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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 21, 2021 12:59:29 GMT -4
they keep rolling along just fine again if i'm a fan...... (and i am casually they'd be in my top 5 fav teams right now) i'm happy as hell with how things have played out in Vegas thus far there is no cap hell and if they see their center depth as a problem.... they have proven they will address things... and saying their defense is a weakness... well that takes the cake really..... it's not a weakness..... it's a strength Las Vegas has played 5 games against Anaheim and Arizona, two rebuilding teams, not exactly a measuring stick for contenders.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 21, 2021 14:04:53 GMT -4
And everyone has that thin line to call players up...or close to 2/3 of the league does anyway. Colorado had to move Cole out so they can use Byram. Toronto had to move money around to get Robertson in the lineup. Montreal only has a 21 man roster. 10 teams are in LTIR. It's either we're all in cap hell...or nobody is. Being in LTIR means you can go above the cap, not that you are necessarily in cap trouble. TB NEEDED it to get under the cap, but most others were not in cap trouble. St.L used it to sign Hoffman to help replace Steen and Tarasenko for example. Your last sentence makes no sense, no two teams are exactly alike. You're not in cap trouble if you need LTIR to stay under the salary cap? My sentence makes perfect sense. A team with 700K in cap space and a 21 man roster with 23 available is in cap hell if a team with 0 cap space and a 23 man roster is in cap hell. It's easier for the 23 person roster to replace a body in event of an injury. The 21 man likely needs waivers to get under. So as i've said for weeks...either all are in cap hell or nobody is. To try and sell only Vegas or TB as being in cap hell when so many teams are facing the exact same situations is just purposely being dense.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 21, 2021 14:08:20 GMT -4
they keep rolling along just fine again if i'm a fan...... (and i am casually they'd be in my top 5 fav teams right now) i'm happy as hell with how things have played out in Vegas thus far there is no cap hell and if they see their center depth as a problem.... they have proven they will address things... and saying their defense is a weakness... well that takes the cake really..... it's not a weakness..... it's a strength Las Vegas has played 5 games against Anaheim and Arizona, two rebuilding teams, not exactly a measuring stick for contenders. They're 5-0. As usual you only pick out who the team has played when you want to discount their success. 5-0 is 5-0 no matter who you've played in this setup. I'm sure you'll shit all over the Habs next 5-0 run by pointing out who they played.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 21, 2021 14:33:15 GMT -4
Being in LTIR means you can go above the cap, not that you are necessarily in cap trouble. TB NEEDED it to get under the cap, but most others were not in cap trouble. St.L used it to sign Hoffman to help replace Steen and Tarasenko for example. Your last sentence makes no sense, no two teams are exactly alike. You're not in cap trouble if you need LTIR to stay under the salary cap? My sentence makes perfect sense. A team with 700K in cap space and a 21 man roster with 23 available is in cap hell if a team with 0 cap space and a 23 man roster is in cap hell. It's easier for the 23 person roster to replace a body in event of an injury. The 21 man likely needs waivers to get under. So as i've said for weeks...either all are in cap hell or nobody is. To try and sell only Vegas or TB as being in cap hell when so many teams are facing the exact same situations is just purposely being dense. I never said TB and LV were the only two, not sure where you got that. Again, being in LTIR doesn't mean a team is in cap hell, just that they can replace an injured player(s).
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 21, 2021 14:35:00 GMT -4
Las Vegas has played 5 games against Anaheim and Arizona, two rebuilding teams, not exactly a measuring stick for contenders. They're 5-0. As usual you only pick out who the team has played when you want to discount their success. 5-0 is 5-0 no matter who you've played in this setup. I'm sure you'll shit all over the Habs next 5-0 run by pointing out who they played. Their success will be measured on how they do at the end of the year, not the first 5 games. I doubt you would be changing your tune if they were 0-5, so stop trolling.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 23, 2021 9:35:39 GMT -4
Sounds like a Dubois trade is imminent.
I was thinking of the Laine/Roslovic angle from day 1, makes a ton of sense unless JKK can get a prime C back. that being said, not sure Laine will love Tortellini.
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Post by jimmy on Jan 24, 2021 9:44:54 GMT -4
Sounds like a Dubois trade is imminent. I was thinking of the Laine/Roslovic angle from day 1, makes a ton of sense unless JKK can get a prime C back. that being said, not sure Laine will love Tortellini. Quite the blockbuster ... I like the return for Columbus, especially given how obvious it was that they had to make a move ... only downside is if they can't sign Laine long-term.
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Jan 24, 2021 22:48:24 GMT -4
For all the smack Tortorella takes on this board he is in the top handful of tenure with the same team. This is his 5th year in Columbus. That's a long time as the avg coach stint in NHL is now down to <2.4 seasons.
He and Maurice (2 coaches of these teams in Dubois-Laine trade) have seniority and tenure. But only Maurice, Sullivan, Blashill & Cooper have been in their current jobs longer than Torts.
Torts expects accountability. While the media doesnt like him, and fans dont like him he gets pretty good reviews from several past players who succeeded and improved because of him. He helps players be better.
Columbus has done very well under Torts. With a revolving roster. Players like Jones and Werenski have excelled there. They had 108 points one of those seasons in a tough division. They knocked off TB and TOR in playoff series/bubble playoff series.
No coach lasts forever. No coach gets every player and vice versa. Not every coach wins with the media.
But Torts is nowhere close to losing the Columbus job. And his team looked really good vs TB Saturday. The reasons players leave Columbus are many. But in most cases its 2 or 3 reasons that arent coaching.
Columbus is the perfect market for Torts.
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Post by bois on Jan 25, 2021 10:17:01 GMT -4
For all the smack Tortorella takes on this board he is in the top handful of tenure with the same team. This is his 5th year in Columbus. That's a long time as the avg coach stint in NHL is now down to <2.4 seasons. He and Maurice (2 coaches of these teams in Dubois-Laine trade) have seniority and tenure. But only Maurice, Sullivan, Blashill & Cooper have been in their current jobs longer than Torts. Torts expects accountability. While the media doesnt like him, and fans dont like him he gets pretty good reviews from several past players who succeeded and improved because of him. He helps players be better. Columbus has done very well under Torts. With a revolving roster. Players like Jones and Werenski have excelled there. They had 108 points one of those seasons in a tough division. They knocked off TB and TOR in playoff series/bubble playoff series. No coach lasts forever. No coach gets every player and vice versa. Not every coach wins with the media. But Torts is nowhere close to losing the Columbus job. And his team looked really good vs TB Saturday. The reasons players leave Columbus are many. But in most cases its 2 or 3 reasons that arent coaching. Columbus is the perfect market for Torts. totally agree with one exception the media loves Tortorella...... it's him who doesn't like them as for the trade itself...... i think Winnipeg are big winners..... Roslovic was never signing and Laine was never signing longterm..... getting Dubois to slide in the middle behind Scheiffelle and ahead of Stastny gives them the best center punch in the league IMO dunno who Laine will play with in Columbus.... but he will get his chance to be the guy down there see how it goes
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Post by bois on Jan 25, 2021 10:17:38 GMT -4
Sounds like a Dubois trade is imminent. I was thinking of the Laine/Roslovic angle from day 1, makes a ton of sense unless JKK can get a prime C back. that being said, not sure Laine will love Tortellini. if you're trying to be Don Cherry it's not really funny you should stop
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 25, 2021 10:27:19 GMT -4
Sounds like a Dubois trade is imminent. I was thinking of the Laine/Roslovic angle from day 1, makes a ton of sense unless JKK can get a prime C back. that being said, not sure Laine will love Tortellini. if you're trying to be Don Cherry it's not really funny you should stop The last guy I want to be is Don Cherry.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 25, 2021 10:37:27 GMT -4
For all the smack Tortorella takes on this board he is in the top handful of tenure with the same team. This is his 5th year in Columbus. That's a long time as the avg coach stint in NHL is now down to <2.4 seasons. He and Maurice (2 coaches of these teams in Dubois-Laine trade) have seniority and tenure. But only Maurice, Sullivan, Blashill & Cooper have been in their current jobs longer than Torts. Torts expects accountability. While the media doesnt like him, and fans dont like him he gets pretty good reviews from several past players who succeeded and improved because of him. He helps players be better. Columbus has done very well under Torts. With a revolving roster. Players like Jones and Werenski have excelled there. They had 108 points one of those seasons in a tough division. They knocked off TB and TOR in playoff series/bubble playoff series. No coach lasts forever. No coach gets every player and vice versa. Not every coach wins with the media. But Torts is nowhere close to losing the Columbus job. And his team looked really good vs TB Saturday. The reasons players leave Columbus are many. But in most cases its 2 or 3 reasons that arent coaching. Columbus is the perfect market for Torts. totally agree with one exception the media loves Tortorella...... it's him who doesn't like them as for the trade itself...... i think Winnipeg are big winners..... Roslovic was never signing and Laine was never signing longterm..... getting Dubois to slide in the middle behind Scheiffelle and ahead of Stastny gives them the best center punch in the league IMO dunno who Laine will play with in Columbus.... but he will get his chance to be the guy down there see how it goes Dubois is on record saying that Tortorella wasn't the problem in CBJ, so who know, but based on his effort level recently, regardless of who the coach is, that has to be a concern if you are Winnipeg. I'm sure he will do great the first 2-3 months, but once the "newness" wears off will he go back to dogging it? He will be behind Scheifele in WPG which helps in terms of matchups but will cost him ice time. Some guys thrive in that role while others need more minutes. Laine needs somebody to get him the puck, though he was more complete last year, maybe that's Domi? Give them a guy like Foligno or Jenner on the other side who can work the corners? I think the PP with Werenski and Jones is where he can really do damage, won't have to play behind Connor and Wheeler, but will get better shutdown D. Roslovic is young enough that he could develop into a #2 center, at worst #3, nice asset to have. Even if Laine doesn't sign long term in CBJ, I think he has big value that they can use next summer, though it sends a bad message if he leaves after Panarin Bobrovsky and Dubois...
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Jan 25, 2021 10:43:36 GMT -4
totally agree with one exception the media loves Tortorella...... it's him who doesn't like them as for the trade itself...... i think Winnipeg are big winners..... Roslovic was never signing and Laine was never signing longterm..... getting Dubois to slide in the middle behind Scheiffelle and ahead of Stastny gives them the best center punch in the league IMO dunno who Laine will play with in Columbus.... but he will get his chance to be the guy down there see how it goes Dubois is on record saying that Tortorella wasn't the problem in CBJ, so who know, but based on his effort level recently, regardless of who the coach is, that has to be a concern if you are Winnipeg. I'm sure he will do great the first 2-3 months, but once the "newness" wears off will he go back to dogging it? He will be behind Scheifele in WPG which helps in terms of matchups but will cost him ice time. Some guys thrive in that role while others need more minutes. Laine needs somebody to get him the puck, though he was more complete last year, maybe that's Domi? Give them a guy like Foligno or Jenner on the other side who can work the corners? I think the PP with Werenski and Jones is where he can really do damage, won't have to play behind Connor and Wheeler, but will get better shutdown D. Roslovic is young enough that he could develop into a #2 center, at worst #3, nice asset to have. Even if Laine doesn't sign long term in CBJ, I think he has big value that they can use next summer, though it sends a bad message if he leaves after Panarin Bobrovsky and Dubois... I think since Dubois father is a coach for the Jets AHL squad he will be motivated. That extra mentorship that close is rare in the sport. Moose play in Winnipeg too.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 25, 2021 11:12:50 GMT -4
totally agree with one exception the media loves Tortorella...... it's him who doesn't like them as for the trade itself...... i think Winnipeg are big winners..... Roslovic was never signing and Laine was never signing longterm..... getting Dubois to slide in the middle behind Scheiffelle and ahead of Stastny gives them the best center punch in the league IMO dunno who Laine will play with in Columbus.... but he will get his chance to be the guy down there see how it goes Dubois is on record saying that Tortorella wasn't the problem in CBJ, so who know, but based on his effort level recently, regardless of who the coach is, that has to be a concern if you are Winnipeg. I'm sure he will do great the first 2-3 months, but once the "newness" wears off will he go back to dogging it? He will be behind Scheifele in WPG which helps in terms of matchups but will cost him ice time. Some guys thrive in that role while others need more minutes. Laine needs somebody to get him the puck, though he was more complete last year, maybe that's Domi? Give them a guy like Foligno or Jenner on the other side who can work the corners? I think the PP with Werenski and Jones is where he can really do damage, won't have to play behind Connor and Wheeler, but will get better shutdown D. Roslovic is young enough that he could develop into a #2 center, at worst #3, nice asset to have. Even if Laine doesn't sign long term in CBJ, I think he has big value that they can use next summer, though it sends a bad message if he leaves after Panarin Bobrovsky and Dubois... What is he on the record as saying his issue was? I've heard every interview he did about it i'm pretty sure and he never let much out about why he wanted out so badly. Torts certainly seemed convinced his coaching style/personality was the clash there. But like I said...if you've seen/heard something else please share it. I think people are only evaluating based on Laine's ceiling while ignore that many scouts had issues with his personality leading up to the draft. He's very much a millenial athlete...heavy into video games. And not the easiest guy to coach in spite of all the talent. He's also arbitration eligible and going to likely come in around $9 million where Winnipeg probably gets a better AAV on Dubois on a long term deal where Columbus might be turning around in a few months and looking for a new home for Laine if he won't commit long term. To go from Dubois down the middle for a decade as a #1 C to Roslovic and kids/picks would be a big blow. I'm sure they turn Laine into something good but he didn't like Winnipeg and in a lot of ways just for traded the the Winnipeg of the US NHL markets in Columbus so I don't think him not wanting to stay there would surprise anyone. I think Laine ends up in a New York style big market situation when all is said and done. So still a lot to come before you can really evaluate this as the next 2 years will determine a lot depending on where the players end up long term.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 25, 2021 11:15:41 GMT -4
Dubois is on record saying that Tortorella wasn't the problem in CBJ, so who know, but based on his effort level recently, regardless of who the coach is, that has to be a concern if you are Winnipeg. I'm sure he will do great the first 2-3 months, but once the "newness" wears off will he go back to dogging it? He will be behind Scheifele in WPG which helps in terms of matchups but will cost him ice time. Some guys thrive in that role while others need more minutes. Laine needs somebody to get him the puck, though he was more complete last year, maybe that's Domi? Give them a guy like Foligno or Jenner on the other side who can work the corners? I think the PP with Werenski and Jones is where he can really do damage, won't have to play behind Connor and Wheeler, but will get better shutdown D. Roslovic is young enough that he could develop into a #2 center, at worst #3, nice asset to have. Even if Laine doesn't sign long term in CBJ, I think he has big value that they can use next summer, though it sends a bad message if he leaves after Panarin Bobrovsky and Dubois... I think since Dubois father is a coach for the Jets AHL squad he will be motivated. That extra mentorship that close is rare in the sport. Moose play in Winnipeg too. Also veteran leadership surrounding him. He was pressured to be "the guy" as a #3 overall pick. Now he falls into a 2C with a veteran #1 C and veteran wingers. Much better situation for him to keep developing as a player. Maurice vs Torts will also be a huge difference in personality and style. Maurice is hard on players but usually keeps it from being a spectacle like Torts clashes seem to end up as.
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