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Post by scotiahockey on Jun 17, 2020 10:27:54 GMT -4
Growing revenue and growing popularity are 2 different things. There's no shortage of articles out there pointing out MLB's declining popularity in the social media era. Just google MLB fan decline and you can spend the rest of your day reading many recent articles pointing out how MLB is in a decline...and this was all before covid. MLB is becoming a regional sport according to almost everyone who covers the sport. The fact Tom Brady is on the field for half a game, Lebron for 44 of 48 minutes, and Mike Trout sees 14 pitches over 4 at bats in a 3.5 hour game is not helping MLB catch on with younger people. You can write an article about whatever you want. Thus far MLB has not lost in popularity. The revenue proves it. If they botch this summer then it likely impacts their bottom line more than others. I mean, attendance figures have declined 6 of the last 7 seasons, last season being the lowest since 2003. Season ticket sales are down, I don’t necessarily think it means popularity is down because ticket prices keep going up so it doesn’t mean people can’t or won’t go, it may just mean they can no longer afford it. Increasing revenues though doesn’t mean that the sport isn’t losing popularity either, so much more goes into it then that. It is however, clearly the 3rd largest sport in America (College Football would make baseball 4th), youth aren’t as interested in watching a full game or playing it. I think popularity is probably flat at best, their attendance seems to be pointed that way. Despite being down, it isn’t like they’ve drastically lost fans. I know a lot of people that will watch baseball but they aren’t as interested in watching 3+ hours of it like they used too. It’s not going to attract the casual fan, the way the NBA or NFL might. I don’t often hear let’s go to an MLB game but I’ll often get suggestions to book trips to watch the NFL or NBA. I don’t find the younger crowd wants to watch baseball, it’s a lot easier to round up a crew of people to watch the Super Bowl or an NBA playoff game then it is an MLB playoff game. The NBA and NFL appeal to the younger generation much more then baseball does, whether it’s more interaction on social media, the individual aspect of the NBA, their players and leagues simply market and promote their players better and it leads to more interest from the younger crowd. It’s tough to sell, watching 3+ hours of a sport, when there’s no guarantee of any action, especially for the top players.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 17, 2020 10:28:04 GMT -4
You can write an article about whatever you want. Thus far MLB has not lost in popularity. The revenue proves it. If they botch this summer then it likely impacts their bottom line more than others. Revenue doesn't prove popularity. Clearly this conversation is over your head. Not sure what you're trying to say, but revenue pays the bills not popularity.
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Post by scotiahockey on Jun 17, 2020 10:31:57 GMT -4
Revenue doesn't prove popularity. Clearly this conversation is over your head. Not sure what you're trying to say, but revenue pays the bills not popularity. They’re still two different things though. Lots of revenue doesn’t mean your popularity is increasing or not declining. 100 fans at 75 bucks is the same revenue as 50 fans at 150 but it’s clear that one scenario is much more popular then the other.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 17, 2020 10:34:26 GMT -4
You can write an article about whatever you want. Thus far MLB has not lost in popularity. The revenue proves it. If they botch this summer then it likely impacts their bottom line more than others. I mean, attendance figures have declined 6 of the last 7 seasons, last season being the lowest since 2003. Season ticket sales are down, I don’t necessarily think it means popularity is down because ticket prices keep going up so it doesn’t mean people can’t or won’t go, it may just mean they can no longer afford it. Increasing revenues though doesn’t mean that the sport isn’t losing popularity either, so much more goes into it then that. It is however, clearly the 3rd largest sport in America (College Football would make baseball 4th), youth aren’t as interested in watching a full game or playing it. I think popularity is probably flat at best, their attendance seems to be pointed that way. Despite being down, it isn’t like they’ve drastically lost fans. I know a lot of people that will watch baseball but they aren’t as interested in watching 3+ hours of it like they used too. It’s not going to attract the casual fan, the way the NBA or NFL might. I don’t often hear let’s go to an MLB game but I’ll often get suggestions to book trips to watch the NFL or NBA. I don’t find the younger crowd wants to watch baseball, it’s a lot easier to round up a crew of people to watch the Super Bowl or an NBA playoff game then it is an MLB playoff game. The NBA and NFL appeal to the younger generation much more then baseball does, whether it’s more interaction on social media, the individual aspect of the NBA, their players and leagues simply market and promote their players better and it leads to more interest from the younger crowd. It’s tough to sell, watching 3+ hours of a sport, when there’s no guarantee of any action, especially for the top players. You mean i'm not crazy by dismissing revenue gains as popularity? You mean to tell me WWE isn't as its peak popularity right now? It's revenues have never been higher.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 17, 2020 10:37:10 GMT -4
Revenue doesn't prove popularity. Clearly this conversation is over your head. Not sure what you're trying to say, but revenue pays the bills not popularity. You choose to not be sure. It's a pretty clear and obvious difference. You collect $1 from 10 people and you have $10. You collect $20 from 1 person and you have $20. Your revenue doubles while your interest dropped off by 90%. If you lose 1 out of 10 you still retain 90% of your revenue. You lose 1 out of 1 and you're a non-existing entity. The key in business is to keep people coming back. Once popularity starts to decline...even if revenues rise...you risk a lot of long term pain if you don't try and reverse the popularity decline.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 17, 2020 10:41:03 GMT -4
Not sure what you're trying to say, but revenue pays the bills not popularity. They’re still two different things though. Lots of revenue doesn’t mean your popularity is increasing or not declining. 100 fans at 75 bucks is the same revenue as 50 fans at 150 but it’s clear that one scenario is much more popular then the other. as a business it's about revenue and profits. Same as McDonalds or Amazon. Pricing is part of revenue and profits.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 17, 2020 10:41:53 GMT -4
Not sure what you're trying to say, but revenue pays the bills not popularity. You choose to not be sure. It's a pretty clear and obvious difference. You collect $1 from 10 people and you have $10. You collect $20 from 1 person and you have $20. Your revenue doubles while your interest dropped off by 90%. If you lose 1 out of 10 you still retain 90% of your revenue. You lose 1 out of 1 and you're a non-existing entity. The key in business is to keep people coming back. Once popularity starts to decline...even if revenues rise...you risk a lot of long term pain if you don't try and reverse the popularity decline. If i'm running a business, revenue and profits matter a lot more than being popular.
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Post by scotiahockey on Jun 17, 2020 10:48:11 GMT -4
They’re still two different things though. Lots of revenue doesn’t mean your popularity is increasing or not declining. 100 fans at 75 bucks is the same revenue as 50 fans at 150 but it’s clear that one scenario is much more popular then the other. as a business it's about revenue and profits. Same as McDonalds or Amazon. Pricing is part of revenue and profits. I never said it wasn’t about revenue and profits. That’s the driving force behind 99% of businesses. You want to make as much money as you can, I’m the same way. However, that doesn’t change the fact that while revenue and profits can increase, the popularity of the product isn’t tied to it. You’re now arguing against an entirely different thing then you were before. Popularity can decline and revenues can still go up, if you’re an owner I’m sure you’d love to have 20 thousand fans at 200 bucks, as opposed to 40 thousand fans at 75 bucks and while revenues will certainly be higher, it doesn’t change that you’ve lost popularity.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 17, 2020 10:48:28 GMT -4
They’re still two different things though. Lots of revenue doesn’t mean your popularity is increasing or not declining. 100 fans at 75 bucks is the same revenue as 50 fans at 150 but it’s clear that one scenario is much more popular then the other. as a business it's about revenue and profits. Same as McDonalds or Amazon. Pricing is part of revenue and profits. When revenue shifts from paying customers to a TV outlet....you better hope and pray those paying customers watch you on TV. Growing up in the 80's and 90's MLB was all over the TV. Even in the TFC days (Three F'in Channels for those unaware) you could find Jays games all weekend on CBC and CTV. I remember spending many afternoons/evenings with relatives watching baseball, especially once the hockey playoffs ended. Are any 8 year olds watching baseball now? None that I know of. And it actually couldn't be further from what interests they have. Even the ones who like to play baseball don't watch it. They don't mind seeing highlights...but they're not watching games. So over time as your record TV revenue comes in....eventually that lack of popularity starts to bite you in the ass. Sure, it probably happens slowly, but I don't know if anyone is doubting that it's the worst sport out there re: down time and boredom for a generation craving instant entertainment. So your revenue might be as high as ever (never doubted btw, but as you said, anyone can write anything you want to read : but popularity is taking a huge hit and this will only make it worse at a time where they had a chance to actually start first and maybe actually see some 8,10, 12yr olds watch games during a period they may never see again during that kids life in order to hook him/her in as a fan.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 17, 2020 10:51:19 GMT -4
You choose to not be sure. It's a pretty clear and obvious difference. You collect $1 from 10 people and you have $10. You collect $20 from 1 person and you have $20. Your revenue doubles while your interest dropped off by 90%. If you lose 1 out of 10 you still retain 90% of your revenue. You lose 1 out of 1 and you're a non-existing entity. The key in business is to keep people coming back. Once popularity starts to decline...even if revenues rise...you risk a lot of long term pain if you don't try and reverse the popularity decline. If i'm running a business, revenue and profits matter a lot more than being popular. If your business is relying on TV revenue and you don't grow your sport then you are going to see less revenue eventually. And when that happens, because you've lost fans, winning those fans back becomes extremely hard. You need the popularity to draw the TV revenue. The TV revenue is based on keeping those fans. You lose those fans and eventually you lose your revenue.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 17, 2020 10:54:03 GMT -4
as a business it's about revenue and profits. Same as McDonalds or Amazon. Pricing is part of revenue and profits. I never said it wasn’t about revenue and profits. That’s the driving force behind 99% of businesses. You want to make as much money as you can, I’m the same way. However, that doesn’t change the fact that while revenue and profits can increase, the popularity of the product isn’t tied to it. You’re now arguing against an entirely different thing then you were before. Popularity can decline and revenues can still go up, if you’re an owner I’m sure you’d love to have 20 thousand fans at 200 bucks, as opposed to 40 thousand fans at 75 bucks and while revenues will certainly be higher, it doesn’t change that you’ve lost popularity. This is what he does. He'll talk around it then shift the discussion to being about something else. Been doing it for 20 years. It's impossible to have a discussion about anything when the other side just talks in circles without ever actually acknowledging the other side of it which is what he's done by ignoring that you ultimately need fans to keep coming to keep that revenue coming no matter what outlet the revenue comes from and if anything the less popularity you have and more revenue you draw from outside media the more volatile your business is.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 17, 2020 11:27:46 GMT -4
as a business it's about revenue and profits. Same as McDonalds or Amazon. Pricing is part of revenue and profits. When revenue shifts from paying customers to a TV outlet....you better hope and pray those paying customers watch you on TV. Growing up in the 80's and 90's MLB was all over the TV. Even in the TFC days (Three F'in Channels for those unaware) you could find Jays games all weekend on CBC and CTV. I remember spending many afternoons/evenings with relatives watching baseball, especially once the hockey playoffs ended. Are any 8 year olds watching baseball now? None that I know of. And it actually couldn't be further from what interests they have. Even the ones who like to play baseball don't watch it. They don't mind seeing highlights...but they're not watching games. So over time as your record TV revenue comes in....eventually that lack of popularity starts to bite you in the ass. Sure, it probably happens slowly, but I don't know if anyone is doubting that it's the worst sport out there re: down time and boredom for a generation craving instant entertainment. So your revenue might be as high as ever (never doubted btw, but as you said, anyone can write anything you want to read : but popularity is taking a huge hit and this will only make it worse at a time where they had a chance to actually start first and maybe actually see some 8,10, 12yr olds watch games during a period they may never see again during that kids life in order to hook him/her in as a fan. Baseball used to rely a lot on fans in the seats, they are moving more towards the NFL model in that a higher percentage of revenues are from TV. there are 4-5 teams that could pay their bills with just their TV deals like boston NYY NYM LA etc the nice thing about baseball on TV is you can do other things, flick back and forth between games.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 17, 2020 11:28:34 GMT -4
I never said it wasn’t about revenue and profits. That’s the driving force behind 99% of businesses. You want to make as much money as you can, I’m the same way. However, that doesn’t change the fact that while revenue and profits can increase, the popularity of the product isn’t tied to it. You’re now arguing against an entirely different thing then you were before. Popularity can decline and revenues can still go up, if you’re an owner I’m sure you’d love to have 20 thousand fans at 200 bucks, as opposed to 40 thousand fans at 75 bucks and while revenues will certainly be higher, it doesn’t change that you’ve lost popularity. This is what he does. He'll talk around it then shift the discussion to being about something else. Been doing it for 20 years. It's impossible to have a discussion about anything when the other side just talks in circles without ever actually acknowledging the other side of it which is what he's done by ignoring that you ultimately need fans to keep coming to keep that revenue coming no matter what outlet the revenue comes from and if anything the less popularity you have and more revenue you draw from outside media the more volatile your business is. i never shifted the dicussion, you tried to make it about "popularity" on social media. money pays the bills.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 17, 2020 12:07:57 GMT -4
This is what he does. He'll talk around it then shift the discussion to being about something else. Been doing it for 20 years. It's impossible to have a discussion about anything when the other side just talks in circles without ever actually acknowledging the other side of it which is what he's done by ignoring that you ultimately need fans to keep coming to keep that revenue coming no matter what outlet the revenue comes from and if anything the less popularity you have and more revenue you draw from outside media the more volatile your business is. i never shifted the dicussion, you tried to make it about "popularity" on social media. money pays the bills. Stop reading partial sentences and read all of them. This is what I said: There's no shortage of articles out there pointing out MLB's declining popularity in the social media era. Talking about popularity ON social media and popularity IN the social media era are 2 drastically different statements. Like not even close to the same meaning.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 17, 2020 12:16:51 GMT -4
i never shifted the dicussion, you tried to make it about "popularity" on social media. money pays the bills. Stop reading partial sentences and read all of them. This is what I said: There's no shortage of articles out there pointing out MLB's declining popularity in the social media era. Talking about popularity ON social media and popularity IN the social media era are 2 drastically different statements. Like not even close to the same meaning. what do articles have to do with making money? The numbers show that baseball has tripled it's revenue in 15 or 16 years. that's the number that counts, not the amount of articles jack bauer read.
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