bench, I find it very hard to believe that it isn’t on camera, regardless of what rink the game was played in. unless you know that you are looking for something and the camera is zoomed in, you would likely miss that. It could have happened during the play, if it was during a commercial break, I doubt the camera men would be panning the bench. Even if they were they may not have zoomed in enough to see it.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 28, 2019 10:37:07 GMT -4
One thing that strikes me in this situation regarding both Peters and Babcock - has ANYONE come out and had their back? We have seen a few lukewarm player comments along the lines of "Personally he was fine with me, I had no issues" - but no former players, fellow coaches, etc ... coming forward to defend their methods or their character - nothing along the lines of "He is a great guy, it is unfortunate that he had a lapse in judgement, but it is not reflective of his character ..." ... other than the lukewarm stuff, the only comments leaking out seem to be along the lines of "not surprised" ... There are a few ways to see that. 1-NHL head coaches are not there to make friends, they are there to win hockey games. I think some of the stuff Babcock, Peters and likely others did crossed certain conduct lines, no doubt. 2-No matter how likeable a coach may be there will always be a few guys that dislike him for whatever reason(playing time role etc) 3-I agree that it’s strange that nobody with clout has come out to defend either, even the meanest coaches have fans out there, guys who think it made them better.
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